00:00:00 --- log: started forth/12.06.14 00:01:32 --- join: phirsch (~phirsch@xdsl-89-0-68-171.netcologne.de) joined #forth 00:01:33 --- mode: ChanServ set +v phirsch 00:44:19 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 00:49:48 --- quit: fantazo (Remote host closed the connection) 00:53:00 --- join: impomatic (~digital_w@87.115.178.251) joined #forth 00:53:00 --- mode: ChanServ set +v impomatic 00:54:35 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #forth 00:54:35 --- mode: ChanServ set +v karswell 01:02:18 --- nick: impomatic -> john_metcalf 01:15:36 --- join: ttmrichter (~ttmrichte@122.228.67.11) joined #forth 01:15:37 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ttmrichter 01:23:22 --- quit: john_metcalf (Quit: http://RetroProgramming.com) 01:56:54 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 02:07:07 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #forth 02:07:07 --- mode: ChanServ set +v karswell 02:32:56 --- join: john_metcalf (~digital_w@87.115.178.251) joined #forth 02:32:56 --- mode: ChanServ set +v john_metcalf 02:35:03 Does everyone consider state-smart words to be bad? 02:42:00 I kinda do, yes. 02:42:14 * ttmrichter vaguely recalls a pretty blistering essay on the topic. Maybe in Forth Dimensions? 02:52:10 The http://forth.org server seems to be constantly up and down. I'll search for the article when it's up again :-) 02:53:13 john_metcalf: That's why I made local copies of all Forth Dimensions. :) 02:57:28 john_metcalf: Hang on, I have Forth Dimensions available where I can share it I think. 03:20:44 --- quit: jyfl987 (Quit: leaving) 03:23:51 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 03:34:09 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #forth 03:34:09 --- mode: ChanServ set +v karswell 04:23:04 --- quit: karswell (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 04:29:51 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #forth 04:29:51 --- mode: ChanServ set +v karswell 04:44:49 --- quit: karswell (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 04:59:47 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #forth 04:59:47 --- mode: ChanServ set +v karswell 05:50:27 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 05:53:46 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #forth 05:53:46 --- mode: ChanServ set +v karswell 06:25:52 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@static-68-179-124-161.ptr.terago.net) joined #forth 06:25:52 --- mode: ChanServ set +v nighty^ 06:43:54 regarding state smart words, I personally have no problem with them, provided their functionality is documented 06:50:57 --- quit: john_metcalf (Quit: john_metcalf) 07:12:49 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@91.119.112.29) joined #forth 07:12:49 --- mode: ChanServ set +v fantazo 07:59:55 --- quit: ttmrichter (Quit: Leaving) 09:00:08 --- join: DocPlatypus (~skquinn@108-75-59-67.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 09:00:08 --- mode: ChanServ set +v DocPlatypus 09:10:40 --- quit: fantazo (Remote host closed the connection) 09:18:50 --- join: Kumul (~Kumul@67.224.254.22) joined #forth 09:19:01 --- join: Monevii (~Monevii@67.224.254.22) joined #forth 09:19:06 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Kumul 09:19:06 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Monevii 09:20:31 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 09:20:31 --- mode: ChanServ set +v MayDaniel 09:23:00 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@91.119.112.29) joined #forth 09:23:00 --- mode: ChanServ set +v fantazo 10:39:09 --- quit: MayDaniel (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 10:44:18 --- quit: fantazo (Remote host closed the connection) 11:07:05 --- quit: DocPlatypus (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 11:13:30 --- join: DocPlatypus (~skquinn@108-75-59-67.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 11:13:30 --- mode: ChanServ set +v DocPlatypus 12:13:07 Nothing is particularly problematic when your project is small. 12:13:22 Some people manage to write programs in Brainfuck. 12:14:00 --- quit: phirsch (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 12:18:11 --- join: phirsch (~phirsch@xdsl-89-0-65-81.netcologne.de) joined #forth 12:18:11 --- mode: ChanServ set +v phirsch 12:22:08 --- join: john_metcalf (~digital_w@87.115.178.251) joined #forth 12:22:08 --- mode: ChanServ set +v john_metcalf 13:00:32 --- join: impomatic (~chatzilla@87.115.178.251) joined #forth 13:00:33 --- mode: ChanServ set +v impomatic 13:01:02 I'm ... not sure what that was even in response to 13:01:18 but you have to be a little crazy to write in something like Brainfuck, willingly 13:02:03 re: state smart words 13:02:21 if used judiciously, they aren't a problem, but they do need to be documented well like crc says 13:02:30 I usually over-comment my code 13:03:34 There's a programming game in Brainfuck, BF Joust. It's quite popular. http://programminggames.org/BF-Joust.ashx 13:03:47 bleh, I'll pass 13:04:18 Someone ought to create a Forth programming game. 13:06:43 I've seen a few comments about state smart words being the work of the devil. I wasn't sure how many people agree... 13:07:51 The problem is that to understand why state smart words are bad 13:08:07 you need to have working experience with rather large code base. 13:08:44 If you don't pass tokens of state smart words, and don't inline code, 13:08:57 then you have little chances of getting into troubles. 13:09:33 First of all, because those requirements mean that your 13:09:33 state smart words are of "first order", you don't combine them. 13:10:27 What do you mean by "first order"? 13:10:54 --- quit: impomatic (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0/20120601045813]) 13:10:55 You don't check STATE value in nested words. 13:11:12 And you don't use COMPILE, on them. 13:11:57 Once you start doing such "higher order" operations as COMPILE, 13:12:21 you'll understand how you can get into really big troubles. 13:20:13 This issue is related to famous POSTPONE in some aspects. 13:22:06 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 13:22:06 --- mode: ChanServ set +v MayDaniel 13:35:33 I'm struggling to implement DOES>. Specifically to pass the code following DOES> to the DODOES routine :-( 13:38:36 * ASau shrugs. 13:44:40 --- quit: MayDaniel (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:45:31 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 13:45:32 --- mode: ChanServ set +v MayDaniel 13:45:47 The only working DOES> I've written feels like cheating somehow. It places a short machine code routine after DODOES and before the procedure which follows DOES>. :-( 13:46:24 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@91.119.112.29) joined #forth 13:46:24 --- mode: ChanServ set +v fantazo 14:04:15 --- quit: MayDaniel (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:38:10 --- quit: ASau (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:38:41 --- join: ASau (~user@95-26-139-8.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 14:38:41 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ASau 14:58:10 --- quit: ASau (Quit: reboot!) 15:04:01 --- join: ASau (~user@95-26-139-8.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 15:04:08 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ASau 15:08:26 john_metcalf: as long as it works, I wouldn't call it cheating. 15:09:16 Just ugly then :-) 15:09:38 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 15:10:02 --- quit: crc (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 15:10:37 --- join: ASau (~user@95-26-139-8.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 15:10:37 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ASau 15:22:33 --- join: fantazo_ (~fantazo@91.119.238.65) joined #forth 15:22:33 --- mode: ChanServ set +v fantazo_ 15:24:39 --- quit: fantazo (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 15:34:53 --- quit: nighty^ (Remote host closed the connection) 15:38:55 --- quit: ASau (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:41:24 --- join: ASau (~user@95-26-139-8.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 15:41:24 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ASau 15:54:15 --- quit: ASau (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:55:26 --- join: ASau (~user@95-26-139-8.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 15:55:26 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ASau 16:12:51 --- quit: phirsch (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 16:13:05 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 16:16:58 --- join: ASau (~user@95-26-139-8.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 16:16:58 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ASau 16:20:12 --- join: phirsch (~phirsch@xdsl-89-0-65-81.netcologne.de) joined #forth 16:20:12 --- mode: ChanServ set +v phirsch 16:30:51 --- join: RodgerTheGreat (~RodgerThe@71-13-215-128.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) joined #forth 16:30:51 --- mode: ChanServ set +v RodgerTheGreat 16:31:30 john_metcalf: maybe I should rephrase, as long as it works and isn't likely to break all of a sudden in the future 16:31:43 Forth is all about tricks like that 16:31:57 now my interest is piqued 16:33:12 RodgerTheGreat: he was referring to a crude way of implementing DOES> 16:33:22 oh? 16:34:09 yeah 16:34:10 see the logs 16:35:35 john_metcalf: I made a forth programming game 16:35:46 although probably in a more specific sense than you meant 16:36:23 it also uses my own goofy dialect, but that would be easy to amend: https://github.com/JohnEarnest/Mako/tree/master/games/Warrior 16:44:40 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 16:54:55 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #forth 16:54:55 --- mode: ChanServ set +v karswell 16:55:36 --- join: crc (~crc@li125-93.members.linode.com) joined #forth 16:55:36 --- mode: ChanServ set +v crc 17:05:04 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 17:12:20 --- join: ttmrichter (~ttmrichte@122.228.67.11) joined #forth 17:12:20 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ttmrichter 17:15:19 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #forth 17:15:19 --- mode: ChanServ set +v karswell 17:20:21 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@69-165-220-105.dsl.teksavvy.com) joined #forth 17:20:21 --- mode: ChanServ set +v nighty^ 19:05:40 --- join: Nisstyre (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 19:05:40 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Nisstyre 20:01:26 --- quit: Monevii (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 20:02:40 --- quit: Kumul (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 20:07:27 --- join: Kumul (~Kumul@67.224.254.22) joined #forth 20:07:27 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Kumul 20:58:10 --- quit: Kumul (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 20:59:42 --- quit: nighty^ (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 21:23:59 --- join: Kumul (~Kumul@67.224.220.78) joined #forth 21:24:09 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Kumul 21:27:44 --- quit: RodgerTheGreat (Quit: RodgerTheGreat) 21:37:25 --- join: Kumool (~Kumul@173.215.128.105) joined #forth 21:37:25 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Kumool 21:38:41 --- quit: Kumul (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 21:56:00 --- quit: Kumool (Quit: gone) 22:40:01 --- quit: ttmrichter (Quit: Leaving) 23:40:47 --- join: FatPap (bc169bf8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.22.155.248) joined #forth 23:40:48 --- mode: ChanServ set +v FatPap 23:42:12 Hi. I just had my first forth experience and wanted to ask you if there is a way to view the content of a word ? 23:44:20 --- part: FatPap left #forth 23:53:15 --- join: FatPap (~chatzilla@188-22-155-248.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #forth 23:53:15 --- mode: ChanServ set +v FatPap 23:56:05 --- part: FatPap left #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/12.06.14