00:00:00 --- log: started forth/12.05.31 00:01:38 --- quit: Kumul (Remote host closed the connection) 00:34:10 --- join: DocPlatypus (~skquinn@108-75-59-67.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 00:34:10 --- mode: ChanServ set +v DocPlatypus 00:34:10 --- quit: DocPlatypus (Excess Flood) 00:39:23 --- join: DocPlatypus (~skquinn@108-75-59-67.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 00:39:23 --- mode: ChanServ set +v DocPlatypus 01:18:54 --- join: newcup (newcup@peruna.fi) joined #forth 01:19:07 --- mode: ChanServ set +v newcup 04:16:04 --- quit: jyfl987 (Quit: leaving) 05:19:37 --- join: soveran (~soveran@186.19.214.247) joined #forth 05:19:37 --- mode: ChanServ set +v soveran 05:30:37 --- join: V3nomous_Spid3r (PhenixieN@41.110.142.121) joined #forth 05:30:37 --- mode: ChanServ set +v V3nomous_Spid3r 06:22:26 Mode +x doesn't work 4?12¿4? 06:26:11 --- quit: V3nomous_Spid3r (Quit: PheniXScripT nouvelle mouture féminine disponible sur ===> GooGle :)) 06:56:18 --- quit: phirsch (Excess Flood) 06:59:14 --- join: phirsch (~phirsch@xdsl-89-0-137-241.netcologne.de) joined #forth 06:59:14 --- mode: ChanServ set +v phirsch 08:03:34 --- nick: kulp -> district 08:03:49 --- nick: district -> apples 08:04:06 --- quit: apples (Disconnected by services) 08:04:17 --- join: kulp (~kulp@rox.li) joined #forth 08:04:17 --- mode: ChanServ set +v kulp 08:04:43 --- nick: kulp -> Guest21591 08:05:04 --- nick: Guest21591 -> Gassed21591 08:16:03 --- join: DGASAU` (~user@91.218.144.129) joined #forth 08:16:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +v DGASAU` 08:18:04 --- quit: DGASAU (Remote host closed the connection) 08:32:56 --- quit: DGASAU` (Remote host closed the connection) 08:33:38 --- join: DGASAU` (~user@91.218.144.129) joined #forth 08:33:38 --- mode: ChanServ set +v DGASAU` 08:40:58 --- quit: ttmrichter (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 09:01:15 --- quit: phirsch (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 09:06:43 --- join: phirsch (~phirsch@xdsl-89-0-68-22.netcologne.de) joined #forth 09:06:44 --- mode: ChanServ set +v phirsch 09:12:53 --- nick: Gassed21591 -> kulp 09:13:03 --- quit: kulp (Changing host) 09:13:03 --- join: kulp (~kulp@unaffiliated/kulp) joined #forth 09:13:03 --- mode: pratchett.freenode.net set +v kulp 09:27:37 --- join: ttmrichter (~ttmrichte@61.184.206.222) joined #forth 09:27:37 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ttmrichter 10:28:44 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@static-68-179-124-161.ptr.terago.net) joined #forth 10:28:44 --- mode: ChanServ set +v nighty- 10:42:50 --- quit: ttmrichter (Quit: Leaving) 11:58:32 --- quit: DocPlatypus (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 13:50:57 --- join: Monevii (~Monevii@adsl-64-237-234-175.prtc.net) joined #forth 13:50:57 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Monevii 13:51:10 --- join: Kumul (~Kumul@adsl-64-237-234-175.prtc.net) joined #forth 13:51:10 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Kumul 15:44:07 --- join: Onionnion (~ryan@adsl-68-254-164-38.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) joined #forth 15:44:07 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Onionnion 16:22:19 --- quit: Onionnion (Quit: Leaving) 17:37:50 --- quit: nighty- (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18:00:12 --- quit: soveran (Remote host closed the connection) 18:59:31 --- join: soveran (~soveran@186.19.214.247) joined #forth 18:59:31 --- mode: ChanServ set +v soveran 19:23:42 --- join: RodgerTheGreat (~rodger@71-13-215-128.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) joined #forth 19:23:43 --- mode: ChanServ set +v RodgerTheGreat 19:24:05 howdy, folks. Could anyone field a quick question about gforth? 19:25:30 the word rp0 obtains the base address of the return stack, rp@ obtains the top *element* of the return stack. How do I obtain the *address* of the top of the return stack? 19:26:13 I'd like to be able to scan the data and return stacks for the purpose of writing a garbage collector 19:56:45 whats r0? 19:58:42 I don't see r0 in the gforth manual 19:58:54 --- part: soveran left #forth 19:59:32 it does exist in pfe 20:00:23 hm 20:10:33 --- join: DocPlatypus (~skquinn@108-75-59-67.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 20:10:33 --- mode: ChanServ set +v DocPlatypus 20:24:12 nvm, R0 - returns the beginning of the return stack 20:24:43 ok, so that would appear to be the equivalent of rp0 in gforth 20:25:31 yeah sorry, someday someone will answer :) 20:25:32 I tried using 'see' on rp@ and friends but, unsurprisingly, they're code words 20:27:04 Kumul: the few times I've been in this channel it's been pretty quiet 20:28:07 yeah... im not much help, so i just stay quiet and not make an ass of myself 20:28:29 well I appreciate the attempt 20:39:29 --- join: jyfl987 (~jyf@unaffiliated/yunfan) joined #forth 20:39:29 --- mode: ChanServ set +v jyfl987 20:41:34 it just doesn't make any sense to me to *have* rp0 if you can't also get the current rp 20:52:41 with "see" being broken in gforth for amd64 code words... I'm starting to see why some hate it 20:52:55 it's the only ANS Forth that I know runs most everywhere though 20:53:11 and I flat out do not get why some people hate ANS 20:53:27 I mainly use it because it's portable and has an extensive standard wordset 20:53:49 when I'm not using my own dialect 20:54:19 I think some of the ANS hate comes from the fact that being large and all-inclusive kind of stands at odds with the minimalistic nature of Forth 20:54:20 I plan to write my own as proof of concept of the minimal set of words that absolutely need to be code 20:54:36 well, we need some standardization 20:54:48 it can be handy 20:54:56 it's silly that one Forth calls the same word something entirely different from another Forth when they do the same thing 20:55:15 the lack of a decent standard is what I think killed BASIC 20:55:33 but standardization implies standards committees, and bureaucracy is a cancer 20:55:48 crummy TinyBASIC implementations killed BASIC 20:56:19 in its earliest forms, by the standards of the day, it was a really solid language 20:56:36 imagine if one Forth called it d+ and then another called it something stupid like big+ 20:57:13 I know the saying about a camel being a horse designed by committee or whatever it is 20:57:44 the truth is, a camel will still take you there 20:58:43 on one hand the balkanization of forth means programmers have a great deal of freedom to experiment, but on the other hand it means innovations are constantly being reinvented and then consigned to a shelf 20:59:50 I suppose it might also be a bit demoralizing to ANS coders to know that chuck hates ANS forth 21:00:55 do/did K&R hate ANSI C? 21:01:08 no idea 21:01:26 well... they wrote a book about ANSI C, so I would guess not 21:01:45 or, they were like the farmer that equated the smell of cow manure with money 21:01:45 but I do know that my copy of K&R says "Covers ANSI C" in big letters on the cover 21:02:15 Chuck should realize the alternative to ANS Forth is the death of Forth as a serious programming language 21:02:39 forth died as a mainstream programming language in the late 80s 21:03:42 and the languages chuck is presently working on/with have evolved into something very different from ANS forth 21:08:52 BASIC, C, FORTRAN all changed too 21:09:06 some more than others 21:09:21 Perl, Python, Ruby, Lua have since come into the fray 21:09:21 etc 21:10:26 well, if you want Forth to compete with Python there's Factor 21:12:52 dynamic memory and partial function application are rather fiddly things to express in a conventional Forth, but they're trivialized by modern interpreted languages. 21:13:34 you can extend forth to have those things, but in the process you will be writing a substantial fraction of Factor 21:17:37 I think there are a handful of low-level systems programming tasks that are still very natural to express in Forth- drivers, the kinds of things a kernel is responsible for- but applications-level coding benefits from automatic memory management and some degree of sandboxing 21:18:08 ie use Forth to take you from bootloader to kernel and then build something higher level 21:26:27 'night folks 21:26:53 --- quit: RodgerTheGreat (Quit: RodgerTheGreat) 21:55:13 --- quit: phirsch (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21:56:15 --- join: phirsch (~phirsch@xdsl-89-0-177-157.netcologne.de) joined #forth 21:56:15 --- mode: ChanServ set +v phirsch 22:08:07 --- join: impomatic (~digital_w@31.185.161.14) joined #forth 22:08:07 --- mode: ChanServ set +v impomatic 22:55:42 --- quit: Kumul (Quit: gone) 23:05:35 --- quit: Monevii (Remote host closed the connection) 23:39:07 --- quit: impomatic (Quit: impomatic) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/12.05.31