00:00:00 --- log: started forth/12.05.02 00:28:02 --- part: fftw left #forth 01:09:30 --- quit: ASau` (Remote host closed the connection) 01:11:50 --- join: ASau` (~user@95-25-227-191.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 01:11:50 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ASau` 03:13:32 --- join: DocPlatypus (~skquinn@108-75-59-67.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 03:13:33 --- mode: ChanServ set +v DocPlatypus 03:15:13 --- quit: jyfl987 (Quit: leaving) 03:15:29 --- part: DocPlatypus left #forth 03:27:59 --- join: ttmrichter (~ttmrichte@61.183.22.203) joined #forth 03:28:00 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ttmrichter 03:29:42 --- quit: cataska_ (Quit: leaving) 03:29:55 --- join: cataska (~cataska@210.64.6.233) joined #forth 03:29:55 --- mode: ChanServ set +v cataska 03:39:54 --- quit: MrBusiness (Quit: Leaving) 05:13:46 --- join: jyfl987 (~jyf@unaffiliated/yunfan) joined #forth 05:13:47 --- mode: ChanServ set +v jyfl987 05:31:48 --- join: tmdhat (~lsd@189-106-67-49.user.veloxzone.com.br) joined #forth 05:31:48 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tmdhat 06:29:59 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@static-68-179-124-161.ptr.terago.net) joined #forth 06:29:59 --- mode: ChanServ set +v nighty- 07:46:07 --- quit: ttmrichter (Quit: Leaving) 07:51:18 --- join: Kumul (~Kumul@adsl-64-237-227-237.prtc.net) joined #forth 07:51:18 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Kumul 09:23:27 --- quit: Nisstyre (Quit: Leaving) 09:48:59 --- join: ASau`` (~user@176.14.176.32) joined #forth 09:49:00 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ASau`` 09:50:47 --- quit: ASau` (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 10:25:49 --- quit: remyhr (Quit: Leaving.) 10:25:56 --- join: remyhr (~remy@pob78-1-82-238-158-96.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 10:25:56 --- mode: ChanServ set +v remyhr 10:27:59 --- join: Nisstyre (~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net) joined #forth 10:27:59 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Nisstyre 10:28:49 --- quit: phirsch (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 10:32:08 --- join: phirsch (~smuxi@xdsl-89-0-102-236.netcologne.de) joined #forth 10:32:09 --- mode: ChanServ set +v phirsch 10:36:30 --- join: remyhr1 (~remy@pob78-1-82-238-158-96.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 10:36:30 --- quit: remyhr (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 10:36:30 --- mode: ChanServ set +v remyhr1 10:46:58 --- quit: remyhr1 (Quit: Leaving.) 10:47:04 --- join: remyhr (~remy@pob78-1-82-238-158-96.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 10:47:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +v remyhr 10:57:41 --- join: remyhr1 (~remy@pob78-1-82-238-158-96.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 10:57:41 --- mode: ChanServ set +v remyhr1 10:57:41 --- quit: remyhr (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11:08:11 --- quit: remyhr1 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11:08:16 --- join: remyhr (~remy@pob78-1-82-238-158-96.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 11:08:28 --- mode: ChanServ set +v remyhr 11:18:58 --- quit: remyhr (Quit: Leaving.) 11:19:01 --- join: remyhr1 (~remy@pob78-1-82-238-158-96.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 11:19:01 --- mode: ChanServ set +v remyhr1 11:29:27 --- join: remyhr (~remy@pob78-1-82-238-158-96.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 11:29:28 --- mode: ChanServ set +v remyhr 11:29:28 --- quit: remyhr1 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11:46:10 --- quit: Kumul (Quit: gone) 11:51:21 --- quit: nighty- (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11:54:11 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@static-68-179-124-161.ptr.terago.net) joined #forth 11:54:11 --- mode: ChanServ set +v nighty- 13:06:57 --- quit: i__ (Remote host closed the connection) 13:15:06 --- join: Kumul (~Kumul@adsl-64-237-227-237.prtc.net) joined #forth 13:15:06 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Kumul 13:40:06 --- nick: Kumul -> UselessReply 14:16:07 --- quit: nighty- (Remote host closed the connection) 14:47:15 --- join: _spt_ (~in@host-92-4-106-62.as43234.net) joined #forth 14:47:15 --- quit: _spt_ (Changing host) 14:47:15 --- join: _spt_ (~in@unaffiliated/-spt-/x-5624824) joined #forth 14:47:15 --- mode: ChanServ set +v _spt_ 14:51:14 --- nick: ASau`` -> ASau 15:15:14 --- nick: kulp -> RICKETS_ 15:15:22 --- nick: RICKETS_ -> kulp 15:31:48 --- join: MrBusiness (~MrBusines@184.99.7.19) joined #forth 15:31:48 --- mode: ChanServ set +v MrBusiness 16:10:35 --- part: _spt_ left #forth 16:22:51 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 16:29:20 --- join: ASau (~user@176.14.176.32) joined #forth 16:29:21 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ASau 18:53:37 --- join: ttmrichter (~ttmrichte@122.228.251.246) joined #forth 18:53:37 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ttmrichter 19:28:11 --- join: nibalizer (nibz@reaver.cat.pdx.edu) joined #forth 19:28:12 --- mode: ChanServ set +v nibalizer 19:28:20 everyone has HATS 19:28:39 hats everyone put_on . 19:28:42 i think 19:30:47 i don't even have hats in tf2, much less real life 19:31:14 (i lead a hapless, hatless existence) 20:09:45 Yeah, I'm pretty much hat-free myself. 20:09:50 And I say this wearing my English teacher hat. 20:11:35 * kulp minds his p's and q's. 20:13:39 Your p's and q's what? (You should probably more mind your apostrophes.:D) 20:14:31 i was hoping you would jump on that, because using apostrophes to signal plurals of symbols as such is perfectly valid. 20:14:48 it is one of the very few places that it is valid to use apostrophes to mark plurals. 20:15:51 if i said "mind my as and is" 20:16:13 it would be rather difficult to parse ; i think it's for that reason that the apostrophe is permitted, when italics are not available. 20:16:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostrophe#Use_in_forming_certain_plurals 20:22:32 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 20:23:19 --- quit: jyfl987 (Quit: leaving) 20:26:01 --- join: jyfl987 (~jyf@unaffiliated/yunfan) joined #forth 20:26:02 --- mode: ChanServ set +v jyfl987 20:26:12 --- join: ASau (~user@176.14.176.32) joined #forth 20:26:12 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ASau 20:43:39 "As" and "is" are words and as such easily confused with an attempt at plurals. 20:43:48 ps and qs are not easily confused with real words. 20:44:02 In general parsimony with the exceptions are what is favoured. 20:47:50 so you would prefer to be inconsistent, and say "ps and qs and a's and i's" ? 20:54:38 the point i would make is that it is far from incorrect to say "p's and q's" and that is all i need to say. 20:58:59 There's nothing inconsistent in a policy that says "use the exceptions only where not using them makes for ambiguity". 20:59:15 It's similar to the rules for use of the apostrophe in Hanyu Pinyin. 20:59:29 Xi'an is used instead of Xian because Xian is a word. 20:59:45 You put the apostrophe between syllables if there's ambiguity. 20:59:58 This is 100% consistent and 100% predictable. 20:59:59 nevertheless it is a more complex rule. 21:00:10 in the case of english, i mean. 21:00:35 and now it becomes a question of style. 21:00:43 I question if it's meaningfully "more complex". 21:00:45 and in questions of style, i prefer simpler rules to more complex ones, where possible. 21:00:53 perhaps you do :) 21:01:04 the important thing is that neither of us is or was wrong ! 21:01:34 Given all the other complexities of English that English speakers defend to their dying breath (like the idiocy that is English spelling!), the "complexity" of the apostrophe is minor. 21:02:05 * ttmrichter thinks that English is in dire need of about five generations of "Rechtschreibung"-like reform. 21:02:32 those two statements are rather opposed in their intentions. 21:02:59 my point is to avoid adding complexity ; yet you say with one breath "this is not significant additional complexity" and in another "let us reform to remove complexity" ? 21:03:25 perhaps we would not need so much reform if we were content to choose less complex rules to govern our daily usage. 21:05:14 clearly we have not much control over the complexity that has already accumulated. 21:05:55 but i favour simplicity and consistency ("a's, i's, p's and q's") over complexity ("a's, i's, ps and qs") 21:09:01 Then write simpler, e.g. <> instead of "a's". 21:09:38 (We have corresponding linguistical phenomenon here. It sucks.) 21:34:28 --- quit: remyhr (Quit: Leaving.) 21:34:32 --- join: remyhr1 (~remy@pob78-1-82-238-158-96.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 21:34:32 --- mode: ChanServ set +v remyhr1 22:01:03 --- quit: phirsch (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 22:04:31 --- join: phirsch (~smuxi@xdsl-89-0-102-236.netcologne.de) joined #forth 22:04:31 --- mode: ChanServ set +v phirsch 22:11:50 --- quit: phirsch (Remote host closed the connection) 22:13:54 --- join: phirsch (~smuxi@xdsl-89-0-102-236.netcologne.de) joined #forth 22:13:55 --- mode: ChanServ set +v phirsch 22:21:33 --- quit: phirsch (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 22:22:59 --- join: phirsch (~smuxi@xdsl-89-0-102-236.netcologne.de) joined #forth 22:22:59 --- mode: ChanServ set +v phirsch 22:28:30 --- quit: phirsch (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 22:37:30 --- join: phirsch (~smuxi@xdsl-78-35-59-176.netcologne.de) joined #forth 22:37:31 --- mode: ChanServ set +v phirsch 22:38:43 --- quit: phirsch (Excess Flood) 22:59:53 --- quit: UselessReply (Quit: gone) 23:37:27 --- quit: segher (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 23:54:28 --- join: segher (~segher@5ED3C8DF.cm-7-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #forth 23:54:29 --- mode: ChanServ set +v segher 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/12.05.02