00:00:00 --- log: started forth/12.02.25 01:06:24 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 01:06:24 --- mode: ChanServ set +v MayDaniel 01:08:15 --- quit: MayDaniel (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 02:10:26 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 02:10:26 --- mode: ChanServ set +v MayDaniel 02:53:45 --- quit: MayDaniel (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 03:01:20 --- quit: I440r (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05:19:37 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 05:19:37 --- mode: ChanServ set +v MayDaniel 05:58:20 --- quit: yiyus (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 05:58:59 --- join: yiyus (1242712427@je.je.je) joined #forth 05:58:59 --- mode: ChanServ set +v yiyus 06:15:53 --- join: Kumul (~Kumul@67.224.230.59) joined #forth 06:15:54 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Kumul 06:42:33 --- quit: yiyus (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 06:47:56 --- join: yiyus (1242712427@je.je.je) joined #forth 06:48:01 --- mode: ChanServ set +v yiyus 07:27:38 --- quit: ASau (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 07:30:01 --- join: ASau (~user@95-24-25-63.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 07:30:02 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ASau 07:50:14 --- join: tassadar (~logan@186.126.138.183) joined #forth 07:50:14 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tassadar 07:54:12 Hi. I'm looking into forth and I'd like some comments from people who actually use it. A friend of mine told me "to use forth you need to change your way of thinking in programs radically". I wouldn't mind that but I'd like to know how does it compare to C, in speed, libs, resources, etc. 08:38:44 --- quit: yiyus (Read error: Operation timed out) 08:44:01 --- join: yiyus (1242712427@je.je.je) joined #forth 08:44:01 --- mode: ChanServ set +v yiyus 09:43:07 --- quit: MayDaniel (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:44:04 --- join: ASau` (~user@176.14.69.54) joined #forth 09:44:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ASau` 09:47:17 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 10:21:25 tassadar: it is inferior in everything besides the size of interpreter. 10:22:18 tassadar: this was important in days of microcomputers when you had 64-128 kB at most. 11:47:32 ASau`: I see, so you wouldn't recommend me starting a big project in forth, right? 11:48:08 Right. 11:52:08 Is there something like a forth jit? 11:52:25 guess it'd improve speed, but so far it doesn't ring a bell 11:53:23 It doesn't improve speed much. 11:53:37 The problem is more at conceptual level. 11:54:26 besides it's more difficult to think in terms of stack (since it's always changing) than in vars 11:55:06 Well... That's exactly the problem. 11:55:26 Canonical Forth ideology is thinking in stack. 11:55:46 It can be actually fixed, but nobody in Forth community cares. 11:56:05 and since current CPUs are all register based, stack-centric software tends to be slow 11:56:38 That's for naive interpreters. 11:56:50 But most Forth interpreters are naive. 11:57:21 Fixing most problems requires thinking in terms like "row polymorphism." 11:57:29 yeah, I guess the beauty of forth is the simplicity of how an interpreter can be implemented 11:57:49 * tassadar googles "row polymorphism" 11:57:50 And most Forth lovers deny existence of computational theory. 11:59:02 I find that last line quite funny. I know one of those guys 11:59:26 a minimalism zealot 12:00:02 Those guys have no clue about Kolmogorov complexity. 12:07:39 so, for conclusion's sake: forth no longer makes sense for real life uses, unless for embedded systems or special CPUs 12:08:00 Right. 12:08:08 this pretty much is what I wanted to know 12:08:17 thanks for your time ASau` 12:08:36 yikes, i better move away from here 12:08:43 --- quit: tassadar (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6) 12:19:00 --- quit: DGASAU (Remote host closed the connection) 13:10:43 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 13:10:43 --- mode: ChanServ set +v MayDaniel 13:56:02 --- join: I440r (~zhiming@24-183-5-217.dhcp.fdul.wi.charter.com) joined #forth 13:56:03 --- mode: ChanServ set +v I440r 14:53:10 --- quit: ASau` (Quit: reboot) 14:58:55 --- join: ASau (~user@176.14.69.54) joined #forth 14:58:55 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ASau 15:10:58 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 15:14:48 --- join: ASau (~user@176.14.69.54) joined #forth 15:14:48 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ASau 15:50:16 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@69-165-220-105.dsl.teksavvy.com) joined #forth 15:50:16 --- mode: ChanServ set +v nighty- 16:42:20 asau: erm, what? good Forth compilers are competitive in speed to good C compilers 16:42:44 and much leaner on resources 16:43:49 everything else you say suggests you have never seriously programmed in Forth, too 18:31:52 --- join: Backz (backz@200.185.225.95) joined #forth 18:31:53 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Backz 19:04:01 --- join: amca_ (~amca@CPE-121-208-82-128.cqzr1.cha.bigpond.net.au) joined #forth 19:04:01 --- mode: ChanServ set +v amca_ 19:04:09 --- quit: Backz () 19:21:41 --- nick: amca_ -> amca 20:37:04 --- quit: MayDaniel (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20:58:42 --- quit: amca (Quit: Farewell) 22:56:09 --- part: Kumul left #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/12.02.25