00:00:00 --- log: started forth/11.10.30
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03:28:31 <Bahman> Hi all!
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04:44:42 <Bahman> Would anyone please tell me what does COUNT do?
04:49:54 <ttmrichter> It counts things, obviously!  :D
04:50:06 <Bahman> To my understanding, it pushes the character count from a buffer filled with WORD onto the stack, is that right?
04:50:17 <Bahman> filled with = filled by
04:52:50 <ttmrichter> http://www.taygeta.com/forth/dpans6.htm#6.1.0980
04:52:59 <ttmrichter> That's the official definition there.
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04:57:49 <ttmrichter> Does the definition help or would you like an example?
04:58:18 <ttmrichter> I'll assume the example…
04:58:27 <ttmrichter> Let's assume this definition:
04:58:42 <ttmrichter> : HELLO$   C" Hello, world!" ;
04:58:46 <ttmrichter> That's a counted string.
04:59:04 <ttmrichter> If I execute the HELLO$ world, the address of the count is placed on the stack.
04:59:24 <ttmrichter> COUNT will modify that into the address of the first character and the length of the string.
04:59:34 <ttmrichter> So watch this (executed in gforth):
05:00:15 <ttmrichter> HELLO$ .S <1> 140028990857992  ok
05:00:26 <ttmrichter> Executing HELLO$ points only to a single address.
05:00:40 <ttmrichter> COUNT .S <2> 140028990857993 13  ok
05:01:10 <ttmrichter> Executing COUNT now puts the address one away from the original (i.e. right after the count byte) and the length onto the stack.
05:01:44 <ttmrichter> TYPE Hello, world! ok
05:01:54 <ttmrichter> Now I can type the string.
05:02:05 <ttmrichter> Does that make sense, Bahman?
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05:13:11 <Bahman> Sorry was one the phone.
05:13:19 <Bahman> Thanks that makes perfect sense ttmrichter.
05:13:57 <Bahman> And thank your for that link...that's what I really need.
06:03:07 <Bahman> ud1 is the final result when using >NUMBER am I right?
06:04:48 <Bahman> Oops...silly mistake...I was wrong obviously.
06:04:54 <Bahman> ud2 is the answer.
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06:11:19 <Gmind> hi 
06:11:42 <Gmind> I'm wondering why I can't make jonesForth work
06:11:55 <Gmind> on Ubuntu 11.10
06:15:23 <ttmrichter> Gmind: I had it working on Ubuntu 10.04 and I have it working now on Linux Mint (an Ubuntu derivative) at the latest version.
06:15:28 <ttmrichter> What's the problem you're having?
06:15:45 <ttmrichter> And which version of Jonesforth are you using?  I took the fork off Github.
06:21:32 <Gmind> mine is 47
06:22:07 <Gmind> ok , i solved with -Ttext removed
06:23:55 <Gmind> before that, it keep Killed
06:24:11 <Gmind> before that, it keep getting Killed
06:29:31 <Bahman> Would anyone please tell me what does /STRING do?
06:32:34 <Gmind> did you look at Forth reference ?
06:42:35 <crc> 17.6.1.0245 /STRING slash-string STRING
06:52:15 <Bahman> Gmind, crc: thanks I got it.
06:52:27 <Bahman> Now there's this one:  2DROP<  :-D
06:53:35 <crc> easy enough; removes two values from the data stack.
06:55:00 <Bahman> crc: It seems so but what is 2DROP then?  Also 2DROP< is undefined in gForth.  Any alternative?
06:55:24 <crc> I missed the <
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07:00:11 <crc> 2DROP< isn't a standardized word
07:06:15 <crc> I think that's a typo in the starting forth; http://home.iae.nl/users/mhx/sf10/sf10.html has a copy with just plain 2DROP in the listing
07:26:59 <Bahman> crc: That makes sense.  Thanks.
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07:37:52 <Gmind> what's "cld" do in jonesForth ?
07:40:32 <crc> in the assembly?
07:41:33 <crc> (assuming so, it's the instruction to clear the direction flag: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direction_flag )
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07:54:14 <Gmind> ýe
07:54:15 <Gmind> yep
07:55:20 <Gmind> thanks
07:55:23 <Gmind> crc
07:55:26 <crc> no problem
08:10:16 <Gmind> fairly helpful when I'm learning both GAS and Forth
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08:24:02 <saper> anyone tried some forth for android?
08:29:26 <crc> there's not a lot of options for forth on android at this point. 
08:29:26 <crc> 1) https://market.android.com/details?id=hu.gusthy.android.forth [based on SFI, crashes on my CM7 devices]
08:29:26 <crc> 2) https://market.android.com/details?id=com.idedroidfree [I didn't try this. Doesn't actually run on-device; submits to a server to run, then returns the results]
08:29:27 <Gmind> would be nice if anyone make one FORTH for ARM :P
08:31:23 <crc> there's also my Retro (https://market.android.com/details?id=com.forthworks.retro), but it's not strictly a Forth implementation; the language differs from standard Forth in a number of significant places
08:32:39 <crc> Gmind: see http://pygmy.utoh.org/riscy/
08:36:18 <crc> I've built and run a reduced-functionality 16-bit retro implementation on the mbed.org (ARM-based LPC1768) microcontroller boards, but the limited RAM prevents me from being able to load a full system
08:36:22 <Gmind> Retro seem to be potential 
08:38:41 <Gmind> crc, sorry that I haven't had any Android or ARM device right now to test. 
08:54:49 <crc> I didn't have any ARM or Android hardware until this year. Now I do, but not enough time to invest in making the most from it :(
09:03:01 <Gmind> I'm a bit of Java Hatress
09:03:27 <Gmind> so I'm confused about buying Android ( I like the Motorola Defy but ... ) 
09:25:51 <saper> I got Huawei Ideos for $80, not bad for a fully-fledged Android phone
09:30:04 <Gmind> 80 $ ?
09:30:06 <Gmind> =.=
09:30:26 <Gmind> that's ARM powered Phone ?
09:31:02 <Gmind> I just can get a Motorola EX115 at that price and I don't know What OS it has =(
09:33:03 <crc> http://www.gsmarena.com/huawei_u8150_ideos-3513.php - 528MHz ARM 11 processor
09:34:09 <crc> I looked at the Ideos, but ended up getting an LG G2x instead
09:56:31 <Gmind> Nokia is telling smt about giveaway their window phone to developer
10:02:00 <saper> there is http://sourceforge.net/projects/androidforth/ as well
10:08:24 <Gmind> crc, nice :P
10:10:19 <crc> saper: if it's not in the market, then there are a fair number of users who can't (easily) install and try it
10:18:34 <Gmind> any idea on hack motorola EX115 firmware ?
10:30:36 <saper> crc probably not on the market. But I like retro very much.
10:32:26 <saper> I only don't like how android virtual keyboard obscures the input box on my little display
10:33:24 <crc> I originally developed it for a tablet-sized display, still working on improving it for smaller displays
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11:21:53 <Gmind> Did anyone try converting JonesForth to Window ?
11:22:10 <saper> crc: the output canvas adjusts itself somehow, but not always
11:22:30 <saper> but the language seems great
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12:01:14 <Gmind> most of you guys are using Linux , right ?most of you guys are using Linux , right ?
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14:33:19 <Bahman> Is it possible to use USE SOMEFILE inside a word?
14:33:44 <Bahman> I have a word like below:
14:33:57 <Bahman> : CHANGE ( from-char to-char -- ) 	USE quote.txt  .... ;
14:34:31 <Bahman> When I INCLUDE it, I get 
14:34:32 <Bahman> chapter10.fs:2: Undefined word 	USE >>>quote.txt<<< Backtrace: $7F20C9DB4A08 throw  $7F20C9DCAC08 no.extensions  $7F20C9DB8340 compiler-notfound1 
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14:42:57 <tathi> USE isn't a standard word -- what does it do?
14:43:32 <tathi> Looks like it's trying to parse a filename.  That's probably the problem.
14:44:09 <tathi> You're compiling it into a word so it doesn't parse the name until CHANGE runs.
14:44:29 <Bahman> I'm reading "Starting Forth"... USE "instructs disk memory to come from some file"
14:44:36 <tathi> Ah.
14:45:02 <tathi> gforth?
14:45:06 <Bahman> Yes.
14:45:30 <tathi> Probably your best bet is to look at the definition of USE
14:45:41 <Bahman> If I enter USE SOMEFILE at the prompt, it works fine...but using it inside a word is the problem.
14:45:43 <tathi> and use the factor which takes a string on the stack instead
14:46:10 <Bahman> tathi: Good idea :-)
14:46:21 <tathi> Right, because you're compiling USE into CHANGE.  So it doesn't look for a filename until CHANGE runs.
14:46:26 <tathi> Does that make sense?
14:47:15 <Bahman> Yes.  I see your point.  But still wondering how can I pass the filename to USE?
14:47:37 <Bahman> see use  : use     parse-name open-blocks ; ok
14:48:27 <tathi> Yeah, there's not really a good way to do it in general, since Forth separates "compile-time" from "run-time" instead of parsing from semantics.
14:48:39 <tathi> So in this case you can use S" quote.txt" open-blocks
14:49:56 <tathi> gforth also has execute-parsing which is like EXECUTE but also passes a string as the input stream.  So you could do:
14:50:20 <tathi> s" quote.txt" ['] use execute-parsing
14:51:27 <tathi> Often words will have a separate version which works inside a definition, like ' and ['] ("tick" and "bracket-tick") or CHAR and [CHAR] just to get around this problem.
14:51:52 <tathi> S" is special and works either place.
14:52:07 <tathi> Is that more than you wanted to know yet? :)
14:53:29 <Bahman> tathi: Thank you very much...I'm just a rookie yet :-)
14:53:50 <Bahman> Just one more silly question:
14:54:03 <tathi> Sure.  Forth has lots of quirky bits. :)
14:54:17 <Bahman> What is the convention of case in Forth?  Everything in captial or small?
14:54:39 <Bahman> And what's the traditional size of indentation?
14:54:40 <tathi> Most people these days use lowercase.
14:55:09 <tathi> Nothing specific about indentation -- some people like to use very little, like two spaces.
14:55:30 <tathi> I use tabs and set them to 4 spaces in my editor...
14:55:41 <Bahman> Same here :-)
14:55:47 <tathi> Most people try not to nest very much, so it probably doesn't matter.
14:56:04 <Bahman> Thanks again for your time and help.
14:56:41 <tathi> Most systems are case insensitive, BTW.
14:57:48 <Bahman> That's right...I just wanted to know the convention.
14:58:40 <tathi> I gather in the early days many terminals only had uppercase.
14:59:13 <tathi> So to be really technical, the standard only says words *have* to be available in uppercase.
14:59:25 <tathi> But I don't think much of anybody actually writes code like that anymore...
14:59:31 <Bahman> Aha...so that's why old Forth books have everything in uppercase.
15:00:06 <tathi> Yeah, though I could be wrong about that; I'm not a Forth history buff.  
15:00:17 <tathi> (or old enough to have been there) :)
15:00:42 <tathi> Food is done, BBIAB.
15:05:14 <Bahman> Enjoy.
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20:44:35 <Gmind> Forth is orbiting Saturn on the Cassini spacecraft.
20:44:37 <Gmind> :O
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22:10:15 <ttmrichter> Gmind: Forth is orbiting many heavenly bodies.
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23:25:21 <Gmind> :O
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