00:00:00 --- log: started forth/11.06.02 01:14:10 --- join: qFox (~C00K13S@5352689F.cm-6-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #forth 02:14:21 --- quit: jyfl987 (Quit: Leaving.) 02:14:45 --- join: jyfl987 (~jyf@221.221.12.118) joined #forth 03:03:52 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 03:10:23 --- join: xpololz (~tommy@50.80-203-124.nextgentel.com) joined #forth 03:30:25 --- quit: MayDaniel (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 04:20:49 --- join: ygrek (~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ygrek) joined #forth 04:37:43 --- nick: MoALTz_ -> MoALTz 04:50:49 --- quit: ygrek (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 05:14:55 --- join: ttmrichter (~ttmrichte@111.173.97.210) joined #forth 05:24:20 --- join: Fox78 (~fox@123.121.80.125) joined #forth 05:28:32 --- quit: jyfl987 (Quit: Leaving.) 05:40:21 --- quit: mur (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 06:21:23 --- join: mur (~murrrrr@smtp.uiah.fi) joined #forth 06:24:56 --- join: jyfl987 (~jyf@221.221.12.210) joined #forth 06:41:52 --- quit: jyfl987 (Quit: Leaving.) 07:12:23 --- join: ygrek (~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ygrek) joined #forth 07:22:51 --- join: ttmrichter_ (~ttmrichte@111.173.103.189) joined #forth 07:26:14 --- quit: ttmrichter (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 07:40:37 --- quit: ygrek (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 08:10:08 --- quit: cjbaird (Remote host closed the connection) 08:25:49 --- quit: Deformative (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 08:26:57 --- join: yunfan (~jyf@unaffiliated/yunfan) joined #forth 08:41:32 --- quit: yunfan (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 08:43:05 --- join: yunfan (~jyf@unaffiliated/yunfan) joined #forth 08:50:05 --- quit: yunfan (Quit: Leaving.) 09:02:54 --- join: yunfan (~jyf@unaffiliated/yunfan) joined #forth 09:11:16 --- quit: yunfan (Quit: Leaving.) 09:11:34 --- quit: ttmrichter_ (Quit: No wonder these puppets are always in a lousy mood.) 09:11:42 --- join: ttmrichter_ (~ttmrichte@111.173.103.189) joined #forth 09:14:31 --- nick: ttmrichter_ -> ttmrichter 09:42:46 --- quit: Fox78 (Remote host closed the connection) 10:39:08 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 10:42:33 --- join: pattern (~pattern@unaffiliated/pattern) joined #forth 10:42:58 what is the difference between the following two expressions? 10:43:04 create foo 10 , 20 , 10:43:10 create foo 10 c, 20 c, 10:43:25 i don't really understand the difference between , and c, 10:47:08 , places a cell sized value, c, places a character sized value IIRC 10:47:21 oh, right 10:47:25 makes sense 10:47:25 thanks 10:47:31 np 10:57:12 --- join: ygrek (~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ygrek) joined #forth 11:09:38 i'm trying to create aliases for ( and ) 11:09:44 but when i run this program: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/399633/ 11:09:58 gforth complains about: warning: ')' missing 11:10:03 and never gets to the "bye" 11:16:49 --- quit: TeruFSX (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 11:22:28 hmm.. looks like part of the problem is that "(" is hardcoded in to its own definition 11:22:39 so simply creating an alias like that won't work 11:28:28 and i don't know enough forth to successfully modify the original definition 11:37:54 --- join: schme (~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme) joined #forth 11:39:08 --- quit: ygrek (Remote host closed the connection) 11:41:21 --- quit: MayDaniel () 11:41:28 --- join: ygrek (~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ygrek) joined #forth 12:30:18 --- quit: ygrek (Remote host closed the connection) 12:30:59 --- join: ygrek (~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ygrek) joined #forth 12:41:24 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 12:51:06 pattern: you're wrong. 12:51:34 It is ")" that is hard-wired into definition of "(". 12:55:27 And ")" as a word (contrast to ")" as a sign) belongs to quite another syntactic construct. 12:56:19 Problem is that Forth has much more complex syntax than many other languages.' 12:56:36 That's why it isn't obvious what the token role is. 13:30:12 --- quit: ygrek (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 13:40:50 --- join: roarde (~roarde@pdpc/supporter/active/roarde) joined #forth 13:44:43 forth has more complicated syntax than many other languages? 13:44:50 that's the opposite of what i've been reading 13:45:04 people are constantly going on about how incredibly simple forth's syntax is 13:45:10 "just words separated by spaces" 14:11:34 This is bullshit. 14:12:02 By the same logic you can say that "C" is "just tokens sometimes separated by spaces." 14:13:08 It is _lexical_ analysis that is slightly simpler in Forth, 14:13:18 yet _syntactical_ one is much more complex. 14:13:35 what's the difference between lexical analysis and syntactical analysis? 14:14:21 Lexical analysis is about words, syntactical analysis is about sentences. 14:17:14 ah 14:18:14 You can't even reliably assert that Forth lexics is simpler than traditional (algoloid) one. 14:19:36 --- quit: MayDaniel (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:21:14 so is there any hope of finding a simple way to redefine ( and ) ? 14:21:29 or, rather, to define my own..? 14:21:59 deja vu 14:22:22 I last dropped forth at defining (. Gave up. 14:22:41 it was that important to you? 14:22:50 the ('s, i mean 14:23:10 i could live without being able to do this.. it would just be nice if i could 14:23:38 Was reducing an existing "forth", and ( was defined way too late in the code and used too many words I was eliminatiing. 14:23:53 ah 14:23:58 hint: ) need not be defined, per se. 14:24:12 --- quit: xpololz (Quit: Leaving) 14:24:13 depends on how ( is implemented 14:24:13 and those other words couldn't be defined in terms of the words you already had? 14:24:39 there was otherwise no need to define them 14:25:07 here's what gforth shows for the definitions of ( and ) http://paste.pocoo.org/show/399739/ 14:25:56 i can only understand a tiny bit of that 14:26:13 There's a simple way to do what I wished, but as this was to be my first forth, I don't know it. 14:27:05 you interested in staying ans-compatible? 14:29:26 ideally, yeah 14:29:31 but it's not absolutely necessary 14:29:42 i'd be fine with something that worked just in gforth.. for now 14:29:44 ok. forget what I said about not defining ) 14:38:13 pattern: you don't understand that because "(" and ")" belong to quite _different_(!) syntactic categories. 14:38:29 "(" is about _comments_, while ")" is about ... 14:38:39 what do you think? 14:40:11 It is about _assertions_! 14:40:33 "(" is part of comment syntax like "( some comment )" 14:40:58 and ")" is part of assertion syntax like "assert( some code )" 14:41:44 That's why you cannot redefine them like you do above 14:41:51 in a _meaningful_ way. 14:55:39 --- quit: qFox (Quit: Time for cookies!) 15:23:34 ah 15:23:59 well, that sounds like i'd only need to define my own opening comment word 15:24:17 and make the closing comment part of that word 15:25:51 yep. some forths do it that way with (, but they don't use ( or ) for anything but comments. 15:27:41 It isn't possible to do it otherwise. 15:28:07 "( something)" is a comment, but it doesn't have space-delimited ")" word. 15:42:38 --- quit: martinhex (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:48:06 --- join: tathi (~josh@dsl-216-227-95-5.fairpoint.net) joined #forth 16:09:40 --- join: martinhex (~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #forth 17:05:33 --- quit: roarde (Quit: Leaving) 17:09:19 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 17:10:09 --- join: ASau (~user@95-27-146-128.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 17:59:48 --- join: xiaohao (da0359f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.3.89.248) joined #forth 18:10:44 --- join: Deformative (~Joseph@cpe-98-155-76-109.san.res.rr.com) joined #forth 18:29:38 --- quit: tathi (Quit: leaving) 18:32:56 --- join: roarde (~roarde@pdpc/supporter/active/roarde) joined #forth 18:40:17 --- quit: roarde (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18:41:13 --- join: roarde (~roarde@pdpc/supporter/active/roarde) joined #forth 19:01:57 --- quit: roarde (Quit: Leaving) 19:23:30 --- join: TeruFSX (~quassel@71-210-136-53.mpls.qwest.net) joined #forth 19:44:34 --- quit: TeruFSX (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21:12:16 --- join: cjbaird (~cjb@ppp121-45-165-240.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net) joined #forth 21:15:45 --- join: jyfl987 (~jyf@221.221.11.70) joined #forth 21:26:03 --- quit: Deformative (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 21:34:31 --- join: Deformative (~Joseph@cpe-76-88-37-169.san.res.rr.com) joined #forth 21:56:54 --- quit: Deformative (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21:58:14 --- join: Deformative (~Joseph@cpe-76-88-37-169.san.res.rr.com) joined #forth 22:07:39 --- quit: Deformative (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) 22:20:48 --- join: Deformative (~Joseph@cpe-76-88-37-169.san.res.rr.com) joined #forth 22:29:36 Nuts. I put off getting a Wikireader for too long, and now they're gone from the shop selling them locally... 22:50:36 --- quit: cataska (Remote host closed the connection) 22:53:17 --- join: cataska (~cataska@210.64.6.233) joined #forth 23:02:13 --- quit: cataska (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 23:02:27 --- join: ygrek (~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ygrek) joined #forth 23:03:43 --- join: cataska (~cataska@210.64.6.233) joined #forth 23:38:21 --- quit: Deformative (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 23:48:58 --- join: qFox (~C00K13S@5352689F.cm-6-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #forth 23:50:31 --- quit: DocPlatypus (Remote host closed the connection) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/11.06.02