00:00:00 --- log: started forth/11.05.23 00:51:05 --- join: jyfl987 (~jyf@221.221.11.231) joined #forth 00:51:30 is there any quick tutorial for forth? 00:56:31 jyfl987: Define "quick" here? 00:56:46 I mean there's Brodie's thing, but that's book-sized. 00:57:10 If that's OK for you, it's online at http://www.forth.com/starting-forth/index.html 00:58:46 ttmrichter: i need a quick tutorial , i am now a python programmer, and i learn python from a byte of python 00:59:02 and now i am use ubuntu 10.04 00:59:25 i have already install pforth yforth gforth, which is recomment for learning? 00:59:36 If you're used to procedural programming you'll probably want something other than a "quick" tutorial. Forth is not a typical procedural language. It's ... very different from Python. About as different as it gets. 01:00:22 I'd pass over yforth were I you. 01:00:31 gforth or pforth are probably better of those three. 01:00:52 well when i heard the intro of forth, i feel like this 01:01:26 dont think understanding stack base programming is diffcult to me 01:01:32 Here's a quick guide to Forth. http://galileo.phys.virginia.edu/classes/551.jvn.fall01/primer.htm 01:01:47 You'll change your mind after actually using Forth for a while. ;) 01:02:11 Forth is accused of being a programming amplifier: if your habits are bad, they get worse; if your habits are good, they get better. 01:02:19 (It shares this characteristic with Common Lisp IMO.) 01:02:21 currently i want to use it as my embed command language for irc bot 01:02:50 cause i can use its extensive to make my own command, which someone might couldnt guess the meaning :] 01:04:07 ttmrichter: "We will use Win32Forth for these illustrations." :[ 01:04:31 You'll have to do some translation, yes. 01:04:40 Welcome to a non-standard standardized language. :) 01:04:58 Another way to learn Forth is to implement it. https://github.com/chengchangwu/jonesforth is a full Forth tutorial *AND* implementation. 01:05:22 i have some experience on non-standard language, like brainf*ck 01:05:22 You'll learn a lot about Forth from that one, but you've got to be a bit of a zealot, I think, to work through it all. 01:05:56 ttmrichter: do you use forth as a work language? 01:06:16 I have in the distant past. 01:06:57 I wrote my own Forth-alike in my teens, then used Forth in an embedded environment back in the '80s. 01:07:16 so now you become the ultimate programmer , who dont do progamming? ;] 01:07:45 My current poison is mainly Erlang. 01:07:48 oh, its older than me 01:09:16 lisp seems like this (op arg1 arg2) while forth like this arg1 arg2 op , is it? 01:09:25 Roughly, yes. 01:09:49 In both cases there are mechanisms that allow you to break out of that structure, but in the overwhelming number of cases that's how you do it. 01:10:54 ok, thx, i found a tutorial written in my native language 01:11:02 but still thank you very much 01:14:47 What is your native language? 01:15:52 its simplefied chinese , 01:16:21 there is a chinese forth group , found it right now 01:18:21 jyfl987: this is a reasonably short tutorial: http://mysite.verizon.net/murphywong/simple.htm 01:18:24 but not too short 01:20:09 pattern: thank you 01:20:52 pattern: is it visiable at you 01:21:04 if it is , i need to use a proxy :[ 01:21:09 it is 01:21:23 ok , it is banned by GFW 01:21:57 here's anothere copy: http://www.murphywong.net/hello/simple.htm 01:22:30 pattern: can you send me a copy by email? its jyf1987 at gmail dot com 01:24:03 also here: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/393544/ 01:24:31 thank you pattern 01:26:11 pattern: is is written in tex or other format 01:28:38 the original is in html 01:28:56 i just copied and pasted it to that pocoo.org site 01:28:59 got it, this is what i need 01:29:38 Since when is Forth catching on in China? :-o 01:30:47 Also, jyfl987: If you want to work around the GFW, get a VPS outside of it from any of a thousand VPS providers and use an SSH link to give yourself a SOCKS5 proxy to the outside world. 01:30:50 (That's what I do.) 01:31:39 ttmrichter: dont know, but i know forth's name when i was a child, 01:32:09 but that time forth is just a programming language's name which sound likes c or others 01:32:43 ttmrichter: i got a vps, ping geek42.info, but they are now want to use a allow list 01:37:35 Where is your VPS located? 01:37:43 in usa 01:38:00 Weird. I'm having no problem dodging the GFW with my Canadian VPS. 01:38:31 ttmrichter: well why you need a vps ?? you mean you also in china? 01:38:58 我在武汉 (forgive the bad Chinese please). 01:39:59 ttmrichter: are you chinese or foreign teacher in china's university 01:40:22 The latter for now. 01:40:38 I'll be joining a software firm in a few weeks, though. In 厦门. 01:41:12 ttmrichter: well i am in beijing, you know, ISP 's strangecy is different 01:41:36 Are they prohibiting an SSH connection for you? 01:41:37 ttmrichter: if you are in university , i think you can use there ipv6 network 01:41:48 ttmrichter: currently not yet 01:42:05 I'm just using China Netcom. 01:42:09 but like for gmail/greader, it will cut off the connect every 15 minutes about 01:42:56 and my mobile(htc g7) which use a 3G network, can easily connect to gtalk while my pc couldnt, 01:43:32 And if they're not blocking SSH, set up an SSH server in your American VPS, connect to it via -D, configure your browser to do DNS queries through SOCKS5, use OpenDNS as your DNS resolver and then put in a proxy switcher so that anything blocked by the GFW goes through your SSH tunnel instead. 01:45:12 There's not a single web page I can't view. It's just that my back door is a bit slow (and I don't want to saturate my monthly bandwidth on the VPS). 01:45:36 So I use the proxy switching trick on an URL-by-URL basis to only redirect the sites that are blocked or hassled. 01:46:26 well i use ssh -CNfg -D 9999 user@host :] 01:47:30 OK, so you've got everything you need set up. Why are you having problems? Are you not configuring your browser to do DNS queries via your proxy? 01:47:32 ttmrichter: i still recomment you to find a ipv6 proxy, i used to use a ipv6 proxy server which provider by a taiwan people, its speed is very high 01:47:56 I don't have IPv6 capability here. 01:48:10 ttmrichter: there's a tool called gw6c 01:48:13 Starting with my crappy little firewall. 01:48:31 I mean my VPS *DOES* have an IPv6 address I think. 01:48:36 It's getting to it that's the problem. 01:48:37 GFW make us chinese programmer to learn ip/network :] 01:49:20 ttmrichter: there's many ipv6 server for gw6c i think 02:14:47 --- join: kowalski (~ramazan@124.119.51.14) joined #forth 02:14:54 hi all 02:15:34 --- join: hata (~chatzilla@124.240.125.32) joined #forth 02:16:31 ttmrichter: pattern found yforth is suite for learning by the tutorial 02:18:33 --- part: kowalski left #forth 02:19:20 --- join: horn12 (~hha06.sta@111.113.165.1) joined #forth 02:19:59 --- part: horn12 left #forth 02:23:08 --- join: szsloss (~szsloss@58.240.170.214) joined #forth 02:24:40 --- part: szsloss left #forth 02:25:30 --- quit: hata (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110504060048]) 02:39:43 jyfl987: I'm not a huge fan of "learning implementations". They're typically deficient in some way and can often leave you saying "so ... this is it?". 02:52:20 --- quit: jyfl987 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 03:08:32 --- join: jyfl987 (~jyf@221.221.11.237) joined #forth 03:11:24 --- join: DocPlatypus (~skquinn@dsl253-084-031.hou1.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #forth 03:17:12 --- quit: jyfl987 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 03:33:40 --- join: jyfl987 (~jyf@221.221.11.237) joined #forth 04:07:24 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 04:26:19 --- quit: MayDaniel (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05:39:08 --- join: ttmrichter_ (~ttmrichte@111.173.100.71) joined #forth 05:40:32 --- quit: ttmrichter_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05:40:39 --- join: ttmrichter__ (~ttmrichte@111.173.100.71) joined #forth 05:42:53 --- quit: ttmrichter (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 05:43:01 --- nick: ttmrichter__ -> ttmrichter 06:01:01 --- quit: DocPlatypus (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 06:19:55 --- quit: tlvb (Quit: leaving) 07:16:03 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(~Joseph@cpe-98-155-76-109.san.res.rr.com) joined #forth 18:39:40 according to this: http://www.forth.com/starting-forth/sf5/sf5.html 18:39:46 the I word "Copies the top of the return stack without affecting it." 18:40:11 but according to this: http://www.public.iastate.edu/~forth/gforth_26.html 18:40:29 i is used to access the index of an innermost loop 18:40:35 which is right? 18:41:11 pattern: i is supposed to be used for the latter purpose 18:41:38 I think the Starting Forth definition is outdated for modern Forths 18:42:18 is there another word that does what I did in Starting Forth? 18:46:57 hmm 18:48:51 maybe 18:49:08 just now noticed that on my gforth, see is completely busted 18:49:23 but 'see r@' does say 'code i' 18:49:27 before hanging 18:50:35 fun 19:09:36 --- quit: TeruFSX (Remote host closed the connection) 19:30:28 --- quit: Deformative (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 20:03:18 --- quit: grai (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20:03:37 --- join: grai 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23:01:30 --- part: ansu left #forth 23:02:15 --- join: ansu (~pspuneets@117.96.36.85) joined #forth 23:09:17 what is your name? 23:12:34 --- part: ansu left #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/11.05.23