00:00:00 --- log: started forth/10.09.26 00:13:37 --- join: ygrek (debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/ygrek) joined #forth 01:07:16 --- quit: nighty^ (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 01:20:35 --- quit: gogonkt (Quit: leaving) 02:24:52 --- quit: dom96 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 02:25:22 --- join: dom96_ (dom96@178.33.135.162) joined #forth 02:28:11 --- nick: dom96_ -> dom96 02:28:36 --- quit: dom96 (Changing host) 02:28:36 --- join: dom96 (dom96@unaffiliated/dom96) joined #forth 02:35:27 --- quit: dom96 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 02:36:19 --- join: dom96 (dom96@unaffiliated/dom96) joined #forth 02:45:46 --- join: gogonkt (~info@183.27.205.251) joined #forth 02:52:19 --- quit: dom96 (Quit: Bye all!) 02:54:44 --- join: dom96 (dom96@unaffiliated/dom96) joined #forth 04:00:18 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 04:02:09 --- quit: nighty^ (Client Quit) 04:08:16 --- quit: mathrick (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 05:07:07 --- join: mathrick (~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk) joined #forth 05:31:34 --- join: _mathrick (~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk) joined #forth 05:31:57 --- quit: mathrick (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05:32:02 --- join: Nobody_1707 (~mdmorri1@adsl-6-116-173.msy.bellsouth.net) joined #forth 05:33:06 --- nick: _mathrick -> mathrick 05:33:25 I realize that the authors of Gforth don't approve of using FOR loops, but why on earth does their implementation of FOR loop n+1 times? 05:34:30 It defeats the entire point of using FOR, namely that it's easier to read than 0 ?DO 05:35:44 Because they don't care about it. 05:35:57 (Just like many other Forth "programmers" do.) 05:36:14 It's the only implementation that acts this way. 05:36:29 In addition, CM did the same, which kind of supports this way. 05:36:35 Wait, really? 05:36:37 No, it isn't the only one. 05:38:30 --- join: Nobody_1707_ (~mdmorri1@adsl-6-116-173.msy.bellsouth.net) joined #forth 05:38:31 --- quit: Nobody_1707 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05:38:31 --- nick: Nobody_1707_ -> Nobody_1707 05:40:24 --- quit: gogonkt (Quit: leaving) 05:45:51 Nobody_1707: if that helps, I use this: 05:46:09 : TIMES 05:46:09 POSTPONE >R POSTPONE BEGIN POSTPONE R> POSTPONE ?DUP 05:46:09 POSTPONE WHILE POSTPONE 1- POSTPONE >R ; IMMEDIATE 05:46:42 I usually use 05:47:14 : TIMES ( i*x xt -- j*x ) 0 ?DO EXECUTE LOOP ; 05:48:02 Mostly I'm annoyed because now I can't do 05:48:41 [undefined] for [if] : FOR 0 POSTPONE LITERAL POSTPONE ?DO ; 05:48:59 IMMEDIATE 05:49:12 : NEXT POSTPONE LOOP ; IMMEDIATE 05:49:16 [then[ 05:49:56 I guess I'll just define it every time like I do with NOT. 05:51:07 --- join: gogonkt (~info@183.27.205.251) joined #forth 05:51:21 --- quit: gogonkt (Client Quit) 05:51:31 --- join: gogonkt (~info@183.27.205.251) joined #forth 05:52:16 I can't even tell how your TIMES works, but that's probably just do to the fact that a lot of POSTPONEs in a row are hard to read. 05:53:28 : test 10 times r@ . repeat ; 05:53:57 Oh. 05:54:27 I get it now. 05:54:36 And my stack effect comment was wrong. 05:55:07 It should have been ( i*x xt n -- j*x ) 05:55:35 And the implementation was wrong too. 05:57:30 It should have been 05:57:31 : TIMES ( i*x xt n -- j*x ) SWAP >R 0 ?DO R@ EXECUTE LOOP R> DROP ; 05:57:34 if you need to have a stack comment, then the definition is to complex 05:57:56 As usual, you should ignore ams. 05:58:08 He has no experience in writing complex programs. 05:58:19 He seems to be parroting CM out of context. 05:58:20 nope. 05:58:41 heck, moore should also be ignored on this topic... 05:59:15 That too. 05:59:44 Yours does seem more readable in a definition. 06:00:24 Not that mine was really meant to be used in a definition. 06:00:26 Nobody_1707: you can help readability using this trick: 06:00:27 : ` POSTPONE POSTPONE ; IMMEDIATE 06:00:39 : TIMES ` >R ` BEGIN ` R> ` ?DUP ` WHILE ` 1- ` >R ; IMMEDIATE 06:01:23 I don't know who proposed ` first, I took it from crcx, IIRC. 06:03:04 On the bright side, I finally managed to get Gforth to work in OS X. 06:03:21 Long story short, do not use the precompiled binaries. 06:03:24 Nobody_1707: and your last definition is problematic when DO keeps index on return stack. 06:03:57 Which happens almost always. 06:15:01 ah man, my main workhorse for a machine is back up and running 06:17:13 --- quit: Nobody_1707 (Read error: Connection timed out) 06:49:18 --- quit: gogonkt (Quit: leaving) 06:53:32 --- join: Al2O3 (~Al2O3@c-67-166-60-221.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:03:32 --- quit: dom96 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 07:05:20 --- join: dom96 (dom96@unaffiliated/dom96) joined #forth 07:15:27 --- join: gogonkt (~info@183.27.205.251) joined #forth 08:08:51 --- quit: gogonkt (Quit: leaving) 10:00:20 --- quit: Al2O3 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 10:00:42 --- join: Al2O3 (~Al2O3@c-67-166-60-221.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 10:00:53 --- quit: Al2O3 (Client Quit) 10:41:06 --- quit: scj (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 10:44:03 --- 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