00:00:00 --- log: started forth/10.09.08 01:51:28 Damn standard. 01:52:09 MOD is defined in two different ways and you have to distinguish among them. 02:06:13 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Serg_Peng@2a00:1820:1:106:21c:25ff:fe59:f17) joined #forth 02:06:47 --- part: Serg_Penguin left #forth 03:03:17 --- join: ygrek (debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/ygrek) joined #forth 03:16:24 --- quit: nighty^ (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 04:38:27 --- quit: ygrek (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 04:51:39 --- quit: schmrkc (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 05:27:06 --- quit: gogonkt (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05:28:53 --- join: gogonkt (~info@183.27.215.30) joined #forth 06:23:24 --- quit: dinya_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:23:51 --- join: dinya_ (~Denis@92.255.128.235) joined #forth 06:27:54 --- quit: scj (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 07:14:14 --- join: scj (syljo361@boneym.mtveurope.org) joined #forth 07:22:10 --- join: Monevo (~nal@adsl-72-50-91-126.prtc.net) joined #forth 07:39:53 --- quit: crcx (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 08:00:33 --- join: zachk (~cozach@pool-71-182-97-88.syrcny.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 08:01:01 : kline ' k width @ repeat ; 08:01:12 now how come i can type that in at the interpreter and it works 08:01:27 but compiling it as a word doesnt work 08:01:34 well it compiles 08:01:41 but when i run it i get an error in gforth 08:11:34 What did you mean for it to do? 08:15:42 --- nick: TreyB_ -> TreyB 08:17:03 --- quit: TreyB (Quit: leaving) 08:17:23 --- join: TreyB (~trey@adsl-99-165-168-78.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 08:40:59 k prints one k to the screen 08:41:07 width is a variable storing 80 08:41:21 and repeat does xt n repeats xt n times 09:09:45 --- join: ygrek (debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/ygrek) joined #forth 09:24:42 --- quit: ygrek (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 09:27:54 If you redefined "repeat", then we need your definition. 09:27:54 If you redefined "'", we need it as well. 09:47:50 --- quit: TreyB (Disconnected by services) 09:56:40 --- join: qFox (~C00K13S@5356B263.cable.casema.nl) joined #forth 10:18:30 --- join: crcx (~crc@li125-93.members.linode.com) joined #forth 10:21:41 --- join: ygrek (debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/ygrek) joined #forth 10:39:36 --- join: kar8nga (~kar8nga@k-165.vc-graz.ac.at) joined #forth 10:58:11 --- quit: kar8nga (Remote host closed the connection) 11:06:47 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 11:15:18 --- join: ASau (~user@83.69.227.32) joined #forth 11:46:40 : fh swap dup 2 < if drop else 1 - dup >r * r> swap recurse then ; 11:46:47 oh snap 11:46:49 one sec 11:47:14 : repeat dup 1 < if drop drop else 1- swap dup execute swap recurse then ; 11:47:23 and i didnt redefine ' 11:48:19 --- quit: gogonkt (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 11:49:57 --- join: gogonkt (~info@113.105.206.7) joined #forth 11:51:18 i figured it out 11:51:25 use ['] in definitions 11:51:45 does [word] mean immediate? 11:52:13 no 11:52:35 brackets have no special meaning 11:53:04 so why do i need them? without them it doesnt work 11:53:14 ' and [ 11:53:16 im using gforth 11:53:22 ' and ['] are two separate functions 11:53:25 oh that has a special meaning 11:53:27 oh ok 11:53:54 ['] is an immediate word, intended for use in a defintion; ' is a normal word, for interpret-time/runtime use 11:54:29 ahh 12:06:44 --- quit: gogonkt (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 12:08:48 --- join: Snoopy_1611 (Snoopy_161@178.4.20.157) joined #forth 12:30:07 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 12:30:58 --- join: ASau (~user@83.69.227.32) joined #forth 12:44:17 --- quit: ygrek (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 12:59:12 --- join: tathi (~josh@dsl-216-227-91-166.fairpoint.net) joined #forth 14:04:36 --- quit: Snoopy_1611 (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 14:04:36 --- join: Snoopy_1611 (Snoopy_161@178.4.20.157) joined #forth 14:23:53 zachk: unless you really have good reason to use recursion, better don't. 14:24:03 zachk: and better don't redefine common words. 14:24:29 (Again, unless you really have good reason to do that.) 14:24:31 im not sure what common words are, and i love recursion 14:24:57 You can find them in any book. 14:25:15 In addition, one of latest drafts of standard is publicly available. 14:25:26 cool 14:25:36 is there a forth that runs on a ti-calculator? 14:25:39 Forth is not Scheme. 14:26:08 i went scheme->haskell 14:26:11 Use loops instead of recursion where possible. 14:26:13 but im just sort of stalled 14:26:53 so whats wrong with recursion in forth? 14:27:04 im not pushing more addresses on the stack am i? 14:27:10 oh i probably am arent i 14:27:13 Nothing is wrong, but it isn't effective. 14:27:18 then i can blow the return stack 14:27:31 Yes, you can. 14:27:55 In any case, loop is better expression of loop than recursion. 14:28:06 This is what Scheme did wrong. 14:28:15 i havent used a loop in like 3 or 4 years 14:28:47 i havent mutated state in over 2 years 14:28:53 Yeah. 14:29:06 Brain damage. 14:29:28 Only the opposite one than legendary BASIC. 14:29:40 well more like not being able to get stuff done without a lot of abstract nonsense 14:30:04 This is exactly what Scheme and Haskell do wrong: 14:30:18 Scheme expressing loops with recursion, 14:30:34 and Haskell expressing state changes with monads. 14:30:56 with haskell you can cut way down on errors because of that 14:31:04 i detest java 14:31:13 This isn't specific to Haskell. 14:31:22 There're other approaches to this. 14:31:49 Basically, Haskell does it exactly Java way: 14:31:53 * zachk goes to let the dog out, BUT will be right back 14:32:13 introduce some kind of "universe" object and work with (parts of) it. 14:33:37 --- quit: qFox (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:37:16 in haskell memoizing a function is a very advanced topic 14:37:23 and will eat a huge amount of memory 14:37:42 Yes. 14:37:57 Haskell does it wrong: 14:38:14 simple things must be simple first. 14:38:18 i got a palm tx, an old gameboy, and a gameboy advanced, and a tic calc 14:38:26 i cant get haskell running on any of those 14:38:55 You can get Forth running on Palm T|X. 14:39:03 I guarantee that. :p 14:39:04 yea i have quartus forth demo for it 14:40:04 cant get my palm keyboard working though, i only have vista+ and i need something lower to load software onto my palm 14:40:24 I don't know quartus forth. 14:40:29 my laptop battery life is only like 2 hours 14:40:41 and it weighs like 7 pounds 14:40:44 We supported word completion. 14:40:51 ? 14:40:59 like tab completion of words 14:41:06 Yes. 14:41:23 But it isn't "tab completion". 14:41:43 It is "word completion," because it completes words rather than "tabs." 14:42:00 oh 14:42:52 so whats a good forth for doing games? 14:43:06 If I learn Tk, I may port something like that. 14:43:07 like keyup keydown hardware accelerated graphics 14:43:15 ive tried tcl/tk before 14:43:19 tk is horribly slow 14:43:28 or it was last time i used it 14:43:28 I'm not sure. 14:43:35 You said you used TCL. 14:43:43 TCL is slow. 14:43:45 and perl and python 14:43:52 The reason is simple: EIAS. 14:44:00 everything is a string 15:45:52 this just took me forever http://pastebin.com/UJXdsDhs 15:46:49 its in retro forth 15:47:18 : fib ( n -- n' ) 0 1 rot 0 ?do tuck + loop nip ; 15:47:42 Think straightforward. 15:48:01 Recursion is evil. 15:49:54 let fibs = 1:1:zipWith (+) fibs (tail fibs) 15:50:00 i think thats even shorter 15:50:54 Except it is convoluted in a way to use infinite sequences. 15:51:10 : fib 0 1 rot 0 ?do tuck + loop nip ; 15:51:27 And it is still longer. 15:51:58 ok ok you win :D 15:52:16 i spent like an hour getting errors cause i had > 0 if 15:52:16 You also forgot to select the proper member. 15:52:27 fibs!!0 15:52:28 etc 15:53:40 both ways hurt your brain i think 15:53:48 ive just spent more time hurting my brain in haskell 15:53:59 No. 15:54:18 Forth doesn't use that convoluted ways via infinite sequences. 15:54:49 you dont have to 15:54:54 but i find it beautiful 15:55:06 Beautiful? 15:55:18 The syntax is ugly. 15:55:27 infinity and an infinity in a line of code 15:55:53 im a math major in college :p 15:56:11 i sit in cs classes and dont learn anything 15:56:18 at least using forth im learning something 15:56:39 Infinity is imaginary object when you can't deal with it in straightforward way. 15:56:55 nah 15:57:01 you can just add it in 15:57:07 You can't. 15:57:11 yea you can 15:57:15 There're no infinite objects in nature. 15:57:28 All sets are finite. 15:57:29 the horizon? 15:57:44 Horizon is 5 km from you. 15:57:50 i guess you dont like calculus then 15:57:53 i dont either 15:58:02 On contrary, I like calculus. 15:58:36 It is the best illustration to the point above. 15:59:07 All insane objects exist because of idea that you can build infinite objects. 16:00:06 * zachk is insane btw ;) 16:00:22 I know. 16:00:29 hehe you can tell? :D 16:00:38 You're studying math. 16:00:49 If you were sane, you would study sciences. 16:01:29 the hard part about sciences all boil down to math/computation 16:01:44 This is plain wrong. 16:02:12 ok do physics with no math 16:02:17 I do. 16:02:21 how? 16:02:29 And I did. 16:02:47 Experimental work. 16:02:56 you had to measure something 16:03:09 Yes, not calculate it. 16:04:09 all the insane things in math derive from proofs that arent constructive 16:04:39 usually using the axiom of choice and/or the law of the excluded middle 16:05:03 well it was nice talking to you 16:05:11 im gonna go play violent video games 16:05:13 latter 16:05:28 Constructive math isn't sane enough anyway. 16:06:29 It doesn't deal well with paradox of induction. 17:44:54 --- quit: ASau (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:45:34 --- join: ASau (~user@83.69.227.32) joined #forth 18:14:46 --- quit: tathi (Quit: leaving) 19:00:41 --- join: gogonkt (~info@113.105.206.81) joined #forth 19:46:02 --- join: |dinya_| (~Denis@92.255.128.235) joined #forth 19:46:47 --- quit: dinya_ (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 20:02:19 --- join: dinya_ (~Denis@92.255.128.235) joined #forth 20:04:27 --- join: _dinya__ (~Denis@92.255.128.235) joined #forth 20:04:44 --- quit: |dinya_| (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 20:06:47 --- quit: dinya_ (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 20:37:25 --- quit: Monevo (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 21:04:40 --- join: Monevo (~nal@72.50.91.126) joined #forth 21:08:42 --- quit: crc (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 21:10:35 --- join: crc (~charlesch@184.77.185.20) joined #forth 21:35:49 --- quit: crc (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 21:36:50 --- join: crc (~charlesch@184.77.185.20) joined #forth 21:49:47 --- join: schme (~marcus@c83-254-197-212.bredband.comhem.se) joined #forth 21:49:47 --- quit: schme (Changing host) 21:49:47 --- join: schme (~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme) joined #forth 21:49:54 --- nick: schme -> schmrkc 23:06:31 --- join: ygrek (debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/ygrek) joined #forth 23:20:32 --- quit: ygrek (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 23:26:21 --- join: ygrek (debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/ygrek) joined #forth 23:55:07 --- quit: ygrek (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/10.09.08