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12:59:21 There's nothing to compare, use pointer-count pairs. 12:59:50 --- quit: schmrkc (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 13:00:05 --- join: lulinha (~dummy@nkvd.ath.cx) joined #forth 13:00:05 --- part: lulinha left #forth 13:02:42 --- join: lulinha (~dummy@nkvd.ath.cx) joined #forth 13:02:42 --- part: lulinha left #forth 13:04:24 ASau: that's what I figured, but I wasn't sure if there's a good argument for zero terminated or a length prefix. 13:04:59 There're many arguments against NUL-terminated strings. 13:05:04 --- quit: a3i (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 13:05:06 Even in "C" itself. 13:05:11 --- join: schmrkc (~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme) joined #forth 13:05:30 --- quit: aguai (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 13:05:41 --- quit: aguaithefreak (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 13:05:59 As for length prefix, it is good way to store string, 13:05:59 but it is hard to work with those. 13:07:57 The only problem I can see with a length prefix is if I need to use a substring. I'd have to copy the substring elsewhere to add the prefix. 13:08:18 It is big problem actually. 13:08:43 Most of operations with text relate to parsing. 13:13:10 --- quit: schmrkc (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 13:13:28 Is anyone planning to attend EuroForth? 13:14:14 Someone is, perhaps. 13:14:30 Not me, I've attended more relevant conference already. 13:16:22 I'm sure it is relevant to some people 13:16:41 Conference with out attendees is rather a non-conference 13:16:47 Sure, but look at its proceedings. 13:17:16 --- join: a3i (~aguai@111-243-4-235.dynamic.hinet.net) joined #forth 13:17:30 They could have none as well, and then I'd rather attend anything more influential. 13:17:58 --- join: aguai (~aguai@111-243-4-235.dynamic.hinet.net) joined #forth 13:18:17 --- join: aguaithefreak (~aguai@111-243-4-235.dynamic.hinet.net) joined #forth 13:20:14 Influential usually means following the herd, not necessary a bad thing depending on your perspective 13:20:57 --- join: schmrkc (~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme) joined #forth 13:21:01 "Influential" usually means _leading_ the herd. 13:21:15 ASau, Yeah that was kind of my point 13:21:25 I suppose I could have phrased it clearer 13:21:42 It's not the same as "drinking the bear near the road" what Forth community usually does. 13:22:03 drinking bears is a dangerous business, hehe 13:22:14 It is backyard rather than road anyway. 13:22:25 :D 13:22:46 I like interactive programming environments 13:23:02 There're much better than Forth around. 13:23:03 Is there another option besides Forth in the embedded field 13:23:23 Look around and you'll find. 13:24:19 I know a few, can't think of any that could fit in such limited environments 13:24:33 There're folks performing QA tasks like formal proofs of the mission critical code. 13:24:41 Thing that you can't do in Forth. 13:24:56 Admittedly the Riscy Pygness I am using uses the host quite a bit to reduce the memory requirements 13:25:46 If you have host to use, then you can afford non-archaic tools. 13:26:56 I was thinking it might allow a Lisp 13:27:10 But there does not seem to be one available 13:27:17 ?? 13:27:30 What is the problem exactly? 13:27:54 I know people doing or did remote control tasks in Lisp. 13:28:06 None really, I'm just tinkering, making some simple MCU projects 13:28:12 And that's what you actually do with "ambilical" Forth. 13:28:36 (How is it spelled correctly?) 13:29:00 Umbilical 13:29:59 I have very limited targets here, 128KB ROM, 16KB RAM 13:30:33 16K RAM is quite large. 13:30:56 hehe compared to my last chip it certainly is, hhee 13:30:57 Instruction set? (If not top secret.) 13:30:57 hehe 13:31:14 Nah, I just tinker for my own enjoyment 13:31:15 ARM 13:31:23 Thumb or native? 13:31:26 do large 13:31:27 LPC2119 to be precise 13:31:45 This forth uses native as far as I know 13:32:20 So, ca. 8K for full-blown development system. 13:32:27 in Forth. 13:33:03 My earlier board only had 32KB ROM and 8KB RAM 13:33:10 And ca 1-2K for primitive monitor (drivers included). 13:33:40 enough, amforth only need 8K in avr chip 13:33:44 And you use any modern language that is more powerful than Forth. 13:34:26 What modern language 13:35:02 Honestly, is there some one I have missed? 13:35:53 Almost anything other than Algoloids. 13:37:04 BTW, have you ever noticed how weak is Forth in handling contexts? 13:37:19 You have very restricted form in terms of wordlists, 13:37:30 ASau, Have you tried Factor, I know it's not really suitable for embedded, I'm just curious of your opinion 13:37:31 but you can't handle them in a meaningful way. 13:37:48 No, I didn't try it. 13:37:55 I tried Joy once. 13:38:17 factor not for embedded 13:38:30 Actually, this is the most interesting direction Forth could evolve. 13:38:36 gogonkt, Well according to the Factor web page, yes 13:38:42 If it weren't run by stupid engineers. 13:38:50 :> 13:39:32 I wanted to give these stack based languages a try out 13:41:33 --- quit: ygrek_ (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 13:41:34 they suck 13:41:36 don't do it. 13:42:09 There must be merit 13:42:14 haha 13:42:17 there is a lot of merit. 13:42:27 but it's kind of like motorcycles: I don't recommend them to anyone. 13:42:39 you either understand why you would want to do something, or you don't. 13:43:13 You can only come to that understanding through education and/or experience 13:43:25 Rarely is understanding inbuilt 13:43:28 nah, there's a gut draw. 13:43:43 if you don't look at Forth and think 'that looks cool', you probably won't like it. 13:43:51 hehe, my gut says there must be some merit 13:43:55 yah. 13:43:56 exactly. 13:44:06 there totally is.. Forth is great. 13:44:50 I'll know more after I finish this project 13:45:23 Its only a small one, but complex enough due to my limited electronics and forth programming experience 13:46:14 the fact I can rebuild my entire kernel and application in 10ms is pretty great. 13:46:36 that, and a JTAG reflash, is faster than compiling a basic gcc-based firmware. 13:47:55 --- quit: schmrkc (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 13:52:05 --- join: schmrkc (~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme) joined #forth 13:53:21 --- quit: mathrick (Read error: Operation timed out) 13:53:49 --- join: mathrick (~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk) joined #forth 13:57:23 --- quit: schmrkc (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 14:05:14 --- join: schmrkc (~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme) joined #forth 14:19:46 --- quit: impomatic (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.11/20100701023340]) 14:32:40 --- quit: schmrkc (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 14:35:23 --- join: schmrkc (~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme) joined #forth 14:45:20 --- quit: schmrkc (Ping 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