00:00:00 --- log: started forth/10.05.11
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08:43:05 <Pusdesris> alex4nder: In your C->forth compiler, how large did your return/parameter stack usually get?
08:58:03 <Pusdesris> Ugh, downloading acm articles is always such a pain.
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09:22:54 <Pusdesris> Anyone here with an acm account?
09:23:15 <Pusdesris> I am trying to get this, and apparently my school account is not good enough: http://portal.acm.org.proxy.lib.umich.edu/citation.cfm?id=165628.165635&coll=portal&dl=GUIDE&idx=J696&part=newsletter&WantType=Newsletters&title=ACM%20SIGFORTH%20Newsletter&CFID=89951182&CFTOKEN=87982716#
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09:51:41 <alex4nder> Pusdesris: I don't remember how deep it got.. 
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10:06:11 <Pusdesris> I found some sources for smallc.
10:06:19 <Pusdesris> I am going to port smallc to my assembly if I ever get that far.
10:06:33 <Pusdesris> Then add features as I need them.
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13:07:50 <forther> hi
13:08:16 <schme> hi
13:14:12 <Deformative> hi
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13:16:49 <forther> some time ago I compared the speed of swiftforth and gforth on linux, 3.8ghz xenon and was very dissapointed
13:17:02 <forther> sf was almost 2 times slower, then gforth
13:17:22 <forther> and few days ago I did almost the same comparison
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13:17:47 <forther> but this time it was core 2 duo and OS X
13:18:24 <forther> guess what. sf was almost 5 times faster, then gforth
13:19:03 <forther> I'm not sure what part of core 2 duo made this huge difference
13:19:25 <alex4nder> I'd expect swiftforth to always be way faster.
13:19:28 <alex4nder> that's strange
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13:19:41 <alex4nder> I use MPE's Forth cross tools on x86, and they're way quick.
13:20:24 <forther> I know. I agree. I was very surprised when gforth was better on my 3.8g xeon
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13:31:26 <TreyB> What exactly did you check?
13:32:01 <TreyB> I didn't know Forth, Inc. has OS X tools.
13:32:52 <forther> I ran some pretty time consuming simulation on VentureForth
13:33:41 <forther> yes, Forth Inc. has sf for osx. it's 32 bits and is in beta
13:49:21 <TreyB> How did a native code-gen application run slower than an interpreted VM?  Unless it does a lot of I/O and the SF version has poor I/O performance.
13:58:30 <forther> no I/O
13:58:55 <forther> my understanding *was*
13:59:15 <forther> because SF mix together the code and data
13:59:47 <forther> each write leads to cach reset
14:00:05 <forther> but how come it is not the case on core 2 duo?
14:04:44 <TreyB> Different cache granularity, or some such?
14:05:38 <forther> no idea
14:06:29 <TreyB> Mixing code and data leads to disasterous performance on many x86 implementations.
14:08:38 <forther> BTW my xeon has 2m of cache and my core 2 duo 4m
14:15:01 <Deformative> Oh goodness.
14:15:11 <Deformative> I wish I could have 4m of cache on my core.
14:15:13 <Deformative> xD
14:15:15 <Deformative> I wouldn't need ram.
14:15:27 <Deformative> I still probably won't need ram, but that's not the point.
14:16:56 <TreyB> The entire Apollo program would have fit into cache a couple of times over :-)
14:17:59 <Deformative> I hate sdram.
14:18:09 <Deformative> Scorge of modern computing.
14:18:34 <Deformative> People say, "hey ram is cheap! It must make my program faster" So they eat it up like candy.
14:18:42 <Deformative> And we get slow/bloated applications. :(
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15:09:05 <forther> hehe ... the irony is I use 4meg of cache to simulate the code, using 40x64 words of ram 
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15:55:33 <Deformative> Hey KipIngram.
15:55:50 <Deformative> I am lowering my wordsize down to 16 again.
15:56:16 <Deformative> But I have some interesting new things I am going to implement.
15:56:50 <Deformative> As an example, I can use the extra bit to represent an implicit ubreak/ret
15:57:02 <Deformative> And I am going to add a ternary opcode
15:57:10 <Deformative> For if/elses.
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17:59:57 <Deformative> I am trying to decide if I want ot build in switch statement functionality into the core.
18:00:04 <Deformative> It would be rather difficult, but doable...
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19:10:09 <alex4nder> yoh
19:10:53 <Deformative> Hi.
19:13:58 <Deformative> What's up alex4nder?
19:14:28 <Deformative> You aren't the same alex4nder I emailed today, are you?
19:21:53 <alex4nder> I don't think so.
19:22:02 <alex4nder> what'd you mail that alex4nder about?
19:22:40 <Deformative> He wrote a C-to-Forth compiler.
19:23:25 <Deformative> And there was an ACM article about it.
19:23:36 <Deformative> Which I don't have access to.
19:23:49 <Deformative> So I asked if he still had any information about it he could send me.
19:43:15 <alex4nder> oh no, not me
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20:27:59 <LisaNowak2> hi
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20:37:34 <Deformative> I loop-hog.
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21:07:42 <loop-hog> deformative
21:08:12 <loop-hog> kind of nerding around on the 'ol computer, not finding much exciting though
21:08:23 <loop-hog> i found a usb drive built into a lego brick
21:08:29 <loop-hog> wow . . . not
21:09:21 <loop-hog> it might be kind cool if there was a blog/site dedicated to I.T. fails and blunders
21:10:34 <loop-hog> it might be useful too
21:11:41 <loop-hog> http://myfoodlooksfunny.com/
21:11:42 <loop-hog> is cutre
21:11:45 <loop-hog> is cute
21:15:37 <Deformative> The strawberry made me hungry.
21:15:58 <loop-hog> nom nom
21:16:08 <loop-hog> thinking.....
21:16:09 <Deformative> ...for some strawberries.
21:16:23 <loop-hog> if moore's law no longer applies, then why even buy a new game system?
21:16:29 <loop-hog> would it be that much better?
21:16:45 <loop-hog> I had strawberries a few days ago, they were yummah
21:16:53 <Deformative> Who says moore's law no longer applies?
21:17:05 <loop-hog> well... people on the  FIG mailing list for one
21:18:08 <Deformative> I really hope that doesn't spread.
21:18:25 <loop-hog> I want to take a handfull of  ga144   chips and hide it inside of an Atari 2 Flashback, as a kind of silly joke
21:18:31 <loop-hog> wanna see my atari?
21:18:32 <loop-hog> no
21:18:37 <loop-hog> please?
21:19:14 <Deformative> What would you do with the ga144 that would look impressive.
21:19:30 <loop-hog> make a doom clone
21:19:32 <Deformative> I cannot immmagine programming in such parallel.
21:19:39 <loop-hog> I'm really just kidding
21:20:18 <loop-hog> I'm at Safeway
21:20:22 <loop-hog> they have good bandwidth
21:20:30 <loop-hog> but they will be closing the area in 10 min
21:20:36 <loop-hog> 9:30 is the cut off time
21:20:42 <loop-hog> gosh
21:21:17 <Deformative> Well, if they decide that cpu technology cannot be made more dense, perhaps they will focus on power consumption more.
21:21:26 <Deformative> Or sram.
21:23:01 <loop-hog> yeah
21:23:09 <loop-hog> or parrallel, like PS3
21:23:14 <loop-hog> with it's cell chips
21:23:16 <Deformative> I hate parallel.
21:23:27 <loop-hog> I doubt if many PS3 games are programmed in parallel
21:23:41 <Deformative> Yeah.
21:23:47 <Deformative> It is just too damn difficult.
21:23:53 <loop-hog> I played a gundam game awhile ago in the store, and it was way too easy, not impressed at all
21:24:54 <loop-hog> Maybe they can do something more with networked games or something to extend the life of what they already have?
21:25:40 <Deformative> Real time raytracing will probably be common someday.
21:25:48 <Deformative> I don't really look forward to such things though.
21:25:52 <Deformative> I like 2d.
21:25:54 <loop-hog> maybe
21:25:57 <loop-hog> I like 2d too
21:25:57 <Deformative> 3d is just too complicated.
21:26:02 <Deformative> Most of the time.
21:26:11 <loop-hog> I like some 3d
21:27:08 <Deformative> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/Transistor_Count_and_Moore's_Law_-_2008.svg
21:27:16 <Deformative> I don't see moore's law dying.
21:27:50 <loop-hog> I need to leave in two minutes, the security lady is going to kick me out
21:27:52 <loop-hog> bye
21:27:53 <loop-hog> :)
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22:06:10 <alex4nder> what up
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