00:00:00 --- log: started forth/10.05.01 00:23:03 --- quit: dinya_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 00:24:40 --- join: dinya_ (~Denis@92.255.128.235) joined #forth 00:32:09 --- join: qFox (~C00K13S@5356B263.cable.casema.nl) joined #forth 00:33:21 --- join: |dinya_| (~Denis@92.255.128.235) joined #forth 00:35:41 --- quit: dinya_ (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 00:56:28 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 01:08:59 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 02:19:35 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 02:31:53 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 02:42:25 --- quit: gogonkt (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 02:44:10 --- join: gogonkt (~info@59.38.223.203) joined #forth 03:03:47 --- quit: gogonkt (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 03:04:03 --- join: gogonkt (~info@59.38.223.203) joined #forth 03:41:03 Reading the chuck moore blog here. I read it as he is on social security? Boggles the mind that he can't get a job somewhere. 03:46:43 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 03:49:35 schme: it isn't unusual. 03:57:59 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 04:15:11 ASau: I guess he is too obsessed with forthish stuff to actually get a job in the "real world" :S 04:27:25 --- quit: mathrick (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 04:31:16 --- join: mathrick (~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk) joined #forth 04:46:58 --- quit: gnomon (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 04:47:51 --- join: gnomon (~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 04:57:39 --- join: tathi (~josh@dsl-216-227-91-166.fairpoint.net) joined #forth 05:07:17 re: c18 having a smaller last opcode slot: I have the impression that Chuck's instruction word is a shift register, so the processor doesn't "know what slot it's looking at and force the last bit", it just shifts in extra bits (0 bits IIRC, but could be 1 or sign bits)... 05:07:59 In my (fairly limited) experiments, it didn't seem difficult to manage in the compiler... 05:10:08 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05:22:57 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 05:48:00 --- join: segher (~segher@84-105-60-153.cable.quicknet.nl) joined #forth 06:02:12 --- quit: Al2O3 (Quit: Al2O3) 06:08:34 damn it's hard to write a good DO...LOOP (?DO and +LOOP do not exactly make this easier) 06:29:16 Yeah 06:31:03 Welcome to Forth, the simplest language here and there! 06:33:59 --- quit: mathrick (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 06:34:00 well my target cpu isn't exactly fast, so every cycle counts. i don't do terribly much optimisation (yet), no register allocation and stack slot stuff 06:34:15 only peepholing really 06:35:30 Are you sure you want DO LOOP then? 06:36:26 a) ISO Forth requires DO LOOP ; b) it is way too convenient 06:38:54 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 06:41:45 DO...LOOP is not more expensive per loop than FOR...NEXT , if that's what you mean 06:42:13 only slightly more expensive in loop setup/teardown 06:43:13 I'm not sure any pragmatic person cares of ISO Forth. 06:43:53 huh? why not? 06:44:25 you could just as well argue that people shouldn't use Forth at all 06:45:36 Because one cares about standard if it helps. 06:45:50 I don't see how following standard helps in Forth. 06:46:33 i don't have to educate my users. that helps. 06:46:52 commonality helps in other places as well (code reuse) 06:47:12 and i don't have to design stuff that is standardised anyway 06:47:25 How much code do you reuse? 06:47:34 lots 06:47:40 That's the main question I find it hard in Forth. 06:48:12 i actually took most of my cross-compiler (for a 64-bit ITC system) and ported it to a 16-bit native code system in a few days 06:49:27 code reuse is not the same as "code works unmodified" :-) 06:52:36 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 06:56:43 If you allow modification, then there's less sense in following standard. 07:01:14 you're missing the point 07:01:24 --- join: TR2N (email@89-180-137-55.net.novis.pt) joined #forth 07:03:32 --- join: GoNoGo (~GoNoGo@2a01:e35:2ec5:dd70:a952:4300:8411:973f) joined #forth 07:07:44 What is the point? 07:50:08 segher: I agree completely. If I can reuse snippets of code, general structures, and *solution concepts* then I am very happy. I just don't need to be able to take entire libraries of code and move them from one system to another and have them work. 07:51:13 Portability and reusability is *great*; don't get me wrong. But, like anything else, it can be taken to the point of an obsession. 07:51:19 Then it becomes a negative. 07:59:18 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 08:11:44 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 08:42:51 --- quit: gnomon (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 08:43:11 --- join: gnomon (~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 08:47:44 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 08:49:14 --- join: ASau (~user@83.69.227.32) joined #forth 08:55:37 --- quit: crc (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 08:56:51 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 08:57:23 --- join: crc (~charlesch@184.77.185.20) joined #forth 08:59:04 --- join: ASau (~user@83.69.227.32) joined #forth 09:17:30 --- quit: GoNoGo (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]) 09:26:08 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 09:33:23 kipingram: the illusion of "libraries" that can be used unmodified for purposes that they weren't designed for is, well, an illusion :-) 09:38:25 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 10:40:45 --- join: mathrick (~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk) joined #forth 10:52:59 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 11:05:32 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 11:25:49 --- join: docl (~luke@216-161-87-126.ptld.qwest.net) joined #forth 11:59:02 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 12:11:32 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 12:16:58 --- quit: gnomon (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 12:17:16 --- join: gnomon (~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 13:15:05 --- quit: ygrek (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 13:17:05 --- join: ygrek (debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/ygrek) joined #forth 13:26:13 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 13:38:17 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 13:43:03 hey 13:45:48 --- join: Al2O3_ (~Al2O3@cpe-98-27-177-69.neo.res.rr.com) joined #forth 14:26:20 --- quit: ygrek (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 14:38:33 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14:42:00 --- quit: alex4nder (Quit: Lost terminal) 14:50:46 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 15:27:01 --- quit: qFox (Quit: Time for cookies!) 15:45:55 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 15:58:36 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 16:18:09 --- quit: gnomon (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 16:18:27 --- join: gnomon (~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 16:58:37 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 17:11:03 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 17:15:59 --- quit: docl (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 17:18:45 --- join: skas (~skas@ppp121-45-201-242.lns20.cbr1.internode.on.net) joined #forth 17:25:00 --- quit: skas (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [SeaMonkey 2.0.4/20100428031546]) 17:37:52 --- quit: gnomon (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 17:59:23 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 18:02:05 --- join: ASau (~user@83.69.227.32) joined #forth 18:19:08 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 18:31:39 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 19:45:55 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 19:57:30 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 20:25:00 --- quit: tathi (Quit: leaving) 20:33:38 --- quit: Al2O3_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 21:06:08 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 21:08:07 --- join: docl (~luke@216-161-87-126.ptld.qwest.net) joined #forth 21:14:10 :-) I am brewing beer tonight for the first time in ages. A five gallon batch of "Blue Moon" clone. 21:14:39 Got off to a bit of a bumpy start (I'm out of practice) but nothing damaging. Wort's coming to a boil now; so far so good. Smells good. 21:19:27 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 21:51:18 --- join: Al2O3 (~Al2O3@cpe-98-27-177-69.neo.res.rr.com) joined #forth 22:45:39 --- quit: Al2O3 (Quit: Al2O3) 23:15:09 --- join: Al2O3 (~Al2O3@cpe-98-27-177-69.neo.res.rr.com) joined #forth 23:23:38 --- quit: Al2O3 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 23:25:26 Ok. Wort is in the fermenter. Now if I can wake tomorrow to a bubbling airlock... 23:29:13 --- nick: KipIngram -> KipIngram-zzz 23:36:26 --- join: ygrek (debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/ygrek) joined #forth 23:36:52 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 23:50:02 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 23:55:17 --- join: qFox (~C00K13S@5356B263.cable.casema.nl) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/10.05.01