00:00:00 --- log: started forth/10.04.10
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00:21:31 <Pusdesris> Hooray! My forth is basically done.
00:21:59 <Pusdesris> Just some testing, error throwing, and writing a demo program remains.
00:43:48 <ASau> Everything is nice except that you have made enough for your prof to ban Forth from future use.
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08:08:08 <crc> ASau: why would his prof ban forth?
08:10:12 <ASau> In any long-term project and in academy especially, it is
08:10:12 <ASau> very important that solution is clean.
08:11:13 <ASau> And it is preferred that the solution complies to some accepted standard.
08:11:47 <ASau> Instead, Pusdesris implemented quite uncommon these days ITC FIG model,
08:11:54 <ASau> plus he made some hacks.
08:12:20 <ASau> I'm quite not sure that he implemented Forth properly either,
08:12:24 <ASau> but that's another story.
08:12:56 <ASau> Given that he targeted obsolete standard he could implement anything.
08:15:20 <ASau> If given all listed drawbacks, his prof continues to mess
08:15:21 <ASau> with Forth in future, I'll call him very brave man.
08:15:39 <ASau> That's all.
08:15:42 <crc> ok
08:17:25 <ASau> In general what can be tolerated (to some extent) in engineering
08:17:32 <ASau> can not be tolerated in academia.
08:18:30 <ASau> in teaching.
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08:30:30 <ASau> crc: do you have any experience in profiling in-Forth?
08:31:27 <crc> my forth has some profiling tools, but they're implemented in the misc emulator, not forth itself
08:32:36 <ASau> Alright, eternal Forth problem.
08:33:11 <ASau> If you want to do anything, you have to do it yourself from the very ground level up.
08:34:14 <crc> my forth isn't standard; I (and others) built almost everything for it
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10:04:33 <Pusdesris> ASau: It would not take much work to make it follow ansi standard.
10:05:32 <Pusdesris> And I thought I /ignored you... I suppose you still come up under this nick.
10:05:34 <ASau> The main problem with Forth isn't in following some standard.
10:06:30 <Pusdesris> What is it?
10:07:20 <Pusdesris> If it's documentation, then no worries, half of this class is technical writing, so my team has been documenting like crazy.
10:07:40 <ASau> The main problem is communication.
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10:07:57 <ASau> You are only one person, you come and go.
10:08:10 <ASau> Consider what happens next year.
10:09:10 <ASau> There's implementation of language with bad history,
10:09:11 <ASau> with obsolete documentation and with implementation of unknown quality.
10:09:36 <ASau> Even if you make it perfect along with documentation.
10:10:23 <Pusdesris> ASau: Well, it is an intro course.  I do not expect him to use it again, and if he does, he will hire me as an instructional aid.
10:11:27 <ASau> You have non-zero chance to make Forth accepted _only_ if you have followers,
10:11:28 <ASau> fellow students that succede in Forth programming.
10:11:43 <ASau> Or your teacher succedes in this.
10:12:04 <ASau> If nothing of this happens, there's no reason to hire you as instructor.
10:12:42 <Pusdesris> Well, we present our work friday.
10:12:55 <ASau> Good luck.
10:13:31 <ASau> BTW, how did you resolve your W-I problem?
10:15:50 <Pusdesris> Yep.
10:15:51 <KipIngram> Pusdesris: Congrats.
10:15:59 <Pusdesris> Wait, WI problem?
10:16:14 <Pusdesris> I resolved all my provblems, but I don't remember any than involed WI.
10:16:36 <ASau> AFAIR, you wanted to skip introducing W register by using some hacking I usage.
10:16:52 <Pusdesris> Oh, I just used a general register for it.
10:17:13 <Pusdesris> Since you can reuse that register for other things when not calling.
10:17:29 <ASau> So you did introduce it in the end.
10:17:33 <Pusdesris> Well, brb the cafeteria is about to close.
10:17:36 <Pusdesris> ASau: Yep.
10:17:39 <Pusdesris> And thanks KipIngram.
10:17:44 <KipIngram> You bet.
10:17:55 <KipIngram> Just paying forward.
10:31:43 <Pusdesris> I am back.
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12:00:16 <ubuntu-nathan> guys
12:00:24 <ubuntu-nathan> Someone here knows dsForth?
12:00:30 <ubuntu-nathan> that is a Forth compiler
12:00:33 <ubuntu-nathan> Someone?
13:04:57 * crc doesn't run windows, so can't help with dsforth
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14:51:06 <ubuntu-nathan> crc
14:51:14 <ubuntu-nathan> I'm using it on Windows CE
14:51:16 <ubuntu-nathan> ;)
14:51:28 <ubuntu-nathan> I don't run Windows too. See my nick
14:55:55 <crc> wince is dead :)
14:57:46 <ubuntu-nathan> no
14:58:04 <ubuntu-nathan> Windows Mobile 6 is Windows CE 6 Palm Sized
14:58:04 <crc> mostly :)
14:58:06 <ubuntu-nathan> ;)
14:58:25 <crc> wm6 is dead enough. it has no real future at this point
14:58:39 <ubuntu-nathan> no
14:58:55 <ubuntu-nathan> how about wm7?
15:00:10 <crc> breaks compatibility
15:00:18 <ubuntu-nathan> :/
15:00:25 <ubuntu-nathan> what you think is he future?
15:00:29 <ubuntu-nathan> crc
15:00:56 <crc> hard to say. I'm using blackberry and symbian devices now; android looks promising
15:01:07 <ubuntu-nathan> hmm
15:01:10 <ubuntu-nathan> yeah
15:01:14 <crc> iphoneos is out for me due to new restrictions on the languages you can use with it
15:01:19 <ubuntu-nathan> yeah
15:01:36 <ubuntu-nathan> iCrap will be dead in some years
15:01:58 <ubuntu-nathan> iCrap version 1 and 2(iPhone and iPad)
15:02:00 <ubuntu-nathan> ;)
15:02:06 <ubuntu-nathan> but
15:02:38 <ubuntu-nathan> crc: What are your currently platforms(for development and runing Forth apps and compilers)?
15:03:09 <crc> linux, haiku, os x, and various web browsers
15:03:18 <ubuntu-nathan> hmm
15:03:19 <ubuntu-nathan> nice
15:03:32 <crc> I *can* work on iphone/ipod touch (jailbroken), aix, and various bsd systems as well
15:03:36 <ubuntu-nathan> I've already tried Haiku, but I don't liked
15:04:15 <crc> I loved beos; I hope haiku succeeds in recreating it someday
15:04:24 <ubuntu-nathan> I hate OS X, and love the classic versions of Mac OS(pre-OS X)
15:04:28 <crc> I use linux on my servers, and a macos x system at home
15:04:30 <ubuntu-nathan> hmm
15:04:47 <ubuntu-nathan> I have already developed a OS
15:04:56 <ubuntu-nathan> called SimplyOS
15:04:58 <ubuntu-nathan> :)
15:05:06 <ubuntu-nathan> all using Assembly
15:05:11 <crc> I did hobby os development years ago
15:05:23 <ubuntu-nathan> now I want to take a look on how to develop a version of it using Forth
15:05:36 <ubuntu-nathan> but I don't know where to start
15:05:38 <ubuntu-nathan> :(
15:07:19 <ubuntu-nathan> crc: You know where I can start?
15:07:26 <crc> don't
15:07:31 <ubuntu-nathan> ok
15:07:34 <ubuntu-nathan> thanks
15:07:37 <ubuntu-nathan> :)
15:08:15 <crc> seriously, two paths: 1) cross compile forth code into the kernel, etc for your os or 2) write a bootable forth and then write everything in that
15:08:35 <crc> I explored (2) quite a bit. the major downside is hardware support
15:08:52 <ubuntu-nathan> hmm
15:09:01 <ubuntu-nathan> thanks
15:09:32 <crc> for (1), I had done some work (sed scripts to translate forth to assembly, using parts of an older retro kernel as support code) for making small apps for linux
15:09:52 <crc> see http://retro.tunes.org/pub/sedforth.tar.gz
15:10:18 <ubuntu-nathan> hmm
15:10:34 <ubuntu-nathan> what is sedforth?
15:11:11 <crc> my sed and shell scripts to translate forth to assembly
15:11:21 <ubuntu-nathan> ahh
15:11:31 <crc> originally intended to be used for creating linux kernel modules
15:12:20 <crc> (I had played with embedding a retro7 varient into the linux kernel, as a loadable module)
15:12:25 <ubuntu-nathan> nice
15:13:02 <crc> I moved away from kernel-level work after retro9
15:13:47 <ubuntu-nathan> very nice
15:13:57 <ubuntu-nathan> congratulations for your work
15:13:59 <ubuntu-nathan> :)
15:14:04 <crc> thanks
15:14:17 <crc> feel free to steal/borrow anything that may be of use
15:14:27 <ubuntu-nathan> lol
15:14:27 <ubuntu-nathan> no
15:14:35 <ubuntu-nathan> I will improve that
15:14:37 <ubuntu-nathan> ;)
15:14:43 <ubuntu-nathan> and send the improved files to you
15:14:50 <crc> thanks 
15:14:58 <ubuntu-nathan> you're welcome
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