00:00:00 --- log: started forth/10.02.06 00:19:00 --- join: GeDaMo (~gedamo@dyn-62-56-89-110.dslaccess.co.uk) joined #forth 00:54:42 --- join: kar8nga (~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 01:05:20 --- join: kbmaniac (~dave@host86-166-128-109.range86-166.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 01:50:19 --- quit: segher (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 02:07:42 --- quit: cataska (Quit: leaving) 02:15:29 --- quit: kar8nga (Remote host closed the connection) 02:17:32 --- quit: docl (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 02:22:18 --- quit: kbmaniac (Remote host closed the connection) 02:22:35 --- join: DrunkTomato (~DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru) joined #forth 03:34:36 --- join: ubuntu-nathan (~Nathan@200.142.160.182) joined #forth 03:35:22 Hi all! 03:35:32 * ubuntu-nathan is back 04:27:20 --- quit: GeDaMo (Quit: Now I lay me down to sleep; Try to count electric sheep) 05:02:51 --- join: segher (~segher@84-105-60-153.cable.quicknet.nl) joined #forth 05:11:50 --- join: mre_ (~Agent@203.109.160.66) joined #forth 05:15:20 --- quit: mre (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 05:15:52 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 05:15:54 --- quit: mre_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05:16:59 --- join: mre (~Agent@203.109.160.66) joined #forth 05:24:39 hmm 05:25:36 yes? 05:25:59 the things are quite now... 05:27:16 --- join: Guthur (~Michael@host81-132-10-255.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 05:28:12 It is better to be quite than to produce useless noise. 05:28:37 ok 05:28:40 sorry 05:31:43 E.g. you'd better stop announcing your arrival. 05:31:54 ok 05:32:01 Those who need to know it, will ask you. 05:32:07 :( 05:32:08 ok 05:32:11 Thanks in advance. 05:32:39 ok 06:04:15 --- join: mre_ (~Agent@203.109.160.66) joined #forth 06:04:45 --- quit: mre (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:21:52 --- join: TR2N (email@89-180-202-218.net.novis.pt) joined #forth 06:53:07 --- join: kar8nga (~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 07:14:29 --- join: GeDaMo (~gedamo@dyn-62-56-89-110.dslaccess.co.uk) joined #forth 07:36:53 --- quit: TR2N (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 07:37:11 --- part: ubuntu-nathan left #forth 07:54:41 --- join: TR2N` (~email@89-180-157-100.net.novis.pt) joined #forth 07:56:00 --- quit: TreyB (Quit: leaving) 07:57:49 --- nick: TR2N` -> TR2N 08:02:40 --- join: mathrick (~mathrick@83.1.168.198) joined #forth 08:50:40 --- join: TR2N` (email@89.180.233.178) joined #forth 08:52:19 --- quit: TR2N (Disconnected by services) 08:52:21 --- nick: TR2N` -> TR2N 09:09:05 --- join: zuse (~zuse@pD95578C8.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 09:38:11 --- join: zachk (~geisthaus@pool-71-240-243-4.syr.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 11:16:41 --- join: alex4nder (~alexander@wsip-72-215-164-129.sb.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 11:16:42 re.. 11:17:19 Evening. 11:19:00 how's it going ASau? 11:23:33 Busy. 11:53:12 --- join: erider (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/erider) joined #forth 12:01:14 --- join: Quartus` (~Quartus`@74.198.8.59) joined #forth 12:08:43 --- quit: kar8nga (Remote host closed the connection) 12:14:18 --- join: rgawron (~rgawron@chello089079032023.chello.pl) joined #forth 12:14:29 hi all 12:15:26 hey rgawron 12:17:05 are you using fort in your jobs, shool projects or just for fun, in free time? 12:18:20 I'm just looking ,yet. But I hope to find the time to use it in free time 12:19:39 and you? 12:20:34 I'm totaly new to this language 12:20:39 You both seem to be first-time users, if users at all. 12:20:48 I don't remember you. 12:20:54 and you? 12:21:10 I was here two or three days ago... but just looking, too 12:21:28 ASau: how do you use it? 12:21:40 Sometimes I write prototypes. 12:22:06 rgawron: I use forth for professional development on embedded systems. 12:22:21 and as of 20 minutes ago, I use it for personal finance as well. 12:23:22 alex4nder: are you writing drivers 12:23:29 If I happen to fix pforth or ficl any time soon, I may find use in commercial software. 12:23:41 erider: that's part of it, yah 12:25:32 ASau: why pforth needs fix? 12:25:57 Because it's broken. 12:26:18 And it is obvious to anyone who tried to use it not like 12:26:18 primitive calculator. 12:26:41 ASau: am I annoying you? 12:28:35 Yes, I don't like ELIZA-like reaction. 12:33:10 rgawron: what got you interested in Forth? 12:33:31 ASau: Well, IMHO you are a bit nervous and a bit rude to me 12:34:27 You're n'th in a raw who asks this stupid question. 12:34:47 alex4nder: I'm building my own tinny programming lanuage, I was talking with friends about functions and theirs arguments and he pointed hat I should learn a bit of this language to gain other perspective 12:35:18 If you don't use pforth and don't plan using it, this breakage doesn't mean anything to you. 12:35:28 If you plan using it, you'll find it fast. 12:36:11 ASau: o god, I hate this bevavior in my co-workers 12:36:27 so frustrating 12:36:36 Be smarter and don't ask stupid questions in the first place. 12:38:03 right. shouldn't ask you 12:39:01 --- join: kar8nga (~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 12:46:38 Asau: Elize-like reaction? 12:48:18 rgowron, he's just a grouch 12:48:55 Asau: What do you mean by "Eliza-like reaction"? 12:49:27 at a guess, he's referring to taking elements of the last sentence and deriving a question from them 12:49:48 Some people call it "conversation" 12:50:36 So he means how right out of the box pforth prints the stack? 12:51:04 "0 trace-stack !" turns that off. 12:51:24 I hacked the source to make it default off; it's a one-byte change in one file. 12:51:31 no --asau was criticizing rgawron for asking questions, unfavorably comparing him to the early simple AI-ish program 'Eliza' 12:51:32 rgawron: Forth is a great place to start writing a new language. 12:51:50 Oh, I see now. 12:51:51 :-) 12:52:01 I write a new language every time I use Forth. ;) 12:52:19 That's one of the great things about Forth. 12:52:44 Everytime you use it you create something unique. Well, at least if you've really thought out a good solution to an interesting application. 12:52:58 yup 12:53:00 indeed 12:53:09 new ways to think about things. 12:53:23 you mean that by default every good written aplication or lib is some kinf of domain specific language, right? 12:53:40 that's the idea. 12:54:48 rgawron: yup 12:55:06 rgawron: I just wrote up a program to budget my yearly expenditures 12:55:18 the words I created read well 12:55:36 exp" Progressive Car Insurance" 1100 every 6 months 12:55:51 which creates an expense of $1100 every 6 months 12:56:23 nice. 12:56:41 yes, nice 12:57:59 but how do you think, why this language isn't more popular? 12:58:19 because it's too hard for most people to get. 12:58:37 and it's too easy to generate garbage code. 12:59:34 Forth has been called a 'programmer amplifier', so it makes good ones better, and bad ones worse 13:00:35 If you are really interested in becoming a better programmer, learn to write good Forth; that skill will make you a better programmer across the board. 13:00:57 and do you find some core ideas from forth implemented, used in other languages? 13:01:13 Quartus: people say this also about Haskell 13:02:10 There are shades of forth in various languages. But forth is a coming-together of a number of things that make it an ideal environment for honing programming skill. 13:02:22 rgawron: For me, Forth is like walking up to a blank piece of paper, with a pencil. 13:02:42 you can write a book, do some Math, sketch a portrait,.. it's up to you. 13:03:59 language as a material not as a set of rules, sth like lisp? 13:04:58 yah, but even less rules than lisp. 13:05:08 I suppose. I'm less interested in the esoteric similies than I am in the language itself. 13:07:12 but people can get excited after discovering forth for quite similar reasons that they do after discovering lisp, or even haskell 13:08:24 rgawron: do you have specific idea for an app you want to write? 13:08:50 forth has the additional advantage of being simple, and small. You can cobble together an 80%-complete implementation in a weekend. Not that you should, but you could. 13:10:00 I was building a tinny functional language (based on lex+yacc, compiled to my asembler, that could be executed by my virtual machine) it's working (it's a mess in some places, I dodn't have theorethical backgrund to plan that) 13:10:22 so I decided to leave all except virtual machine + assembler and create everything from scratch 13:10:30 it's just a toy but i like it 13:11:06 so I started to thinking what language I would like to build 13:11:21 Sounds like you're slowly converging on forth 13:11:22 and ask people, talking ad one of them point me to forth 13:11:57 I suggest you learn forth, and then decide if you want to build on top of it 13:12:04 to be honest my idea was quite similar to forth, now I know 13:14:56 I have to go now, thanks for sharing your knowlage 13:15:10 sure. 13:15:24 --- quit: rgawron (Quit: leaving) 13:21:00 see you guys. 13:21:01 --- quit: alex4nder (Quit: bbl) 14:02:30 --- quit: Guthur (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 14:25:41 --- quit: qFox (Quit: Time for cookies!) 14:38:48 --- quit: mre_ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 14:41:35 --- join: mre (~Agent@203.109.160.66) joined #forth 14:50:27 --- quit: madgarden (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 14:54:47 --- quit: erider (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 15:03:56 --- quit: DrunkTomato () 15:13:11 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@CPE001d7e527f89-CM00159a65a870.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 15:13:54 --- quit: GeDaMo (Quit: Now I lay me down to sleep; Try to count electric sheep) 15:20:52 --- quit: kar8nga (Remote host closed the connection) 15:36:55 --- join: kbmaniac (~dave@host86-166-128-109.range86-166.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 15:43:50 --- quit: mre (Read error: No route to host) 15:46:21 --- join: mre (~Agent@203.109.160.66) joined #forth 16:29:57 --- quit: kbmaniac (Remote host closed the connection) 16:30:01 sleep well 16:30:08 --- quit: zuse (Quit: habt euch lieb) 17:52:26 --- join: Vanax (~GMT@adsl-35.91.140.16.tellas.gr) joined #forth 18:09:20 --- quit: Vanax (Remote host closed the connection) 18:13:27 --- quit: madgarden (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18:14:26 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@CPE001d7e527f89-CM00159a65a870.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 18:55:04 --- join: erider (~chatzilla@pool-173-69-160-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 18:55:08 --- quit: erider (Changing host) 18:55:09 --- join: erider (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/erider) joined #forth 19:30:04 --- join: mre_ (~Agent@203.109.160.66) joined #forth 19:32:42 --- quit: mre (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 19:39:55 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 19:53:40 --- quit: mre_ (Quit: I'll be back) 20:07:07 --- join: mre (~Agent@203.109.160.66) joined #forth 20:44:30 --- quit: erider (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 21:43:17 --- quit: ASau (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 22:21:00 --- quit: mre (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 22:25:07 --- join: mre (~Agent@203.109.160.66) joined #forth 22:35:46 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #forth 22:46:55 --- join: ASau (~user@83.69.227.32) joined #forth 22:49:23 --- join: alex4nder (~alexander@dsl093-145-168.sba1.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #forth 22:49:25 hey 23:10:31 --- join: mre_ (~Agent@203.109.160.66) joined #forth 23:10:54 --- quit: mre (Read error: No route to host) 23:28:33 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/10.02.06