00:00:00 --- log: started forth/10.02.01 00:33:24 --- quit: gogonkt (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 00:35:27 --- join: gogonkt (~info@218.13.63.13) joined #forth 00:38:39 --- quit: saper (Quit: again) 00:38:39 --- quit: saper_ (Quit: again) 00:38:50 --- join: saper (saper@wikipedia/saper) joined #forth 01:04:52 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 01:29:55 --- quit: nighty__ (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 02:01:05 --- join: dandersen (~96d65e65@metabug/dandersen) joined #forth 02:06:12 --- quit: dandersen (Quit: Page closed) 02:19:39 --- join: zuse (~zuse@pD955470D.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 02:26:07 --- quit: PoppaVic (Quit: Reality, what a concept!) 02:27:07 --- join: solrize (~phr@unaffiliated/solrize) joined #forth 02:27:18 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 02:28:44 my basic question about forth (i mean in real-world use, not just what's possible) is when developing embeddded code, whether it's customary to run the interactive interpreter / colon compiler directly on the target hardware, or to cross-compile on a PC 02:29:08 and also whether typed forths like StrongForth got much traction in the forth community 02:29:44 Do what fits your needs. 02:30:06 I don't observe much traction for StrongForth. 02:31:06 thanks 02:34:37 is greenarrays generating much interest? are they likely to ship actual parts anytime soon? i wish them success but i feel doubtful 02:34:47 solrize: there's a paper out there on a "three instruction" Forth, where you start with an extremely basic three-operation interpreter on your target hardware and then drive that with a Forth system running on your host. It's a very fast way to bring a new embedded system up. 02:35:05 I have to go right now, but I'll see if I can post a link to that later, unless someone else beats me to it. 02:35:07 Good luck. 02:35:13 thanks, i'm goobling for it 02:35:24 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/87nmw/programmers_diary_thoughts_on_implementing_forth/ 02:35:59 "Oh great, just what we need, yet another amateur implementation of a FORTH by someone who isn't even a FORTH programmer. It's like a rite of passage." -- hahahaha they read my thoughts (i.e. i was thinking of implementing it) 02:36:54 My thoughts exactly. 02:37:04 "3 Instruction Forth - interesting, but ultimately useless" 02:37:12 http://pygmy.utoh.org/3ins4th.html 02:37:24 I share this opinion as well. 02:37:38 3 Ins. Forth is close to useless. 02:37:56 Better cross-build. 02:39:56 3ins forth isn't a forth - it's just a boostrap prog. Shouldn't have tried to confuse the issue. 02:41:06 There's common sickness in Forth community. 02:41:32 Too many people use their own names for common things. 02:41:42 Some things are simply misleading. 02:42:23 does anyone except chuck moore use colorforth? 02:42:45 PoppaVic boasts this. 02:42:56 RaySTM2 does. 02:43:07 There're some other h4xx0rz. 02:43:09 cool 02:43:17 I don't know if they do anything useful with it. 02:50:59 The smallest practical Forth is a 16-bit model; i.e., one which uses 16-bit integers and 16-bit addresses. 02:51:02 hmm 02:51:09 (from http://www.bradrodriguez.com/papers/moving1.htm) 02:52:01 oh i see, it still works fine on 8-bit cpu's, it just takes moving pairs of bytes around 02:55:32 does anyone use forth inner interpreters as compiler targets for more conventional languages 02:55:33 ? 02:56:25 They say (that is noone checked TMK) that ECMAScript Tamarin targets Forth. 02:56:50 interesting 03:05:01 does anyone use just 1 stack? 03:10:23 well, thanks, this stuff is pretty neat. i stopped by because of a blog post about greenarrays and thinking i could use their colorforth chip in some projects that would typically use a small PIC programmed in asm or C 03:10:46 nite 03:11:13 --- part: solrize left #forth 04:00:31 --- join: Guthur (~Michael@host81-132-171-8.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 04:09:46 --- join: crcz (~crc@bespin.org) joined #forth 04:58:18 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05:01:50 --- join: sunwukong (~vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu) joined #forth 05:06:31 --- quit: maht (Remote host closed the connection) 05:10:53 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 05:18:18 --- join: pgas (~user@pdpc/supporter/active/pgas) joined #forth 05:27:23 --- quit: memeplex (Quit: Lost terminal) 05:30:24 Yeah, actually I do agree that the three-instruction Forth isn't "quite Forth." But it does have the virtue of giving you a really quick and simple way to get a system up and running from scratch, using a Forth environment. 05:30:42 Since you only need those three primitives you can hand assemble them, so you don't need an assembler or compiler. 05:30:58 Then when it's up and running you write an assembler for your target using the host's Forth system. 05:31:06 KipIngram: do you remember simplistic monitors? 05:31:12 Assemblers are usually easier to write in Forth. 05:31:14 Like those for ZX. 05:31:16 Yes, I do. 05:31:26 They have no relation to Forth. 05:31:38 I didn't "overlap" with them for long, but they were around when I was starting out. 05:31:40 That you can use them from Forth is quite another thing. 05:32:04 I think I just agreed with that point a few lines back up. 05:32:10 You can program GSM phones using TCL via Expect. 05:32:23 That doesn't mean that GSM phone interface is TCL. 05:32:43 I really don't have time to get into a philosphy debate this morning Asau; I'm at work. 05:32:51 I'm at work too. 05:32:52 I agree that's not really "Forth on the target." 05:33:05 We agree on this. :) 05:33:14 Unless you then used it to write a target Forth. The three-instruction thing is just a way of getting there. 05:33:19 Anyway, peace. :-) 05:33:21 Have a good day. 05:49:34 --- quit: Guthur (Quit: Computer says no) 07:54:59 --- quit: sunwukong (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 07:59:41 --- quit: ASau` (Quit: off.) 08:05:02 --- join: DrunkTomato (~DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru) joined #forth 08:19:05 --- join: GeDaMo (~gedamo@dyn-62-56-89-110.dslaccess.co.uk) joined #forth 08:33:30 --- join: kar8nga (~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 09:01:34 --- join: ASau (~user@83.69.227.32) joined #forth 09:24:19 --- nick: crcz -> crcx 09:29:15 --- join: PoppaVic (~pops@adsl-99-150-129-37.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 09:29:42 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 09:32:43 --- quit: kar8nga (Remote host closed the connection) 09:33:15 --- join: qFox (~C00K13S@5356B263.cable.casema.nl) joined #forth 09:36:15 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 09:36:22 --- join: Frek (~nnnnnnnnn@81-225-142-146-no36.tbcn.telia.com) joined #forth 09:37:50 --- join: qFxo (~C00K13S@5356B263.cable.casema.nl) joined #forth 09:39:25 --- quit: qFox (Quit: Time for cookies!) 09:40:22 --- quit: qFxo (Client Quit) 09:40:38 --- join: qFox (~C00K13S@5356B263.cable.casema.nl) joined #forth 09:49:37 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 09:55:45 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 09:58:51 --- join: kar8nga (~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 10:06:00 --- join: Quartus` (~Quartus`@74.198.8.57) joined #forth 10:09:39 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 10:11:01 --- quit: Quartus` (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 10:16:57 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 10:23:09 --- part: republican_devil left #forth 10:27:56 --- quit: nighty (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Nighty_!~nighty@ip-62-235-195-145.dsl.scarlet.be))) 10:30:27 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 10:31:34 crcx: I'm really liking Reva 10:31:36 --- join: nighty_ (~nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 10:31:50 jabb: glad to hear that 10:37:45 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 10:47:37 --- quit: DrunkTomato () 10:52:35 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 10:59:45 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 11:16:07 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 11:20:16 --- join: ubuntu-nathan (~Nathan@201.79.206.31) joined #forth 11:23:37 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 11:38:15 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 11:44:45 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 11:49:14 --- quit: TreyB (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 11:50:54 --- join: TreyB (~trey@adsl-76-247-247-96.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 12:01:31 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 12:08:18 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 12:14:31 --- quit: ubuntu-nathan (Quit: Leaving) 12:24:27 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 12:28:29 --- join: Maki (~Maki@dynamic-78-30-167-37.adsl.eunet.rs) joined #forth 12:31:25 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 12:47:01 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 12:49:55 --- join: ubuntu-nathan (~Nathan@201.79.206.31) joined #forth 12:54:08 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 13:07:12 Someone know COBOL? 13:08:16 I'm not sure this is the best channel to ask that :P 13:08:45 someone is sure to know cobol, but maybe not here ;-) 13:08:57 I used COBOL a very long time ago 13:09:15 I try to forget ever seeing it OR F77 13:09:21 hmm 13:09:27 * ubuntu-nathan is learning COBOL 13:09:30 oh! 13:09:34 GeDaMo? 13:09:36 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 13:09:45 Yes? 13:10:08 :D 13:10:21 you know Assemblt and Forth 13:10:21 :D 13:10:23 nice 13:11:02 :P 13:11:20 --- quit: Maki (Quit: Leaving) 13:16:30 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 13:18:09 --- quit: qFox (Quit: Time for cookies!) 13:32:09 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 13:38:29 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 13:41:45 --- quit: zuse (Quit: habt euch lieb) 13:46:22 --- quit: ubuntu-nathan (Quit: Leaving) 13:54:00 --- join: Guthur (~Michael@host81-132-171-8.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 13:54:41 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 14:01:58 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 14:15:11 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 14:19:58 --- quit: kar8nga (Remote host closed the connection) 14:22:48 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 14:29:35 --- join: carlos (~carlos@201.250.175.111) joined #forth 14:29:52 --- nick: carlos -> Guest65372 14:30:00 /nick/wc 14:30:02 --- part: Guest65372 left #forth 14:30:27 --- join: memeplex (~carlos@201.250.175.111) joined #forth 14:33:24 --- quit: Snoopy_1611 () 14:33:32 hi, how do you achieve something similar to partial evaluation / curry ? suppose i need to pass an xt ( x -- f ) to some word -say- any? ( array xt -- f ), and that the xt is "x +" with x not fixed 14:34:15 sorry "x >" 14:34:27 Either pass parameters or define new word. 14:34:33 so that the example makes sense 14:35:13 --- join: Snoopy_1611 (Snoopy_161@dslb-088-068-206-219.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 14:35:14 "Real Programmers can write Fortran in any language." 14:35:38 but afaics i can't define a new word in a trivial way because its neither "2 >" nor "3 >" but "x >" 14:36:04 Your Scheme background shows too much. 14:36:15 Either learn Forth or stay with Scheme. 14:36:50 ASau: in fact i'm open to suggestions, that's why i'm asking, i won't deny my scheme, even factor, background 14:36:53 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 14:37:53 If you do want to construct iterators, use Lisp approach. 14:40:46 i don't necessarily want to, mine was just a statement of a problem, if even the formulation was done in the wrong terms from a forth perspective, i really wouldn't mind if you reformulate it 14:41:29 do you think that the "high-order" any? is plainly wrong? 14:41:34 Do you know difference between Scheme and Lisp? 14:42:20 i could enumerate a few, but what's the point? 14:42:34 Because Scheme is stripped down to bones, you have no other 14:42:34 way than to express any complex language construct 14:42:51 except by using anonymous functions. 14:42:56 E.g. loops. 14:43:53 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 14:43:56 While Lispnik has very expressive LOOP macro, Schemer has 14:43:56 to do the same with anonymous functions. 14:44:06 Hence curring and all other "fancy" things. 14:44:29 Same in Forth. 14:44:29 you have loops in scheme, you can pass additional parameters instead of a closure also 14:44:36 Just don't use currying. 14:44:52 memeplex: they are not part of standard. 14:45:32 If you're talking about "do", this is laughable. 14:45:33 simple loops are, i think the loop macro is addressed by some srfi but i really don't care about it 14:45:39 You don't understand the difference then. 14:46:27 Noone cares of simple loops. 14:47:04 Half of Forth expressivity (as I use the language) comes 14:47:04 from two or three-conditional loops. 14:54:43 --- quit: memeplex (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 14:55:56 --- join: memeplex (~carlos@201.250.148.122) joined #forth 14:58:19 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 15:00:33 --- part: memeplex left #forth 15:06:38 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 15:19:55 --- quit: GeDaMo (Quit: Now I lay me down to sleep; Try to count electric sheep) 15:21:16 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 15:29:33 --- quit: tarbo (*.net *.split) 15:44:27 --- join: sixforty (~sixforty@pdpc/supporter/active/sixforty) joined #forth 16:09:27 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 16:12:46 --- join: zzo38 (~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com) joined #forth 16:12:54 Finally, it works! 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