00:00:00 --- log: started forth/10.01.31 00:01:36 --- join: v86 (~v86@unaffiliated/v86) joined #forth 00:05:04 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 00:19:39 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 00:26:38 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 00:27:07 --- join: kar8nga (~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 00:33:06 --- join: qFox (~C00K13S@5356B263.cable.casema.nl) joined #forth 00:36:46 --- quit: alex4nder (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 00:39:06 hi 00:39:15 anyone have a pdf for starting forth 00:41:24 v86: There used to be a site for FIG - taygeta took it over, I think.. Plenty of resources there - and the ANS std (DPANS) 00:41:32 --- join: Guest15170 (~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 00:42:18 Dozens of forths. several from here, Gforth.. ANd I don't believe "Starting Forth" has a pdf, but "Thinking Forth" has been released like that, by the same author. 00:48:26 "Thinking Forth" being an intro book ? 00:49:15 It's one I recommend in ##C and all over - really a nice read. Gets yer headspace better 00:49:21 --- quit: Guest15170 (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 00:49:45 v86: http://www.taygeta.com/resources.html - friends are fun ;-) 00:51:55 Neat. 00:52:09 it can keep yah busy.. 00:52:31 topic lists other goodies. 01:02:04 --- join: tarbo_ (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 01:09:44 --- quit: tarbo_ (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 01:12:14 --- join: GeDaMo (~gedamo@dyn-62-56-89-110.dslaccess.co.uk) joined #forth 01:22:35 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 01:28:27 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 01:42:31 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 01:48:40 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 01:55:19 --- join: TR2N (email@89-180-217-250.net.novis.pt) joined #forth 02:02:35 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 02:09:04 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 02:22:34 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 02:23:19 --- quit: PoppaVic (Quit: Reality, what a concept!) 02:29:13 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 02:42:37 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 02:51:42 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 03:02:35 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 05:02:21 --- log: started forth/10.01.31 05:02:21 --- join: clog (~nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 05:02:21 --- topic: 'The Forth programming language, etc. | Logged by clog | forth.pastebin.ca | quartus.net/search | gforth: tinyurl.com/s8uho | isforth.com | ANS Standard: tinyurl.com/nx7dx | Wiki: forthfreak.net' 05:02:21 --- topic: set by tathi on [Mon Nov 30 04:40:25 2009] 05:02:21 --- names: list (clog DrunkTomato ubuntu-nathan TR2N qFox kar8nga v86 KipIngram ASau maht jabb gnomon saper nighty madgarden malyn nighty^ ASau` schme rotty uiu Frek madwork foxes Snoopy_1611 scj addled gogonkt Zarutian TreyB republican_devil mathrick segher yiyus @crc) 05:04:04 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 05:12:54 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 272 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nighty__ (~nighty@210.188.173.245) joined #forth 16:18:19 --- quit: rotty (Quit: leaving) 16:22:33 --- join: tarbo (~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 16:22:33 --- quit: tarbo (Changing host) 16:22:33 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 16:22:35 --- join: memeplex (~carlos@201.250.180.53) joined #forth 16:23:30 hi, anyone here uses reva forth? 16:24:41 I do on occasion 16:25:05 do you know if there is a customary idiom to express loops for which the guard is evaluated before executing the body ? 16:25:23 like begin while repeat in ans 16:27:16 none that I know of 16:28:25 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 16:28:41 they have the repeat...while loop but i can't see how to get the desired effect without evaluating the test first before executing the body and then before looping, can you? 16:29:47 do you have an example of what you're trying to achieve? 16:30:52 i'm asking in general, for the looping pattern while { } , instead of do { } while 16:38:26 try this: 16:38:29 macro 16:38:30 : begin ['] repeat execute ; 16:38:30 : repeat ['] again execute ['] then execute ; 16:38:30 : while ['] if execute swap ; 16:38:30 forth 16:38:31 : foo 0 begin dup 10 <> while dup . 1+ repeat drop ; 16:39:04 it appears to match the runtime behavior of 'foo' under gforth, so hopefully will work as expected 16:42:34 --- join: tarbo (~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 16:42:34 --- quit: tarbo (Changing host) 16:42:34 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 16:44:30 thank you very much crc, in fact i've tried a slightly different variant of those words and reva comes with an ans (incomplete) emulation library also; i was asking basically because it surprises me that the core looping words don't support such (imo common) looping pattern, i thought that maybe i was missing something there 16:45:10 any forth systems that compile to machine code? 16:47:54 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 16:49:18 jabb: ones that compile to standalone executables? 16:49:30 or ones that support native code, via a turnkey approach? 16:50:29 --- quit: foxes (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 16:54:06 for the former, see http://forthfreak.net/index.cgi?NativeCodeCompiler for one (incomplete) system for Linux and http://www.almy.us/forthcmp.html for one targeting DOS. 16:54:36 for the latter, the commerical forths can certainly do it, and reva generates x86 machine code, which can be saved as part of a turnkey application 16:59:07 --- join: foxes (flash@221.220.162.72) joined #forth 17:02:39 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 17:03:28 crc: yeah, standalone executables 17:03:49 not a lot of options there, sadly 17:05:58 I'm assuming the best one for accessing C libraries is gForth? 17:06:43 gforth does a pretty good job, at least on linux 17:06:57 any others? 17:06:59 reva can interface with C as well 17:07:16 and of course, the commercial ones should all have FFI's 17:07:37 *commercial* :P 17:08:01 the commercial systems tend to be very complete, and have better documentation than the free ones 17:09:26 there are a few non-commercial systems that do subroutine-threaded code; some people call that "native code" 17:09:37 it sucks though 17:09:43 segher: but they can't save to standalone binaries though 17:09:51 segher: which is what he wants 17:09:52 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 17:10:04 dunno, i never use that non-feature, heh 17:11:01 I like distributing something that doesn't require the user to download something to run it :P 17:11:03 compilation is fast, source code isn't bigger than binary code (after compression) 17:11:06 Sometimes that unavoidable 17:11:14 so include it, duh 17:11:34 jabb: turnkey will still provide that 17:11:40 4th 17:11:44 jabb: reva can compile to a single binary 17:11:48 jabb: as can isforth 17:12:01 cool 17:12:16 isforth won't interface with C libaries though 17:12:42 actually, it's 4tH I was thinking of 17:15:41 PoppaVic: 4tH compiles to a bytecode, not a single executable file 17:16:12 crc: I know, but then you wang it into C, rock the compiler and it's executable.. 17:16:43 "standalone", however... which view of "standalone"? hosted? 17:16:47 PoppaVic: if I was going to mess with that, I'd just use my own forth 17:16:56 crc: yah, I know. 17:17:35 I assume hosted 17:18:06 I don't x86, so I don't worry about it ;-) 17:22:34 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 17:28:12 --- quit: memeplex (Quit: Lost terminal) 17:28:34 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 17:32:26 --- join: memeplex (~carlos@201.250.180.53) joined #forth 17:34:30 is there any online archive for this channel logs? 17:34:41 yes 17:34:47 http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/forth 17:34:59 thank you 17:35:17 http://bespin.org/~nef/logs/forth/?C=M;O=D 17:35:24 if you want the most recent on top 17:41:51 --- quit: Quartus` (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 17:43:08 --- join: tarbo (~me@pool-173-75-5-88.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 17:43:08 --- quit: tarbo (Changing host) 17:43:08 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 17:48:49 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 17:51:42 crc, maybe this is a very basic question but the macro definitions of begin,while,repeat you gave me before follow this pattern : f ['] g execute ; , what is the difference with the simpler : f g ; ? 17:52:39 some words are macros, "['] name execute" ensures that they are run only when the new macro is called 17:52:58 : begin repeat ; 17:53:18 repeat would be executed when mentioned, since it's an immediate word 17:53:21 but: 17:53:27 : begin ['] repeat execute ; 17:53:45 would execute repeat when 'begin' is executed, not when 'begin' is compiled 17:53:56 so, you are saying : begin postpone repeat ; 17:53:57 is it like postpone repeat? 17:54:02 yes 17:54:08 reva doesn't have postpone IIRC 17:54:10 i see 17:54:21 does it have [compile] ? 17:54:42 it has compile 17:54:56 no [compile] 17:54:58 and p: 17:55:16 p: is the rough equivilent of postpone :) 17:55:27 * crc had forgotten that, sorry 17:55:44 : [compile] ' literal compile execute ; immediate 17:55:51 not quite, but heh 17:56:33 sounds like reva is very non-standard though, so that won't fly at all either i bet 17:57:48 macro 17:57:51 : [compile] ' literal, ['] execute compile ; 17:57:51 forth 17:58:00 would work for [compile] 17:59:57 don't you need to make it immediate? 18:00:06 oh, that's what "macro" says 18:02:57 yes 18:03:11 --- join: tarbo (~me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 18:06:14 --- quit: saper (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 18:06:25 --- join: probonono (~User@ppp103-111.static.internode.on.net) joined #forth 18:06:25 --- quit: probonono (Changing host) 18:06:25 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #forth 18:10:39 --- quit: jabb (Quit: Lost terminal) 18:10:42 --- quit: tarbo (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 18:13:49 --- join: saper (saper@wikipedia/saper) 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