00:00:00 --- log: started forth/10.01.23 00:20:58 --- join: qFox (n=C00K13S@5356B263.cable.casema.nl) joined #forth 00:39:06 --- join: Raystm2 (i=rastm2@c-24-8-232-212.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 00:42:17 --- join: DocPlatypus (n=skquinn@dsl253-084-021.hou1.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #forth 00:42:38 wow. this place sure has grown from last time I was here 00:42:50 either that or I've forgotten how many were usually in at a time 00:46:49 re.. 00:47:14 I think it's been over a year 00:47:20 I have barely touched my Forth code 00:47:41 shame shame. must touch forth code. :) 00:48:25 what do you code in Forth? 00:48:26 I still remember what everything does but I've been too busy blogging 00:49:15 I mainly just dabbled. I wrote a set of words for doing math with numbers larger than two cells 00:49:27 triple, quad, hex, octo 00:49:29 BigNums system. sweet. 00:49:36 Very nice. 00:49:43 yeah. need to box it up and release it 00:49:47 :) 00:50:14 Handy. 00:52:03 * Raystm2 opened this chat to fix flightgear coms and forgot that all these forth chats open automagically on purpose. 00:52:07 it's not a full MPI system, the words are things like q+, ud*, qs+ 00:52:35 add two quads, multiply two unsigned doubles, add a single to a quad 00:52:38 qs+ == q+ signed? 00:52:53 no, quad single + 00:52:53 OH! okay. ty 00:53:16 : qs+ ( q s -- q+s ) 00:53:30 I have two versions 00:53:38 one depends on q+ and is simply: 00:53:57 : qs+ ( q s -- q+s ) 0 0 0 q+ ; 00:54:15 I see. sure. 00:54:25 the other is a bit longer but faster when not a lot of carrying goes on 00:55:05 not too much carrying on :) nice. :) in assembler, then? 00:55:28 no it's all in native Forth, potentially dreadfully slow but usable 00:56:02 the fun part was the uq. and uo. (printing) functions 00:56:13 and I think I may have made signed versions of at least quads 00:56:43 Still, it's a great exercise. 01:00:35 What languages do you usually use? Are you a programmer, as it were? 01:16:42 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 01:18:41 darn he left 01:19:00 I've learned Perl, Python, C, BASIC (of course), Pascal, and some PHP 01:19:06 among others 01:30:09 --- quit: alex4nder (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:04:30 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x708D5A0C) joined #forth 02:24:10 --- join: GeDaMo (n=gedamo@dyn-62-56-89-110.dslaccess.co.uk) joined #forth 02:31:35 --- quit: DocPlatypus ("Leaving") 02:45:20 --- join: reolik (n=homer@ip-62-235-212-66.dsl.scarlet.be) joined #forth 02:59:30 --- quit: reolik ("Quitte") 04:15:59 --- join: kar8nga (n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 04:17:30 --- quit: ASau (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:27:53 --- quit: GeDaMo (Client Quit) 04:35:36 --- join: ASau (n=user@83.69.227.32) joined #forth 05:07:26 --- quit: kar8nga (Remote closed the connection) 05:58:52 --- join: Zarutian (n=zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 06:58:34 --- join: Guthur (n=Michael@host81-159-209-174.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 07:40:30 --- join: kar8nga (n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 08:16:13 --- quit: proteusguy__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:16:36 --- join: proteusguy__ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 08:20:53 --- join: GeDaMo (n=gedamo@dyn-62-56-89-110.dslaccess.co.uk) joined #forth 08:49:24 --- join: foucist (n=foucist@69.93.127.31) joined #forth 08:49:24 --- mode: ChanServ set +o foucist 08:53:56 --- quit: proteusguy__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:54:22 --- join: proteusguy__ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 08:54:43 --- part: foucist left #forth 09:04:53 --- quit: kar8nga (Remote closed the connection) 09:11:39 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pops@99.150.138.254) joined #forth 09:24:00 --- quit: proteusguy__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:24:31 --- join: proteusguy__ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 09:47:47 --- join: kar8nga (n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 09:50:26 --- quit: pgas ("/quit") 09:54:51 --- join: proteusguy_ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 09:54:54 --- quit: proteusguy__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:11:26 --- join: kbmaniac (n=dave@host86-162-242-31.range86-162.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 10:11:55 --- quit: proteusguy_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 10:24:43 --- join: proteusguy_ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 10:26:24 --- join: Maki (n=Maki@dynamic-78-30-167-37.adsl.eunet.rs) joined #forth 10:36:16 --- quit: kbmaniac (Remote closed the connection) 10:39:19 --- quit: proteusguy_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 10:44:05 --- join: Raystm2 (i=rastm2@c-24-8-232-212.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 10:44:47 --- quit: Raystm2 (Client Quit) 10:44:49 --- join: Raystm2 (i=rastm2@c-24-8-232-212.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 10:54:37 --- join: proteusguy_ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 10:58:54 --- join: alex4nder (n=alexande@dsl093-145-168.sba1.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #forth 11:21:57 --- join: segher (n=segher@84-105-60-153.cable.quicknet.nl) joined #forth 11:24:01 --- quit: proteusguy_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:24:24 --- join: proteusguy_ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 11:53:14 --- quit: proteusguy_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:54:06 --- join: proteusguy_ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 12:09:27 --- quit: proteusguy_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 12:10:37 --- quit: alex4nder (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:20:53 --- quit: kar8nga (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 12:24:30 --- join: proteusguy_ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 12:34:19 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 12:39:08 --- join: kar8nga (n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 12:39:18 --- quit: proteusguy_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 12:54:40 --- join: proteusguy_ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 13:23:38 --- quit: proteusguy_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:24:15 --- join: proteusguy_ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 13:25:05 --- join: alex4nder (n=alexande@wsip-72-215-164-129.sb.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 13:25:13 hey 13:25:49 Hi. 13:26:13 how's it Maki? 13:26:24 ok. 13:26:57 Have you seen new at91sam3 devices? 13:27:38 Small flash page, good for direct to flash compilation of Forth words. 13:28:20 And other goodies :) 13:30:16 I took a little bit of a look, they seem like an improvement over the sam7s 13:31:09 Do you know if Stephen is going to support CortexM3? 13:34:06 http://arius.com/stuff/message.pdf <- I found this a couple months ago, but I didn't ask him about it. 13:34:10 apparently someone asked him to support it. 13:35:32 I know Rick from usenet... 13:35:58 what kind of things would Stephen had to do to the compiler for CortexM3? 13:37:30 Assembler and arch specific things. Not much. Price is quite hot! 13:40:19 what is the main selling feature of the CortexM3 13:41:54 oh thumb-2 only, 13:42:12 as in the only instruction set 13:44:05 thumb2 is 16-bit. Memory footprint is lower. 13:45:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thumb-2#Thumb-2 13:47:14 thumbEE sounds useful 13:47:37 especially for interactive programming languages like forth, lisps etc 13:48:48 Common Lisp would probably be a little heavy for embedded platforms though, but scheme might be a possibility 13:51:34 Guthur: not at all. 13:52:08 Maki: BTW, I've just got one gavino-style question for clf :D 13:52:20 Can Forth do anything like this: http://code.google.com/p/cl-mpi/ 13:52:28 If it can, where's the software? 13:52:33 :) 13:53:47 Guthur: Scheme isn't lightweight. 13:53:52 --- quit: proteusguy_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:53:56 ASua: I thought most CL implementations where a couple of MB 13:54:04 And given some of its properties, I'd bet on CL rather than on Scheme. 13:54:11 ASau I meant relative to CL 13:54:42 --- join: proteusguy_ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 13:54:48 well I admit I was more going by the size of the spec, CL is like 900+ pages, scheme is like 90 or something 13:54:54 Do you know any Scheme below that "couple of MB"? 13:55:07 Scheme isn't "90". 13:55:25 And you repeat the same misconception like Schemers do. 13:55:35 CL standard is comprehensive. 13:55:49 It is formatted one _full_ page per function. 13:56:11 Scheme standard is formatted two-column and gives only a 13:56:11 short synopsys for functions. 13:56:26 CL provides examples and cross-references. 13:56:59 I admit I was basing it all on heresy, to be fair 13:57:05 heresay 13:57:08 Standard Scheme is stripped down to the point of uselessness. 13:57:57 If you want to compare Scheme to CL, you should compare 13:57:57 Report _plus_ many SRFIs to single CLHS. 13:58:41 Alternatively, you can strip CL down to the comparable set of features. 13:59:04 But... 13:59:46 I'd just like some alternative to C, and it doesn't offer much anyway, so easy to beat 14:00:03 * PoppaVic chuckles 14:00:04 Alternative in which sense? 14:00:37 I relation to ARM development 14:00:44 oh sorry I should have specified that 14:00:57 I know a person who did something on ARM with Scheme. 14:01:15 Guthur: something wrong with A c-implementation, I take it. 14:01:43 PoppaVic you mean one that compiles to C? 14:01:53 and then compile that to ARM 14:02:06 ECL does that 14:02:10 No, I said "you must be finding something wrong with *A* c-imp." 14:02:18 well, then use it. 14:02:27 its a little heavy 14:02:30 PoppaVic: the problem is at the language level not at the 14:02:30 implementation one. 14:02:40 all C implementations are the same, dreadful 14:02:48 * PoppaVic shrugs 14:02:48 Guthur: pcc? 14:02:54 Guthur: lcc? tcc? 14:02:58 I grown to really dislike the syntax 14:03:31 can't really blame any implementations for the syntax 14:03:50 I wasn't but they all suffer from that same problem 14:04:04 I never pick on any particular implementation of C 14:04:09 pick/picked 14:04:16 Try Ada. 14:04:22 :) 14:05:45 Guthur: I'm doing ARM development with MPE forth. it's a good system. 14:06:11 alex4nder: I have it set aside to investigate at some point 14:06:14 it's not as fast as similar C using GCC, but it's fast enough for my needs at this point. 14:06:33 and I like developing in it more than using the C toolchains available. 14:06:59 I'll not start on the toolchains, hehe 14:07:39 Its probably my inexperience with GNU toolchains but so far I am having to run a windows compiler using Wine to compile my code 14:08:06 hmm. 14:08:31 my experience hasn't been that bad, but I just hate the edit/compile/link/reflash cycle. 14:09:35 --- quit: proteusguy_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 14:09:37 just finish downloading the binaries for GNUARM, I had tried codesourcery but had severe issues with it 14:10:48 have you tried running YAGARTO, in order to test things out? 14:11:30 I might try that after this, The only working approach I have at the moment is Keil through Wine 14:17:11 Ada looks like strange hybrid of C and python 14:17:59 Ada is neither. 14:18:25 I know its a lot older 14:18:30 than Python anyway 14:18:42 and pre dates C if I am not mistaken 14:18:47 No. 14:18:54 Ada is 1984, C is 1972. 14:19:07 But that's not the point. 14:19:21 Ada is independent development. 14:19:25 oh so it is 14:19:29 I thought it was older 14:19:46 It was developed for use in complex embedded systems. 14:20:07 Like in their missile and counter-missile ones. 14:20:43 yup, it was 'big' in the military. 14:21:03 the notion was that the language would support provably-correct programming 14:21:08 It stays big in aircraft industry it seems. 14:22:01 It has support for correctness proofs. 14:23:15 You can define allowed range for variables for instance. 14:24:07 --- join: proteusguy_ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 14:26:33 werd. 14:30:49 --- quit: GeDaMo (Client Quit) 14:53:54 --- quit: proteusguy_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:54:44 --- join: proteusguy_ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 15:23:45 --- quit: proteusguy_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:24:01 --- join: proteusguy_ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 15:51:44 --- quit: alex4nder ("bbl") 15:53:50 --- quit: proteusguy_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:54:43 --- join: proteusguy_ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 16:06:54 --- quit: Maki ("Leaving") 16:24:00 --- quit: proteusguy_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:24:47 --- join: proteusguy_ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 16:26:16 --- quit: kar8nga (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:26:59 --- quit: mathrick ("HULK ANGRY! 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