00:00:00 --- log: started forth/10.01.05 00:10:59 --- join: pgas (n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/pgas) joined #forth 00:22:31 werd.. my flash routine works. 02:52:32 --- join: proteusguy (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 02:55:53 --- quit: segher ("This computer has gone to sleep") 03:03:04 * alex4nder fixes a timing issue. 03:05:07 and.. the rebooting is fixed. :) 03:07:29 --- quit: alex4nder ("sleep") 03:14:52 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 03:21:59 --- join: Snoopy_1711 (i=Snoopy_1@dslb-088-068-217-060.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 03:23:59 --- join: proteusguy (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 03:40:27 --- quit: Snoopy_1611 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:41:33 --- join: Tiders (n=shawn@dhcp-0-11-9-9f-90-ef.cpe.quickclic.net) joined #forth 04:38:24 --- join: segher (n=segher@84-105-60-153.cable.quicknet.nl) joined #forth 04:39:49 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:40:01 --- join: Zarutian (n=zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 04:41:59 --- join: I440r (n=me@c-69-136-171-118.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 04:44:58 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 06:33:27 --- join: xpololz (n=xpololz@90.80-203-124.nextgentel.com) joined #forth 06:34:46 What is the command to view my forth code in assembly language? :) 06:34:54 I'm using gforth 06:39:47 --- quit: xpololz (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:40:08 --- join: xpololz (n=xpololz@90.80-203-124.nextgentel.com) joined #forth 06:55:03 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pops@adsl-99-150-132-96.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 07:23:16 xpololz, disassem? i dont know i would never use gforth myself :) 08:33:04 --- join: shawn_ (n=shawn@dhcp-0-11-9-9f-90-ef.cpe.quickclic.net) joined #forth 08:34:09 --- join: GeDaMo (n=gedamo@dyn-62-56-89-110.dslaccess.co.uk) joined #forth 09:02:34 --- quit: crc (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:02:37 --- join: crc___ (n=charlesc@c-68-80-139-0.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:02:37 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc___ 09:02:52 --- nick: crc___ -> crc 09:17:06 --- nick: madwork_ -> madwork 09:37:10 --- join: qFox (n=C00K13S@5356B263.cable.casema.nl) joined #forth 09:38:44 --- quit: shawn_ (Client Quit) 09:39:43 --- quit: crc (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:40:09 --- join: crc (n=charlesc@c-68-80-139-0.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:40:09 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 09:44:00 --- quit: crc (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:44:04 --- join: crc (n=charlesc@c-68-80-139-0.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:44:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 09:57:23 --- quit: xpololz (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:57:38 --- join: xpololz (n=xpololz@90.80-203-124.nextgentel.com) joined #forth 10:02:07 --- join: alex4nder (n=alexande@wsip-72-215-164-129.sb.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 10:02:18 --- quit: alex4nder (Client Quit) 10:07:47 --- join: alex4nder (n=alexande@wsip-72-215-164-129.sb.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 10:07:54 re.. 10:21:06 --- quit: crc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:21:34 --- quit: I440r ("Leaving") 10:24:47 --- join: crc (n=charlesc@c-68-80-139-0.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 10:24:47 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 10:30:15 --- join: forther (i=62d2faca@gateway/web/freenode/x-sadeininylqdesvj) joined #forth 10:30:38 --- quit: crc (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:30:58 xpololz: see youword 10:31:35 --- join: crc (n=charlesc@c-68-80-139-0.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 10:31:35 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 10:37:07 --- join: Maki (n=Maki@dynamic-109-121-73-52.adsl.eunet.rs) joined #forth 10:40:00 --- quit: crc (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:41:13 Maki: hey 10:42:25 Hello Alex4nder. 10:42:44 Any news from Stephen? 10:42:46 --- join: crc (n=charlesc@c-68-80-139-0.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 10:42:46 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 10:43:39 nothing from Stephen 10:43:55 but I did get the PIT, interrupts/AIC, and flash working last night. 10:44:02 :) 10:44:30 have you messed with the flash controller on the at91 devicesA? 10:44:50 nope 10:45:37 I never used AT91... 10:47:29 http://pastebin.com/d6588d460 10:47:47 I ended up getting the flashing code working,. but I made a bunch of boneheaded mistakes at 2:00 last night. 10:48:22 and now I understand how it works, I'll rewrite all of that. ;)( 10:48:24 such is life. 10:52:09 --- quit: crc (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 10:52:57 --- join: crc (n=charlesc@c-68-80-139-0.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 10:52:57 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 10:53:13 Why the template? Could you use CODE word? IIRC cross compiler supports it. 10:56:17 last night I was fighting with getting the offsets to the code words, so I just assembled them and tossed them into the dictionary. 10:57:02 I was doubly confused, because every time I would write to flash, the chip would reset. 10:57:24 so I thought I was messing up my calling conventions.. turned out that when the flash controller is 'done', it doesn't mean the chip is able to execute from flash. 10:57:48 to test, I was patching code in with openocd, and then executing. 11:10:15 --- quit: crc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:12:18 --- quit: xjrn (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 11:53:37 --- join: GoNoGo (n=GoNoGo@cro34-3-82-236-93-215.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 12:15:36 --- quit: xpololz (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:34:16 --- join: xpololz (n=xpololz@90.80-203-124.nextgentel.com) joined #forth 12:59:24 --- quit: xpololz (Client Quit) 13:09:08 --- quit: dandersen (Remote closed the connection) 13:17:22 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 13:18:58 --- quit: GoNoGo (Client Quit) 13:19:30 --- join: dandersen (n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen) joined #forth 13:22:23 --- quit: forther (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) 13:37:12 --- quit: alex4nder ("bbl, lunch") 13:38:14 --- quit: insomnia (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 13:40:57 This book that I have to learn forth prints everything that you type into the terminal as CAPITALS do I type them in like that too? 13:42:18 It depends on the implementation but probably not nowadays 13:42:31 Is it better form? 13:42:39 How do most do it? 13:44:09 --- join: erider (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/erider) joined #forth 13:49:23 --- quit: pgas (Remote closed the connection) 13:53:32 Tiders: Is your Forth case sensitive? 14:04:18 Maki, How can I know 14:04:25 Maki, Doesnt seem to be 14:05:09 Unless you've set sensitivity, it's a typographic convention as is usually documented. 14:05:23 --- join: tathi (n=josh@dsl-216-227-91-166.fairpoint.net) joined #forth 14:05:37 PoppaVic, So if I have the choice is it better form to type in all caps or all lower 14:06:17 "yes" 14:06:21 42 14:06:36 Which one 14:06:43 Im asking should I type in all caps OR all lower? 14:06:58 "yes". That's the answer: 42 14:07:56 I see 14:08:54 * dandersen suggests mixing them a bit for fun, LiKe ThIs. 14:10:09 Tiders: lowercase is fine. 14:10:53 tathi, Thanks you gave the most informative answer xD 14:11:05 Tiders: I was away. Which Forth system do you use? 14:12:23 Usually Forth is not case sensitive so you can type as you choose. 14:13:08 1 2 3 sWaP rOt ok 14:13:08 .S <3> 3 2 1 ok 14:14:13 Tiders: which book are you reading? 14:16:15 Man, I hope I have some time for Forth stuff this year 14:16:24 madwork: busy busy? 14:16:28 Yeah 14:16:37 Released two iPhone apps in 2009 XD 14:16:40 It sure beats the alternative. 14:18:41 Going to aim for more like 6 in 2010 14:18:56 But, still plan to make my Forthish fun hackin' retro environment 14:19:15 Maki, The brodie one 14:19:21 Maki, Starting Forth 14:21:22 ahh 14:21:43 That is kinda old... 14:21:43 Maki, Huh? 14:22:33 Maki, I know its old but Im mainly just learning Forth to learn a bit of machine stuff and how it works... Its one of 4 languages on my schedule to learn different paradigms 14:23:01 ok then. Good luck :) 14:23:13 Maki, Unless you think this book is too dated to do that? 14:24:05 Well AFAIR it uses examples from older standard. 14:24:05 FORTH is old ;) 14:24:41 madwork: That is a good thing :) 14:24:41 But the concept is forevah! 14:25:06 So this book is probaly fine for what Im learning it for? 14:25:13 Totally 14:25:37 Tings tech-refs are quite possibly the nicest Forth "works". Loeligers TIL book was very good. F83 and F-pc were fine examples of Forths. 14:25:41 My route is Forth for machine > then Modulas > Smalltalk > Lisp > C 14:26:19 --- quit: qFox (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:26:24 C and Lisp last? Blasphemy! 14:26:41 Well most of this stuff Im learning to build up to learning C 14:26:45 And doing Kernel dev 14:35:32 You could skip the Modulas, and do C right after Forth. 14:37:47 Yeah Forth -> C -> Lisp sounds like a good plan. I'd add some ASM somewhere though. 14:39:01 -> scheme -> asm ->Forth -> C -> scheme/lisp <- ;) 14:39:35 Read right-to-left, or left-to-right? 14:40:14 either direction 14:40:43 erider, I was planning on doing forth first though so I get how things are working behind first 14:41:27 then I would start with asm -> forth 14:42:34 ASM take long to learn? 14:43:06 depends 14:43:28 Well the only pogramming language I know AT ALL is Python but I dont even know it all that well 14:43:37 Tiders: My first language was Lisp, and my second was C. I suffered from "high-level"ism. 14:43:38 Forth ive just started today 14:43:47 Tiders: The lower you start, the better, methinks. 14:44:05 dandersen, Thats why a friend of mine who is a University prof suggested starting with Forth and moving on to learn different paradigms from there 14:44:48 Tiders: It's a good idea, but if you can afford to learn ASM first, do so. 14:45:15 I went BASIC -> x86 asm -> PPC asm -> C -> C++ -> Forth -> lots of other things... I had trouble getting away from the low-level stuff. 14:45:29 Still have a tendency to premature optimization... 14:45:46 lmao @ what premature optimization sounds like 14:46:18 It's worse than what I think you're thinking of. 14:46:32 Huh? 14:46:36 Heh 14:47:23 * dandersen sometimes does premature optimization in his head, before even writing any code. 14:48:04 I like API's, so I plan out structs and funcs first, before writing anything that Runs. 14:48:12 protocols 14:48:15 Whats an API? 14:48:30 API and ABI - important terms. Google. 14:48:42 Alright 14:48:46 --- quit: GeDaMo ("Leaving.") 14:49:01 FFI is another term/phrase to recall 14:49:09 lifo, fifo, 14:58:37 Tiders: you should learn asm with a debugger (trace programs and watch them) 14:58:50 --- nick: Snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy_1611 14:59:08 erider, What do you mean 15:01:56 --- quit: Maki ("Leaving") 15:02:46 Tiders: get a debugger install it then get a tutorial on line about asm (use nasm "there is a lot of docs") to get up and going on syntax. then start tracing programs with a debugger to watch how things work in a real program. 16:41:34 --- join: alex4nder (n=user@dsl093-145-168.sba1.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #forth 16:41:38 hey 16:52:10 ：） 16:52:17 :) 17:00:07 how's it? 17:03:21 --- join: JFLF (n=JF@150.203.5.213) joined #forth 17:36:55 --- join: crc (n=charlesc@c-68-80-139-0.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 17:36:56 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 18:11:29 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 18:39:38 Why is my forth interpretter reading things inside bnrackets 18:39:58 ? 18:41:49 crc, This book is saying to do notation inside brackets arent thsoe just comments? 18:41:58 But its coming up as an error in the interprettor 18:42:03 which book? 18:42:11 Starting forth .. Brodie 18:42:33 what chapter? 18:43:11 Umm 18:43:12 1 18:43:14 Lol 18:43:21 I just started today 18:43:57 ok 18:44:08 Tiders, please copy and paste the offending line. 18:44:09 what is one of the examples you're having problems with? 18:44:37 : ten.less (n1, n2 -- sum) -10 + 18:44:37 ^^^^ 18:44:37 Backtrace: 18:44:37 $7F65333597D0 throw 18:44:37 $7F653336E288 no.extensions 18:44:51 there should be a space after ( 18:44:55 Oh seriously? 18:44:58 yes 18:45:00 Gah 18:45:10 ( is a word, so it has to be delimited by whitespace 18:45:17 "(" is a word like any other, that indicates the beginning of a comment. 18:45:23 Theonly other programming language Ive tried is Python and whitepsace doesnt do much in that 18:46:00 all forth words must be separated by whitespace 18:46:10 Yeah I wasnt thinking like that 18:46:19 As a bracket being a word 18:46:59 everything is words and numbers in forth :) 18:50:35 Alright Im sure Ill get used to it after a bit xD 18:52:04 well, everything is a word.. Some end up being numbers and not "looked up" ;-) 18:53:41 Just curious is arithmetic written in postfix in C as well or no? 18:53:52 c is infix 18:54:31 Oh okay 18:55:14 What compiler / interpretter should I use for learning Forth on Linux? Right now I use gforth 18:55:31 gforth is a good choice 18:55:52 Gforth works ok.. Docs ain't bad.. Pforth is also C.. pfe works, usually.. 18:56:20 I leave gforth run in a termwin tab - for tinkering 18:56:37 * crc has his own forth, but it's outside the mainstream 18:57:15 yah.. there are several.. factor is odd as hell, retro, isforth, etc. 18:57:32 factor isn't really a forth though 18:57:42 it's weird, though ;-) 18:58:03 Is gforth fine then? 18:58:06 yes 18:58:09 sure 18:58:18 I just put a couple ARM machines on eBay that would be good Forth boxes, if anyone needs hardware. 18:58:20 gforth embodies all the usual forth-ness 18:58:51 (a NetWinder, and a Zaurus SL-5000) 18:59:03 I dunno if the editor words are there, as I never looked.. Not used a forth "editor" since F-pc 19:00:25 Wow these diagrams in Brodies "starting forth" are pretty ridiculous and are getting more and more ridiculous as I go xd 19:00:30 * crc used to have a zaurus. that was a nice machine... 19:02:13 Any way to get a .PDF of this book? 19:02:28 crc: yah. I thought the zaurus would make a good forth PDA. with the keyboard and all. 19:03:02 Tiders: get used to the fact that most anyone that cares to code buys dead-trees. 19:03:56 PoppaVic, His book is available online I just wanted to know if theres a way to get it as a .PDF 19:06:58 not legally 19:30:32 --- quit: erider ("ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.6/20091201220228]") 19:45:25 --- quit: alex4nder (Remote closed the connection) 19:54:44 --- join: gogonkt_ (n=info@119.126.14.130) joined #forth 20:07:52 --- quit: gogonkt (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:10:11 Tiders: gforth is fine for learning. 20:10:18 Good as any. 20:10:27 Alright 20:10:53 crc: which Zaurus? 20:11:44 Yes, I think that Starting Forth and Thinking Forth are out there in pdf. I'm sure Thinking Forth is; I posted a link a while back. 20:11:49 Starting Forth may be html. 20:11:53 Can't remember for sure. 20:12:25 Couldn't say for sure if what I found was legal, though. 20:12:50 I own a paper copy of both, though. 20:12:57 --- part: crc left #forth 20:12:58 TF was OOP and the author placed the pdf and html in the PD 20:13:09 --- join: crc (n=charlesc@c-68-80-139-0.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 20:13:09 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 20:13:13 on the pdq 20:13:21 and the qt.. ok? ;-) 20:13:54 KipIngram: SL-5500 20:16:33 I had a machine called Zaurus once. But I think they made a rather wide variety of units by that name. Mine was mostly a PDA. It was a little 3.5x6.0 or so clamshell with a usable keyboard and an LCD screen. It had PIM icons along the left and right edges of the screen and the middle part was the actual display. 20:16:49 You couldn't run arbitrary programs on it without hacking it. 20:16:58 mine ran a linux distro 20:17:02 But wow I could type fast on that keyboard considering its size. 20:17:13 I hadn't discovered Linux then. 20:17:48 I was using that when I met my wife, which was early January 1996. 20:21:13 Back to the books - Starting Forth was the first Forth book I ever bought. I thought it was fine, though I enjoyed "Forth Fundamentals" volume 1 more in terms of basic ed. 20:21:37 I consider "Thinking Forth" to be profound, though. It really cuts to the philosophy of the language. 20:21:42 the latter in Ting, iirc 20:21:47 is 20:22:10 I think it was C. Kevin McCabe. 20:22:20 Forth-PC tech-ref and User-ref.. Loeliger.. 20:22:34 I'd have to run up and look to be sure; it's on the shelf upstairs. 20:25:40 made a spinach-garlic-parm sourdough today 20:26:10 I had to knead that sucker like 4 times.. it was rising faster than I could wash a few dishes.. 20:28:02 --- quit: JFLF ("Leaving") 20:28:43 I'd love that recipie. I haven't made bread from scratch for a while, unless you count pizza crust. 20:29:16 wasn't really a "recipe" - I faked it, folding everyhting into a normal mix. 20:29:32 If I recall "Starting Forth" was more about *using* the language, and "Forth Fudamentals" was more of an architectural view. 20:30:15 I'd already tried to roll my own Forth before reading FFv1, and reading it was a real eye-opener. I discovered how much smarter CM was than i. ;-) 20:30:28 FF? 20:30:35 ahh 20:30:37 Forth Fundamentals. 20:31:20 --- quit: gogonkt_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:31:22 Well, your bread still sounds yummy. 20:31:30 Faked or not. 20:31:39 yeah, came out nice.. Not really garlicly 20:32:46 --- join: proteusguy (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 20:37:48 --- join: gogonkt (n=info@121.9.35.11) joined #forth 20:40:58 --- join: JFLF (n=JF@150.203.5.213) joined #forth 20:40:59 --- quit: Tiders (Remote closed the connection) 20:49:07 --- quit: JFLF ("Leaving") 20:50:18 --- join: JFLF (n=JF@150.203.5.213) joined #forth 21:01:33 ok - sleep well 21:15:26 --- part: KipIngram left #forth 21:15:55 --- join: KipIngram (n=kip@173-11-138-177-houston.txt.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 21:36:58 --- quit: segher ("This computer has gone to sleep") 21:55:36 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:56:33 --- join: xpololz (n=xpololz@90.80-203-124.nextgentel.com) joined #forth 22:02:04 --- join: proteusguy (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 22:49:05 --- quit: xpololz (Client Quit) 23:14:20 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x708D5A0C) joined #forth 23:20:21 --- quit: Snoopy_1611 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 23:21:02 --- join: Snoopy_1611 (i=Snoopy_1@dslb-084-059-125-101.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 23:31:53 --- quit: PoppaVic (Client Quit) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/10.01.05