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I was polling the PIT today, and requesting info about the flash status. 10:48:50 ah 10:49:09 what are you developing with your setup? 10:49:51 Warious industrial control embedded systems 10:50:19 nice,. are you doing anything with CAN? 10:50:27 nope 10:51:06 You never told me about your current app... 10:51:15 Is it a hobby? 10:51:59 it's a new product for automotive vehicle communications 10:52:17 ah thats why CAN... 10:52:18 what I'm working on right now does translation from different incompatible automotive communication busses. 10:52:34 and will make different manufacturers' products work together 10:52:46 nice :) 10:53:28 Can you tell me which busses? 10:54:21 the low level is all either CAN, LIN (e.g. ISO-9141) or RS232C 10:54:33 and they speak different application protocols on top of those busses. 10:56:20 Nice project. Good luck with you work :) 10:57:04 thank you 10:57:13 good luck with yours 10:58:26 I'm as of recent unemployed. But my recent project was in galvanics. 10:59:06 I was responsible for measuring currents in cataforesics 11:00:24 and convert, scale and transfer to pc and place al the data in mySQL database... 11:01:36 that sounds interesting. did you guys design the hardware in-house? 11:01:50 cataforesics is the bath where shell of a car passes and get painted with protective paint. 11:02:05 everything is designed in-house. 11:02:19 I'm sorry about your job; I hope you find something equally interesting soon. 11:02:28 It was for factory Zastava, now owned by Fiat. 11:02:34 ah 11:03:21 I quit. Too litle job recently and mu expences increased... 11:03:47 oh, well that's good then. :D 11:04:28 Yes soon I'm going to become a dad :o) 11:04:35 GRATS :) 11:04:53 thanks :) 11:05:13 congrats! 11:05:19 :) 11:07:24 Maki: what do you want to work on next? 11:08:17 where ever and whatever :) 11:08:43 Mostly embedded systems... 11:09:58 I have a pet project with forth processor in FPGA and I'm curently polishing it. 11:10:26 nice 11:10:53 It is currently on my table and interrupts are banging text on a display. 11:11:40 I've copied mechanism of timers from PowerForth. I like it! 11:12:17 --- join: crcx (i=d8012b82@gateway/web/freenode/x-fhzagvkdbrohnedu) joined #forth 11:12:30 Recently I added a feature of extended marker. Very useful when using timers... 11:12:52 hrm im not sure if i implemented timers in isforth or not 11:13:00 i got signals etc so i guess so 11:13:03 Maki: cool, I'll have to check those out. 11:14:01 I had a problem when I execute marker timers still periodically access code thet is out of valid dictionary. 11:14:41 And when new code gets compiled system chrases. 11:16:03 So extendibile marker allows to add code to check if timer has a XT that is out of valid dictionary and if it does timer gets disabled 11:18:07 mark4: no IsForth for win? 11:20:10 there is a dos version 11:21:15 is this a correct website: http://www.isforth.com/download.php 11:21:57 yes 11:22:03 eh isforth is ALL win 11:22:06 except when its not :/ 11:22:11 yes 11:22:20 ooh no. none for windows 11:28:25 Maki: what's your dev environment like when you're using the MPE tools? I'm thinking I'm just going to use emacs' run-forth, and connect over the serial port to a standalone forth. 11:28:36 and then cross compile once my code works. 11:30:44 I do just like you are planning to. 11:31:03 cool. 11:31:18 I'm using FlashMagic to flash new cross compiled kernel. 11:31:39 MPE has a reflash system. I never look into it... 11:31:59 cool.. I'm using OpenOCD with a J-Link, and it's flakey. 11:32:13 It allows to reflash from interactive forth. 11:33:39 I hate when I have to correct code by instructing the cross compiler what is CDATA and what is IDATA :( 11:33:52 does that happen often? 11:34:20 When I test application and want to cross compile it. 11:34:42 default is cdata. 11:35:12 ah 11:35:44 There are limitations with MPEs system especialy when you need to extent cross compiler. There is no docs provided :( 11:35:55 *extend 11:36:38 But what expect want for 100$... 11:37:42 yup. 11:38:09 Which terminal software are you using? 11:38:24 screen or kermit 11:38:49 You are not using the one in AIDE? 11:39:05 no, I'm running this all on top of Linux 11:39:12 ahh 11:39:46 Stephen sent me the Linux environment, with the assumption that I could figure things out of stuff was broken. :) 11:39:46 How do you transfer files from Emacs to PowerForth? 11:40:41 usually I just highlight regions in emacs, and C-C C-R 11:41:04 I did that until disaster happend! 11:41:48 oh yah? 11:42:28 Forth system was connected to a hydraulic press, and when I copied some code there was an error and interpreter recovered and executed a piece of code that closess press down 11:42:45 --- join: xjrn (n=jim@astound-69-42-10-25.ca.astound.net) joined #forth 11:42:46 the tool was smashed! 11:43:05 damn. 11:43:15 the press had to be open with special tools and for two days 11:43:59 So I built a include server inside a terminal software 11:44:24 And now I have no problem. Transfer stops if an error is detected. 11:44:44 yah, that's probably worth it. 11:45:27 If your linux terminals allow extensions you could make that. 11:45:50 There is a good quality code in include.fth 11:47:17 ahh. That is my file. It is: textfile.fth 11:47:18 I wrote something similar to that, for amforth, but I haven't employed it yet with powerforth. 11:48:17 How do you like AMForh? 11:48:32 *AMForth 11:48:58 it works pretty well. 11:49:10 I found a bug or two, but it's free, and the developers took the patches. 11:49:34 Is it only for 8bitters? 11:49:44 yah 11:49:55 it also doesn't slim down super small. 11:50:02 but it works well on the atmega128 I used. 11:54:34 alex4nder: Are you located in europe? 11:56:44 Maki: No, California 11:57:21 Ahh sunny California :) 12:06:01 --- join: Maki_ (n=Maki@dynamic-109-121-73-52.adsl.eunet.rs) joined #forth 12:11:03 Maki_: yah,.. californiai is definitely sunny. 12:23:32 --- quit: Maki (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:28:04 Maki_: I think I see what you mean about requiring the cross-compiler for interrupts. 12:28:12 it looks like IRQ: and FIRQ: are interpreter words. 12:46:58 oh maki lol there IS a as yet unreleased DOS version of isforth :) 12:47:04 but no windows :P 12:50:10 doze.. and - this is a plus.... Why? 12:50:50 dos > windows 12:51:02 dos only sucks. it doesnt BLOW completely like windows 12:51:20 every new OS microsoft has produced has been a downgrade from the previous one\ 12:51:24 dos is super cp/m... cp/m was simple, embedded simple-Nix. 12:54:25 mark4: frankly, I feel the same about linux. It takes a decade or three of overview to grasp it. 12:57:43 alex4nder: I was away. Dinner. Yes interpreter words. I never tried to make target equivalents... 12:59:17 Maki_: cross-compiler/metacompiler? It can be a chore. 12:59:58 yes but the difference is. once you grasp it problem solved 13:00:02 --- join: Snoopy_1611 (i=Snoopy_1@dslb-088-068-217-060.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 13:00:19 yes 13:00:53 well, ok.. you got the same headaches and Life analogs into it, etc.. Same Problem - Different Day. 13:01:24 nobody can use a computer without having problems. its the nature of the beast 13:01:36 I watch folks ridicule forths all the time.. makes me laugh.. 13:01:50 in windows you have the same problems over and over and over and over and over ad nausium 13:01:52 otoh, there is no FORTH 13:02:01 in linux you have a problem you find the solution and no problem 13:02:24 and there is no one PROBLEM. so, it works out - I mostly think people are Soylent Green On THe Hoof. ;-) 13:02:44 Maki_: yah, I don't know if there's some reason they made the choice to only do it in the interpreter because of the template, or for some other reason. 13:02:54 the only REAL problem in linux is finding the solution to your everyday problems the firs time 13:03:17 linux is an experimental OS where everyone wants to tuck their toys into the Kernel - meaning ring0 - meaning THe master program.. Making me laugh harder 13:04:32 linux is an experiment in the same way windows is a professional piece of shit 13:04:52 alex4nder: I never investigated that in depth. 13:05:07 mark4: well, I won't argue the Shit.. 13:10:28 I like the look of the Beagleboard,. that'd be a cool rig to run Forth on, or ColorForth 13:21:05 --- join: forther (i=cf2f2264@gateway/web/freenode/x-vtjunhrbzcgttpbe) joined #forth 13:21:13 hi all 13:25:45 --- join: erider (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/erider) joined #forth 13:29:21 forther: hey 13:34:42 --- join: GoNoGo (n=GoNoGo@cro34-3-82-236-93-215.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 13:41:13 --- quit: gnomon (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:41:31 --- join: gnomon (n=gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 13:48:47 --- part: ccfg left #forth 13:59:57 --- quit: GoNoGo (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 14:02:16 --- quit: pgas ("/quit") 14:08:29 --- quit: crcx ("Page closed") 14:09:27 --- join: qFox (n=C00K13S@5356B263.cable.casema.nl) joined #forth 14:12:04 --- quit: GeDaMo ("Leaving.") 14:18:39 --- join: JFLF (n=JF@150.203.5.213) joined #forth 14:22:58 --- quit: alex4nder (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 14:38:31 --- join: xpololz (n=xpololz@90.80-203-124.nextgentel.com) joined #forth 14:39:17 --- quit: Maki_ ("Leaving") 14:48:44 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 15:02:30 --- quit: xpololz (Client Quit) 15:16:35 --- quit: forther ("Page closed") 15:18:05 --- quit: qFox ("Time for cookies!") 15:22:38 --- join: JoshGrams (n=josh@dsl-216-227-91-166.fairpoint.net) joined #forth 15:26:37 --- quit: tathi (Nick collision from services.) 15:26:42 --- nick: JoshGrams -> tathi 15:41:08 --- quit: tathi (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 15:41:13 --- join: JoshGrams (n=josh@dsl-216-227-91-166.fairpoint.net) joined #forth 15:41:26 --- nick: JoshGrams -> tathi 16:22:49 --- join: alex4nder (n=alexande@dsl093-145-168.sba1.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #forth 16:31:22 --- join: alex4nde` (n=user@dsl093-145-168.sba1.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #forth 16:32:05 hey 16:32:47 hey 16:32:53 how's it? 16:33:35 Good thanks, you? 16:34:05 pretty good 16:34:10 :) 16:34:15 about to test my interrup code on this chip 16:34:31 wishing that openocd didn't suck so bad. 16:35:39 ARM chip? 16:36:39 yah, SAM7A3 16:41:09 oh.. openocd in this version of debian is 1.0 16:41:37 Ah the joys of Debian. :) Always a few releases late! 16:41:53 yah. 16:47:31 I came to the conclusion some time ago that if you code embedded software under Linux, you have to run a VM with Windows in it just to do the programming and stuff like that. 16:47:48 Except for a few chips, most of the Linux tools are sadly sub-par. 16:47:52 yah.. it seems like that. 16:48:08 I've cobbled together enough to program the SAM7A3 using the J-Link I have 16:48:24 but like.. last night, I tried to unlock the flash pages in OpenOCD, and it failed. 16:48:44 turns out, OpenOCD's code is busted, so I had to MWW directly. 16:50:30 it took longer to realize openocd was busted, than to look up what I needed to write in the datasheet. 16:52:58 Was the datasheet correct? 16:53:37 yup. I got everything unlocked. 16:54:49 Good :) 17:02:41 --- join: madwork_ (n=madgarde@204.138.110.15) joined #forth 17:06:40 --- join: TZX_ZAgiY (n=malyn@server.strangeGizmo.com) joined #forth 17:09:02 --- quit: crc (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:09:03 --- quit: nottwo (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:09:03 --- quit: madwork (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:09:04 --- quit: segher (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:09:04 --- quit: Zarutian (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:09:04 --- quit: madgarden (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:09:04 --- quit: malyn (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:09:39 --- nick: TZX_ZAgiY -> malyn 17:15:39 --- join: segher (n=segher@84-105-60-153.cable.quicknet.nl) joined #forth 17:17:35 --- join: crc (n=charlesc@c-68-80-139-0.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 17:17:35 --- join: nottwo (n=trannie@designvox-gw.iserv.net) joined #forth 17:17:35 --- join: Zarutian (n=zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 17:17:35 --- join: madgarden (n=madgarde@CPE001d7e527f89-CM00159a65a870.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 17:17:35 --- mode: irc.freenode.net set +o crc 17:23:28 --- quit: Zarutian (Connection timed out) 17:35:54 --- quit: alex4nde` (Remote closed the connection) 18:29:01 --- quit: erider ("ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.6/20091201220228]") 18:36:40 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 19:25:08 --- quit: mark4 ("Leaving") 19:39:03 --- join: Tiders (n=shawn@dhcp-0-11-9-9f-90-ef.cpe.quickclic.net) joined #forth 19:39:06 Hello 19:40:55 Hi Tiders 19:41:29 Someone recommended me to starting off programming in Forth to learn a lot of concepts.. All I have is about half a book of knowledge in Python 19:41:32 What do you guys think? 19:42:15 * PoppaVic chuckles 19:42:26 ##C was too wude ;-) 19:42:40 I'm currently a beginner in Forth myself, although I'm fluent a few languages. 19:43:04 So with that in mind, I would say you might be in for a fairly rough ride. 19:43:13 PoppaVic, They are the ones that got me away from wanting to learn C 19:43:20 Nothing impossible though. 19:43:26 forth is interactive, and more than happy to let you blow yer pecker off.. Excellent choice for a basics language. 19:43:57 Tiders: I know, I was watching. Good luck.. Invest the dollars and time into the books, reading and keyboard. 19:44:37 How is this online book? 19:44:49 http://www.forth.com/starting-forth/sf1/sf1.html 19:45:36 Can't comment on that one, I haven't used it. 19:45:39 You can try: 19:45:59 http://ficl.sourceforge.net/pdf/Forth_Primer.pdf 19:46:29 http://www.mpeforth.com/arena/ProgramForth.pdf 19:46:33 I like the last one. 19:46:54 Another book from Brodie: 19:46:56 http://thinking-forth.sourceforge.net/ 19:47:26 starting forth is nice, but quite old now 19:47:54 PoppaVic, What did you mean invest the dollars and time into books and keyboard? 19:48:11 I've still my hardcover, but so what? I've got the Starting Forth hardcover as well. 19:48:48 Tiders: I said what I meant.. It's like learning to cook, be a mechanic, painter, builder, plumber. You invest the time and tools or not. 19:49:29 Tiders: what are you trying to do with the language? 19:50:13 alex4nder, Im just looking to get into programming as a career after university and someone said Forth is a great place to start since it teaches machine stuff 19:51:00 ah. 19:51:11 Tiders: do you want to stay pretty close to the machine? 19:52:10 Well my end goal is to get into system and kernel developement 19:53:10 yah, then Forth would be perfect. 19:53:17 * PoppaVic chuckles 19:53:27 I'm tilting up the interrupt controller on a new dev board right now. 19:53:49 alex4nder, how is it going? 19:54:03 alex4nder, Im a newbie to programming though is this going to be really difficult for me? 19:54:16 Tiders, well most kernels and low-level tools are written in C with bits of assembly here and there. 19:55:00 JFLF: my board resets whenever I enable system interrupts.. trying to figure out why. 19:55:19 Tiders: not really,.. you have to keep a lot in your head, but Forth lets you do that pretty easily. 19:55:40 alex4nder, So a good place to start if I want to go to C++ or C at some point? 19:56:08 Tiders: if you want to understand what C and C++ are actually doing, then yah it's a good spot. 19:56:20 I started the opposite direction, and get frustrated every time something went wrong. 19:56:46 if I had started with Forth, I would have understood all of the fundamentals enough to completely understand what the compiler was doing. 19:57:24 I figure, really, if you go online.. to irc.. to ask "What SHould I learn" - it's already dead, ,done and over. 19:57:46 PoppaVic, Whys that 19:58:06 asking that is part of the reason. 19:58:42 Tiders: if you want to learn system programming, I'd pick something cool you want to do (e.g. make a motor turn), and the implement it. 19:58:57 er then 19:58:58 alex4nder, is your board stuck in an endless reset loop? 19:59:10 JFLF: not endless, I'm just not setting up the vectored interrupt controller correctly. 19:59:52 alex4nder, well if you have a LED and nothing better you can try lighting it when you hit an interrupt routine. 20:01:26 JFLF: Yah,.. I'm going a bit deeper than that right now. 20:01:50 the interrupt controller is triggering, and calling into the require datastructures ,and then rsetting. 20:03:30 alex4nder, sorry for such a trivial question, but let's cover the bases: do you disable interrupts before servicing the request? I guess not, except it the one hitting you is the NMI. 20:04:21 yah I do 20:04:46 So it's either the NMI, or a hardware issue? 20:05:11 I'm 99% sure it's software. 20:14:06 Where can I get a forth interpretter for Linux 20:14:22 install gforth 20:14:30 http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/gforth.html 20:14:33 Does it come in a .deb anywhere? 20:14:55 sudo dpkg -i gforth 20:15:16 Actually: sudo apt-get install gforth 20:15:25 Yeah thats what I did 20:16:05 Is it just a command line thing or does it come with an environment? 20:16:18 Command line. 20:16:28 How do I run it 20:16:47 gforth 20:16:57 Gotcha 20:17:04 Can the interpretter run files as well? 20:17:04 * PoppaVic facepalms... 20:17:07 Like forth files? 20:17:22 http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/gforth/Docs-html/Invoking-Gforth.html 20:17:53 Read the manual, you'll learn a lot. 20:17:55 http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/gforth/Docs-html/ 20:27:37 * alex4nder figures out part of the problem. 20:31:34 except this disassembler doesn't seem to be available. 20:45:51 --- join: dandersen (n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen) joined #forth 20:50:11 --- quit: JFLF ("Leaving") 21:07:17 --- quit: Tiders ("Leaving") 21:11:08 OK, interrupts work. 21:12:42 * alex4nder does the happy dance. 21:13:06 0x00000018 0xe51fff20 LDR r15, [r15, #-0xf20] 21:13:06 0x0000001c 0xe51fff24 LDR r15, [r15, #-0xf24] 21:18:42 --- quit: gogonkt ("leaving") 21:19:22 --- join: gogonkt (n=info@119.126.2.247) joined #forth 21:26:29 --- join: JFLF (n=JF@150.203.5.213) joined #forth 21:45:20 --- quit: PoppaVic (Client Quit) 21:46:19 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:52:37 --- quit: JFLF (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:02:45 --- quit: KipIngram ("WeeChat 0.2.6") 23:03:59 --- join: KipIngram (n=kip@173-11-138-177-houston.txt.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 23:35:48 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x708D5A0C) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/10.01.04