00:00:00 --- log: started forth/10.01.02 00:17:23 --- quit: xpololz (Client Quit) 00:27:56 --- join: qFox (n=C00K13S@5356B263.cable.casema.nl) joined #forth 00:43:33 --- join: pgas (n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/pgas) joined #forth 00:48:06 --- quit: segher ("This computer has gone to sleep") 00:57:44 --- join: GeDaMo (n=gedamo@dyn-62-56-89-110.dslaccess.co.uk) joined #forth 01:41:40 --- quit: PoppaVic (Client Quit) 02:31:33 --- quit: pgas (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:50:00 --- join: segher (n=segher@84-105-60-153.cable.quicknet.nl) joined #forth 04:31:02 --- join: tathi (n=josh@dsl-216-227-91-166.fairpoint.net) joined #forth 04:36:30 --- quit: GeDaMo ("Leaving.") 04:51:31 --- join: _mathrick (n=mathrick@83.1.168.198) joined #forth 04:52:39 --- quit: mathrick (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:53:57 --- join: pgas (n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/pgas) joined #forth 05:12:58 --- nick: _mathrick -> mathrick 06:53:30 --- quit: Al2O3 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:53:35 --- join: Zarutian (n=zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 06:54:39 --- join: alex4nder (n=alexande@209-188-124-175.taosnet.com) joined #forth 06:56:22 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@c-75-70-11-191.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:05:31 --- join: TreyB__ (n=trey@76.247.247.96) joined #forth 07:09:05 --- quit: TreyB (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 07:10:35 --- join: proteusguy__ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 07:10:46 --- quit: proteusguy_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:36:01 --- join: GeDaMo (n=gedamo@dyn-62-56-89-110.dslaccess.co.uk) joined #forth 08:07:49 * madgarden is back (gone 09:56:56) 08:14:22 --- quit: alex4nder (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:57:14 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pops@adsl-99-150-132-96.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 09:28:03 --- join: forther (i=1805ab47@gateway/web/freenode/x-faqiaymgqbeswacf) joined #forth 09:28:47 hi all 09:28:52 hi 09:30:06 hey 09:42:47 --- join: Maki (n=Maki@dynamic-109-121-73-52.adsl.eunet.rs) joined #forth 10:36:37 --- join: nighty__ (n=nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 11:01:21 --- quit: forther (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) 11:03:01 --- quit: pgas (Remote closed the connection) 11:03:11 --- join: pgas (n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/pgas) joined #forth 12:06:10 --- join: forther (i=62d2faca@gateway/web/freenode/x-ilyzqgjuexfcxblv) joined #forth 12:32:47 --- join: erider (n=chatzill@pool-173-69-160-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 12:37:13 --- quit: erider (Client Quit) 13:13:51 --- quit: Maki ("Leaving") 13:24:49 --- join: erider (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/erider) joined #forth 14:08:00 --- quit: forther ("Page closed") 14:24:51 --- quit: pgas ("/quit") 14:48:58 --- quit: qFox ("Time for cookies!") 15:03:07 --- quit: GeDaMo ("Leaving.") 15:03:42 --- quit: erider ("ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.6/20091201220228]") 15:16:56 --- join: erider (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/erider) joined #forth 15:18:24 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 15:38:37 --- quit: segher (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:38:37 --- quit: yiyus (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:42:57 --- join: segher (n=segher@84-105-60-153.cable.quicknet.nl) joined #forth 15:43:01 --- join: yiyus (i=12427124@je.je.je) joined #forth 16:59:30 --- join: haiworld (n=haiworld@219.89.222.147) joined #forth 16:59:34 hi all 16:59:52 is there a way to write min (without using if's and local variables?) 17:07:42 haiworld: have you considered the issue? 17:07:54 yes .. in some detail 17:08:06 fine.. what is "min" 17:08:08 i think ;/ 17:09:20 (a b -- min(a, b)) where min(a, b) => a (if a < b) else b 17:09:23 * PoppaVic can't recall using locals in forth - just juggling. 17:10:02 you just spec'd an 'if' - and verbosely explained the issue: think STUPID - and rewrite it. 17:11:32 machines are stupid. So are people. So, 90% of the issue is to write "orders" that defy misinterpretation. 17:12:32 haiworld: MIN suggests a valuem within a range - that's a compare or two, no matter what. 17:13:05 compare to.. what? 17:14:00 --- quit: Frek (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:16:46 a zeroed reference? 17:19:10 still a compare - and if 17:19:58 haiworld: there is a vast advantage to knowing/living a few assemblers, and even C. And, I like forths. 17:20:51 i've been corrupted too muc 17:21:23 likely - or read/done too little. It happens. 17:22:22 haiworld: min: between a low and high N and the lesser of two 17:23:37 min is like a "within" in this way 17:27:29 haiworld: did that help? why are you so "corrupted"? 17:30:56 i will need to dwell on this 17:31:34 feel free. I'm about for the sack, myself. 17:31:48 corrupted, because i listen to too many people tell me how awesome python it ;/ 17:31:51 is* 17:32:20 python and the rest abstract far more than C or forth. 17:33:06 The problems are always simple.. Simple solutions. FIGHTING the compiler/translator/assembler is another mess. 17:34:42 : min 2dup < >r over - r> and + ; 17:34:56 coming in as a total virgin, forth is nice - and FIG-forth was great. So, you still need some books and miles/hours. C is the same. It's not a calculator with graphing and colors. 17:35:14 segher: min WHAT? 17:35:30 that's the point I keep telling kids.. The "what" 17:35:31 min, like "minimum". it's a standard word 17:35:49 i use it _all the time_ (well, umin) 17:36:04 zero is a min, can't work with zero 2x4 or chix-tits. 17:36:14 work AROUND, sure 17:36:21 some cpus have it as an actual machine instruction, for good reason (or, difference-or-zero) 17:36:34 -12 is a min: I got 12 THING I can't handle 17:36:39 have you been drinking again? 17:36:48 heh 17:36:54 segher: well, that was my point: he's abstracted too far, 17:37:55 and yes, - should mean what we call INVERT in standard forth. oh well, i can survive that i suppose :-) 17:38:42 well, it's akin to the IB/UB of C. 17:38:54 what? 17:39:20 ..which I have to attribute to the committee adjourning to titty-bars, but nm that. 17:39:59 segher: min, max, etc: nail down the what. It's still going to be tests/conditions. 17:42:11 ID: implementation-defined; UB: undefined, sorry. I hate those two terms and acronyms. 17:43:05 haiworld: you could use recursion 17:43:31 erider: even with two values? 17:43:55 Somehow, the latter always remind me of the Z80 days and folks wasting forever to declare: "Look, they hid an opcode!" - and Zilog saying, "Dude, it's not supported - any given burn can vary". 17:44:35 anyway.. 17:44:55 yes 17:45:14 Yes. One should always recurse to define a min of N. that's ideal.. Stay well. 17:45:16 --- quit: PoppaVic (Client Quit) 17:46:21 erm, i showed how you do MIN without IF already 17:46:55 just the standard "compare and AND" thing 17:56:10 eek i came up with this monstrosity 17:56:13 2dup < invert rot over invert and rot rot and or . 17:56:22 it is based on your compare and and principle 18:03:38 --- quit: nighty__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:03:38 --- quit: nighty^ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:03:59 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 18:04:08 --- join: nighty__ (n=nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 18:05:05 --- quit: nighty_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:21:08 try to not use ROT , if you use it, you're likely juggling the stack too much 18:21:21 (not always, of course) 18:23:06 if you change your thing to use XOR (and get rid of ROT), you end up with my thing (but twice XOR instead of + and -, same thing) 18:51:17 --- join: proteusguy_ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 19:00:46 --- quit: proteusguy__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:32:04 --- quit: proteusguy_ (Client Quit) 19:32:24 --- join: proteusguy (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 19:42:58 --- join: alex4nder (n=alexande@cm-24-121-8-160.flagstaff.az.npgco.com) joined #forth 19:42:59 hey 19:54:21 --- quit: erider ("ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.6/20091201220228]") 20:01:54 --- join: alex4nde1 (n=alexande@174-158-103-147.pools.spcsdns.net) joined #forth 20:07:36 --- quit: alex4nder (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:12:24 --- join: alex4nder (n=alexande@cm-24-121-8-160.flagstaff.az.npgco.com) joined #forth 20:32:14 --- quit: alex4nde1 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:05:29 --- quit: alex4nder (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:28:00 --- nick: gogonkt_ -> gogonkt 21:42:29 --- join: alex4nder (n=alexande@cm-24-121-8-160.flagstaff.az.npgco.com) joined #forth 23:08:48 --- join: qFox (n=C00K13S@5356B263.cable.casema.nl) joined #forth 23:19:34 --- join: pgas (n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/pgas) joined #forth 23:50:39 --- quit: segher ("This computer has gone to sleep") 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/10.01.02