00:00:00 --- log: started forth/09.12.13 00:00:19 --- join: GeDaMo (n=gedamo@dyn-62-56-89-110.dslaccess.co.uk) joined #forth 00:00:40 --- quit: madwork (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:16:53 --- join: addled (n=adl@77.208.73.204) joined #forth 00:32:15 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pops@adsl-99-150-133-146.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 00:47:12 --- join: madwork (n=madgarde@204.138.110.15) joined #forth 01:18:09 --- quit: mathrick (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:19:10 --- join: mathrick (n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk) joined #forth 01:31:49 --- quit: addled (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 02:58:09 --- quit: kar8nga (Remote closed the connection) 03:33:21 --- join: kar8nga (n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 03:42:47 --- join: Snoopy_1611 (i=Snoopy_1@dslb-084-059-215-057.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 04:08:32 --- quit: Quartus` ("used jmIrc") 04:42:33 --- join: alex4nder (n=alexande@wsip-72-215-164-129.sb.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 04:42:36 hey 05:06:02 --- join: TR2N (i=email@89.180.191.146) joined #forth 05:23:32 slow, slow day.. My brains are just in neutral. 05:25:52 my brains are writing forth macros 05:26:07 Forth has no "macros" 05:26:49 oh this could get interesting. 05:27:50 PoppaVic: then I must not be doing what I'm doing. :D 05:29:20 alex4nder: That's right. You stop doing it right now. 05:30:50 #define macro(...) /* oh, yes.. this is fun. */ 05:31:29 uh 05:31:39 I'm quite sure alex4nder meant lisp style macros. 05:31:42 Which forth certainly has. 05:32:06 yup 05:33:40 hrm.. stack overflow on compiling sucks 05:35:10 PoppaVic: I'm using :noname and [compile] ; to build hooks at compile time. 05:35:32 .. and some postpones 05:35:42 which for me see measier than Lisp's macro system 05:35:45 ok, and? That means compiling-words 05:35:47 er seem easier 05:36:55 PoppaVic: I'm not arguing with you. 05:37:14 I know, nor am I with you. 05:37:55 the end result of using those words is called a 'macro' in CS. 05:38:17 as you will. Have fun. 05:38:27 haha ok 05:46:05 I think being able to quickly throw together DSLs is the single biggest thing I like about forth. 05:46:06 --- quit: pgas ("/quit") 05:46:44 yup 05:47:25 all this stuff I would normally do at runtime is so easy to do at compile time. 05:48:03 you mean the normal edit/make/preproc/compile/test/debug/goto-zero ;-) 05:49:57 I love that, but I was thinking more that the compiling words let you freely move away from things like run-time lookups of tables 05:50:12 which you can do with the C macro system, if you like pain. 05:53:41 --- quit: yiyus (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:53:41 --- quit: maht (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:53:41 --- quit: gnomon (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:56:46 --- join: gnomon (n=gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 05:57:40 C macro system is some kind of cruel joke :) 05:58:30 C macro system is Turing complete. 05:58:33 :p 05:58:38 You're looking at wrong macros. 05:59:31 --- join: maht (n=maht__@85-189-31-174.proweb.managedbroadband.co.uk) joined #forth 05:59:33 ASau``: YOU'RE turing complete 05:59:49 I'm more than turing-complete :p 06:00:06 --- quit: maht (Killed by reynolds.freenode.net (Nick collision)) 06:00:06 supersweet :) 06:00:06 --- join: maht (n=maht__@85.189.31.174.proweb.managedbroadband.co.uk) joined #forth 06:00:06 --- join: yiyus (i=12427124@je.je.je) joined #forth 06:00:30 --- join: maht_ (n=maht__@85-189-31-174.proweb.managedbroadband.co.uk) joined #forth 06:11:08 We're all more than turing-complete - I think free will, self-awareness, etc. come from something quantum deep down in there. 06:11:16 --- quit: maht (Connection timed out) 06:11:27 Strong ai hypothesis is wrong - they'll never build a turing-style machine that's truly conscious. 06:11:46 * PoppaVic sighs 06:12:59 Dude, they have almost zero idea how people operate. Hell, they can't manage to really define "concious" and "self-aware" - so anything that they make will likely only being "Intelligent" entirely by accident. 06:13:23 I think you just agreed with me, more or less. 06:13:28 yah 06:13:32 We're nowhere close to understanding how we tick. 06:13:49 IF they manage it, they likely will panic and kill it - if possible. 06:13:54 The claims that scientific materialists make to the contrary are the height of arrogance. 06:14:27 I refuse to deal with religion.. I just know accidents can happen. 06:15:50 I don't mean to tie it to religion. The claims those guys (of all stripes) make that they know exactly what the score is also represent the height of arrogance. 06:16:16 To me these are just "unexplained things." 06:16:50 Let them Know.. In a few years, it won't matter. I'm easy. 06:20:14 --- quit: qFox ("Time for cookies!") 06:24:18 :-) Right. I don't try to fathom them myself - I think we never will, at least not in this life. 06:24:53 Life is tough enough minute to minute, day to day.. Let them profess.. 06:25:54 I more or less just decided that determistic science (i.e., everything fully described by initial value problems) couldn't capture free will, and yet free will exists. So it must be quantum, because that's the only "crack" in the determinism of things. I'm willing to leave it at that. 06:26:55 "free will" is random numbers and heuristics Universe or people - I ain't got the spec-sheet: it's on it's own. 06:30:55 We'll just have to differ on that one. I have free will. And self awareness. 06:43:23 KipIngram: You got some proof there is free will about? 06:49:05 --- quit: foxes (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:50:59 --- quit: GeDaMo ("Leaving.") 07:04:08 --- quit: kar8nga (Remote closed the connection) 07:04:46 --- join: foxes (i=flash@221.220.46.126) joined #forth 07:08:15 --- join: tathi (n=josh@dsl-216-227-91-166.fairpoint.net) joined #forth 07:10:46 --- quit: alex4nder (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 07:25:58 --- join: moonpatrol (n=Josh@216-24-104-214.access.naxs.com) joined #forth 07:39:31 can anyone suggest a decent forth interpreter for windows? 07:42:05 I think maybe pforth 07:42:36 pForth? Decent? 07:43:15 Is the only one I know of that I am guessing runs on windows (: 07:43:25 If that's irony, I don't understand it. 07:43:41 I'm not aware of any forth that runs on windows. 07:43:46 --- quit: xjrn (Nick collision from services.) 07:43:49 moonpatrol: WinForth or SP-Forth. 07:43:57 I had the impression that pforth did, so it seems a good bet. 07:44:03 --- join: xjrn (n=jim@astound-69-42-10-25.ca.astound.net) joined #forth 07:44:15 alright, great thanks guys 07:44:17 moonpatrol: if you don't care about native support, use gforth. 07:44:45 ASau`` not really, as of right now it just getting into the language 07:44:53 oh gforth runs on the windows too. coolies. 07:45:02 moonpatrol: then use Gforth. 07:45:43 "Runs on the windows" is an exaggeration. 07:46:03 gforth never runs on the windows, even in linuxen. 07:46:24 What I would like is for it to run on my ARM linux :) 07:46:27 but oh well (: 07:48:11 Huh. Win32Forth doesn't show up too well in Google. 07:48:39 I don't care. 07:48:58 So worse to win32forth. :p 07:49:29 You're very cheerful today. :P 07:50:01 I've worked with MPI today. 07:50:11 Does Forth provides anything close to that? 07:50:34 I don't know MPI 07:50:44 Probably not. :) 07:50:54 http://www.openmpi.org/ 07:51:08 http://www.mcs.anl.gov/research/projects/mpich2/ 07:53:27 What is ANL and what is FIG, go figure. :p 07:57:15 moonpatrol, also Forth Inc's SwiftForth and MPE's VFX Forth (trial versions) may be of interest 07:58:05 probonono: can amauteur afford the purchase? 07:58:07 probonono: alright i'll check those out too 07:58:21 If not, then why the hell do you mention? 07:59:01 "why the hell"? 07:59:07 Sure. 07:59:43 It is better to use full-blown version even open-source 07:59:43 rather than restricted commercial one. 07:59:45 Do I know whether he is an amateur? Do I know what he can afford? No, so why don't I let him make his own decisions? 08:00:07 "Why the hell" don't I ... 08:00:14 "not really, as of right now it just getting into the language" 08:00:14 08:00:23 Do you follow the conversation? 08:00:53 Professionals don't learn Forth. 08:00:54 So professionals are not allowed to ask first time about new languages? 08:01:06 They use major things. 08:01:15 In embedded it is "C". 08:02:23 I can just go and buy ev. board and have C compiler for it. 08:02:32 With all necessary tools. 08:03:11 There's no need to rely on unconventional language with limited use. 08:10:40 Surely an amateur can afford the swiftforth. It's not very pricey. 08:14:03 I like the old Turbo rule: $99 is affordable - less is better; msc at $500 was a total waste of paper. 08:14:44 Never heard of that rule. 08:14:47 I think they're both around $400 US. That's a pretty good chunk for a piece of software. But I know plenty of people who have hobbies more expensive than that. :) 08:15:03 tathi: All my hobbies are more costly than that (: 08:15:22 schme: I think most hobbies probably are, come to think of it. 08:15:33 tathi: yes, many hobbies can EAT more - mind - just the comp is a major investment ;-) 08:16:52 tathi: My main hobby tends to result in me travelling around a bit. I can safely say it costs me more than a yearly 400USD just for the one way ticket on the airplane :) Then not counting the real expenses (: 08:18:43 I'm pretty sure my comp investment - current - is still about 3x cooking; 4x reloading - more on a par with the firearms in toto ;-) 08:21:08 * schme invested in a nice quad core for faster backgammon analysis. 08:51:39 schme: I'm about to get a fast motherboard too, so that I can play back avchd video files without dropping frames. 08:51:48 schme: What did you get? 09:13:34 --- join: alex4nder (n=user@dsl093-145-168.sba1.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #forth 09:13:39 re.. 09:23:47 --- quit: moonpatrol (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 09:32:45 --- join: moonpatrol (n=Josh@216-24-110-2.access.naxs.com) joined #forth 09:34:32 --- part: moonpatrol left #forth 09:57:23 --- quit: elspru (Remote closed the connection) 10:13:16 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 12:04:17 --- quit: xjrn (Nick collision from services.) 12:04:19 --- quit: gogonkt (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 12:04:40 --- join: xjrn (n=jim@astound-69-42-10-25.ca.astound.net) joined #forth 12:07:23 --- join: gogonkt (n=info@116.5.83.32) joined #forth 13:01:36 --- quit: alex4nder (Remote closed the connection) 21:44:43 --- join: Quartus` (n=Quartus`@74.198.8.99) joined #forth 22:43:55 --- quit: xjrn (Nick collision from services.) 22:44:16 --- join: xjrn (n=jim@astound-69-42-10-25.ca.astound.net) joined #forth 22:46:13 * madgarden is away: aseepin' 23:00:00 --- quit: |dinya_| (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23:03:02 --- join: dinya_ (n=Denis@94.51.195.51) joined #forth 23:26:05 --- quit: xjrn (Remote closed the connection) 23:26:56 --- join: xjrn (n=jim@astound-69-42-10-25.ca.astound.net) joined #forth 23:43:01 --- quit: xjrn (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/09.12.13