00:00:00 --- log: started forth/09.12.10 00:03:49 later 00:14:15 --- join: madwork_ (n=madgarde@204.138.110.15) joined #forth 00:18:39 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 00:20:20 --- quit: TreyB ("leaving") 00:20:23 --- join: TreyB (n=trey@adsl-76-254-113-201.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 00:30:11 --- quit: DrunkTomato () 00:32:26 --- quit: madwork (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:33:18 --- quit: ASau (Remote closed the connection) 00:33:25 --- join: Judofyr (n=Judofyr@cC694BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no) joined #forth 00:33:49 --- join: ASau (n=user@83.69.227.32) joined #forth 01:22:08 --- join: noelhenson (n=noel@75-106-241-179.cust.wildblue.net) joined #forth 01:31:26 --- nick: madwork_ -> madwork 01:39:44 --- quit: gogonkt (Remote closed the connection) 01:40:03 --- join: gogonkt (n=info@59.38.200.98) joined #forth 01:49:19 --- join: tathi (n=josh@dsl-216-227-91-166.fairpoint.net) joined #forth 02:01:08 segher: you on? 02:01:24 hi noelhenson 02:01:51 como te va 02:02:16 freezing my butt off.. Sucking down coffee.. watching stupid movies and flogging my notes 02:02:48 LOL. Yeah, it's a nice balmy 10F outside. Much warmer than the -1F from yesterday. 02:03:20 yeah 10 here, -6 after windchill 02:03:53 Not much breeze at all here, so windchill is just 8F 02:04:15 Where are you located, poppavic? 02:04:20 oh, we've had the hellish winds for a few days now. I've been awaiting a pintree to snap 02:04:27 outside A2 in MI 02:04:49 Ah. I'm out in the wilderness on the side of a mountain in eastern WA 02:05:04 So far out that the only internet I can is via sattelite 02:05:10 hah! That's where I plan to move.. Back to WA.. 02:05:22 --- join: mathrick (n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk) joined #forth 02:05:40 I saw only desert on the east, though - prolly back the other side of the mountains 02:09:30 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jasonwoo@fsf/member/herkamire) joined #forth 02:09:30 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 02:10:23 http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=48.17104340,-117.78282166&sll=37.062527,-95.677067&sspn=0.001451,0.00239&ie=UTF8&ll=48.160063,-117.823579&spn=0.002516,0.00478&t=h&z=18 02:11:10 It's a high desert but with pine and other trees. Very dry here. So cold a few days ago you could hear the pine tree branches bursting. 02:11:20 yah. 02:18:06 See, there are some mountains and trees. 02:18:26 Sure. 02:18:45 That's my biggy.. Water, Trees, and I liked seeing the mountains and the weather from them 02:19:21 Michigan lacks a nice mountain, and the rest would be solved with a nice, selective plague. 02:19:28 Me, too. Fortunately I can do my work way out here. 02:19:54 yeah, I looked at hughes-net, but it seemed pricey for poor performance 02:21:26 I had Starband (now Hughes-net) it was not much fun at all. I have WildBlue now. It is much better. But it still has the downside of high latency and low total bandwidth limits. 02:22:04 --- join: Maki (n=Maki@dynamic-109-121-73-52.adsl.eunet.rs) joined #forth 02:22:21 ahh - same hw, diff provider? 02:24:04 Different hardware. It uses circular polarization and a higher frequency. Real bandwidth during the day is about 1-1.2 Mbps. Late at night I've gotten up to 4 Mbps. But the total monthly cap is a lowly 17GB. 02:24:25 oh, sheesh - caps as well? *sigh* 02:24:41 I just got used to low-end DSL, why pay more for less? 02:25:24 And since the latency is high, about 700ms (damn satellites so far out in space and/or low speed of light) game playing is out of the question. 02:25:25 noelhenson: i'm here 02:25:55 We're too far out for DSL. We're something like 20,000 feet from the nearest digital switch. 02:26:28 yeah, I had that issue for over a decade. 02:26:34 segher: I'm going to put my old strings package up on my website for anyone to use or beat the hell out of. ;) 02:27:21 nice 02:28:25 speed of light only account for about 240ms of latency to a geostationary satellite fwiw 02:28:40 segher: we can discuss the implementation then and even enhance or add to the words for what people need today. (I've always thought counted strings were better and more secure than null-terminated strings). 02:28:55 sure 02:29:18 i need to null-terminate the strings when i pass them to C, but that is easy 02:29:45 segher: actually it's out to the satellite and back twice so the latency is double that. 02:30:03 no, this _is_ twice already -- one-way travel is 120ms 02:31:08 pingreq -> satellite -> internet -> remote hose -> pingresponse -> satellite -> PC. 02:31:17 what happen to the url? 02:31:20 *host. 02:31:29 oh, VC roundtrip, sure 02:31:40 ping reports _half_ of that time though 02:32:38 it's all the routers and encoders that cause the majority of your latency 02:32:38 ok. 02:35:49 I understand. But if I ping the router at wildblue's facility which is the electrically closest machine to me, I get ping times in the 700+mS range. So even if I don't understand all the details, that's the lowest ping time I can get. If I ping www.google.com or www.noels-lab.com I get ping times in 1400-1600mS range. 02:36:26 oh, ok 02:38:27 wow 02:38:48 i get 30ms to paris, 100ms to boston, 200ms to california 02:38:53 i'm in the netherlands fwiw 02:39:22 Cool. I've never been there but it's on the list. 03:11:48 --- join: kar8nga (n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 03:25:24 --- join: alex4nder (n=user@wsip-72-215-164-129.sb.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 03:25:28 hey 03:44:13 hmm.. 03:44:32 I can think of a silly project, and I can't summon the will to bother ;-) 03:47:29 PoppaVic: ??? 03:47:43 I was thinking this morning that I'd like a Forth IMAP client. 03:48:17 oh, I was just thinking about "interpreting" all the files and words that are .fs, to get a concordance or a wordcount/use 03:54:55 --- join: Maki_ (n=Maki@dynamic-109-121-73-52.adsl.eunet.rs) joined #forth 04:11:32 --- quit: Maki (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 04:13:49 --- quit: Maki_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 04:19:50 --- join: TR2N- (i=email@89.180.135.176) joined #forth 04:21:38 --- quit: TR2N (Nick collision from services.) 04:21:41 --- nick: TR2N- -> TR2N 04:33:54 --- join: Maki (n=Maki@dynamic-109-121-73-52.adsl.eunet.rs) joined #forth 04:50:10 I think I'm just going to buy MPE's cross compiler for ARM 04:54:28 --- join: Al2O3_ (n=Al2O3@c-75-70-11-191.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 04:57:38 --- quit: Snoopy_1611 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:03:02 --- quit: Al2O3 (Connection timed out) 05:03:03 --- nick: Al2O3_ -> Al2O3 05:15:47 --- quit: kar8nga (Remote closed the connection) 05:23:57 alex4nder: money well spent :) 05:24:20 --- join: dandersen (n=dkcl@metabug/dandersen) joined #forth 05:26:25 am I reading this right.. vfx forth on linux having jack interfacing? :O 05:35:28 --- quit: dandersen ("leaving") 05:38:06 --- quit: Al2O3 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:39:36 Maki: it seems like it; I think I can get most of what I want with just a stamp license. 05:40:30 limitation is 120k as you probably know 05:40:35 yah 05:40:42 --- quit: ASau (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:40:59 I doubt I'll even get close to that. 05:41:12 which processor? 05:41:17 LPC? 05:41:33 at91sam7a3 05:42:04 ask Stephes for some porting advices 05:42:10 *Stephen 05:42:18 yah, I sent him a mail a little while ago. 05:42:55 I understand the chip pretty well, so if it's a pretty straight forward set of definitions, I should be ok. 05:43:00 support not included but he is ok 05:43:10 do you use his tools? 05:43:23 yes on lpc2136 05:43:34 how is the JTAG Widget? 05:43:54 not using JTAG. Serial bootloader. 05:43:59 ah, ok. 05:44:19 I have a couple segger j-links, but MPE's widget looks like a better setup. 05:44:27 they have ROM Forth that they use from AIDE 05:44:36 --- join: ASau (n=user@83.69.227.32) joined #forth 05:44:51 you need jtag or serial boot only the firs time 05:46:29 Any project in mind? 05:50:17 yah, I'm building a product 05:50:37 I was just going to do the board's forth myself, but the VFX Compiler looks like it's really good. 05:58:28 atmel part is similar to lpc2136... 05:58:40 +usb 05:59:04 yah 06:29:47 --- quit: alex4nder (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:36:29 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@c-75-70-11-191.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 06:43:25 --- quit: qFox ("Time for cookies!") 07:10:46 --- quit: GeDaMo ("Leaving.") 07:28:14 --- quit: Maki ("Leaving") 07:48:13 --- nick: noelhenson -> noel 07:48:43 --- nick: noel -> Guest31553 07:53:19 --- nick: Guest31553 -> noelhenson 08:21:17 --- join: alex4nder (n=user@dsl093-145-168.sba1.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #forth 08:21:21 hey 08:21:31 hi 08:21:56 do you follow comp.lang.forth? 08:23:20 tathi: be that way! ;-) 08:23:36 What's with it? 08:24:13 I was just wondering if alex4nder saw Anton's response to my post there about the unix/sockets.fs issue. 08:24:24 Ah. 08:24:53 alex4nder: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/viewcvs/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/gforth/unix/socket.fs?view=markup 08:24:58 cool.. loading 08:25:02 maybe you could check that it works for you? 08:26:18 I should check the forum again.. ANything new in the last few weeks worth the time? 08:26:36 Not really... 08:26:42 ok 08:27:18 Sometimes there are some nice insights. Other times, it sounds like a semi-RT Forth-Dimensions argument over guts. 08:27:41 "RT" as in?.. 08:27:54 realtime 08:28:01 Ah. 08:28:08 FD was every-other-month - and rarely worth the expense 08:28:22 Yes, most of traffic there is about dynamic scoping again. 08:28:30 tathi: yah, I did see it. I haven't tested anything yet. 08:28:30 oy. 08:28:52 This is dull. 08:29:03 It proves again that Forth lags 20 years behind. 08:29:09 25 years. 08:29:24 tathi: I ended up just not using most of that code; I don't get how most of that API ends up being useful. 08:29:32 Even Fortran is saner. 08:29:37 tathi: which was especially funny, when anton said that he doesn't use it. 08:29:41 alex4nder: yeah, that was the impression I had when I looked at it. 08:29:47 I don't know who contributed it. 08:29:58 It looked like someones pocket-sockets imp 08:30:15 tathi, alex4nder: I forked it and am happy. 08:30:22 yah. 08:30:27 tathi: I was thinking this morning about writing an IMAP client in Forth. 08:30:39 Brave man. 08:30:41 since I do email inside mail.app and emacs, and most of the time I'm just reading. 08:30:45 IMAP isn't easy protocol. 08:30:49 I was looking it over the other day vs the header - and kept asking myself "how the hell wrote this crippled bugger?" ;-) 08:31:02 ASau: Yah,.. I've implemented it in C, on the server and client. 08:57:12 --- join: Zarutian (n=zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 09:43:34 --- quit: alex4nder (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 10:07:24 --- join: I440r (n=me@c-69-136-171-118.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 11:10:26 --- quit: JasonWoof ("Leaving.") 11:36:50 --- nick: noelhenson -> noelhenson_away 11:37:20 --- nick: noelhenson_away -> noelhenson 11:56:27 --- quit: KipIngram ("WeeChat 0.2.6") 12:34:47 --- join: alex4nder (n=user@dsl093-145-168.sba1.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #forth 12:34:48 hey 13:04:48 what's going on when i evaluate 2 + ? + just silently notices a stack underflow and leaves the stack empty? 13:05:16 see ? 13:05:16 : ? 13:05:16 @ . ; ok 13:05:33 oh, i'm sorry, '2 +' 13:05:45 nottwo: the forth checks the stack when it comes back from the interpreter 13:05:47 ah, well - yes.. it wants 2 items, you've one. 13:06:02 some forths scream and die, others do a diagnostic, etc 13:06:26 i was just playing with dc(1), and it gives me an error with 2 + 13:06:43 ahh 13:06:45 and i was surprised that forth just let it slide. 13:06:53 didn'tt know if there was something else going on 13:07:15 nottwo: 13:07:16 2 + 13:07:16 :42: Address alignment exception 13:07:16 2 >>>+<<< 13:07:16 Backtrace: 13:07:53 ah, gforth & pfe give me: 2 + ok 13:08:11 well, gforth version? 13:08:15 gforth on my system does what poppavic just pasted 13:08:24 0.6.2 13:09:20 nottwo: I remmend 0.7.0 - much nicer than my last version 0.5.0 13:09:36 reCOmmend 13:10:44 i guess i need to upgrade this ubuntu. i'm still on jaunty 14:21:38 --- quit: alex4nder (Remote closed the connection) 14:22:32 --- join: DrunkTomato (n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru) joined #forth 14:44:45 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:50:17 --- join: ASau` (n=user@83.69.227.32) joined #forth 14:50:17 --- quit: ASau (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:32:36 --- join: qFox (n=C00K13S@5356B263.cable.casema.nl) joined #forth 15:43:09 OK. I have put my old Forth strings library up. I did modify it a bit so that it would work with a modern Forth, specifically GFORTH. You can find it here: http://www.noels-lab.com. 15:46:23 --- quit: DrunkTomato (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:03:08 --- log: started forth/09.12.10 18:03:08 --- join: clog (n=nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 18:03:08 --- topic: 'The Forth programming language, etc. | Logged by clog | forth.pastebin.ca | quartus.net/search | gforth: tinyurl.com/s8uho | isforth.com | ANS Standard: tinyurl.com/nx7dx | Wiki: forthfreak.net' 18:03:08 --- topic: set by tathi on [Mon Nov 30 04:40:25 2009] 18:03:08 --- names: list (clog noelhenson nighty_ qFox ASau` Zarutian Al2O3 TR2N mathrick tathi gogonkt Judofyr TreyB madwork PoppaVic Quartus` dinya_ sifbot tarbo schme scj gnomon yiyus maht madgarden zbrown foxes aguaithegeek nottwo uiu cataska nighty^ probonono @crc malyn) 19:03:22 --- quit: PoppaVic (Client Quit) 19:06:28 --- part: TR2N left #forth 19:28:24 --- join: segher (n=segher@84-105-60-153.cable.quicknet.nl) joined #forth 19:43:12 --- join: |dinya_| (n=Denis@188.18.71.116) joined #forth 19:43:48 --- quit: dinya_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 20:00:43 --- quit: |dinya_| (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:26:20 --- join: DrunkTomato (n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru) joined #forth 20:36:48 --- join: dinya_ (n=Denis@188.18.71.116) joined #forth 20:41:39 --- join: xjrn (n=jim@astound-69-42-10-25.ca.astound.net) joined #forth 20:47:42 --- quit: segher (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:52:56 --- join: segher (n=segher@84-105-60-153.cable.quicknet.nl) joined #forth 21:00:01 --- join: ASau (n=user@77.246.231.50) joined #forth 21:00:10 Funky shit! 21:00:34 marker tested ( some code here ) ' tested . tested ' tested . 21:00:40 results in the output: 21:00:52 673034960 673034960 21:00:59 create tested 21:00:59 DOES> @ marker! ; 21:01:15 Marker doesn't revert the dictionary! 21:01:33 I LOVE Forth. 21:04:17 which system is this? 21:04:25 you tick tested after running it. that's not valid code 21:04:37 "not standard", anyway 21:04:59 tathi: current gforth 21:05:04 it's surprising it is found of course :-) 21:05:37 tathi: I mentioned these problems on clf. 21:05:52 Though I thought they relate to FFI. 21:06:11 "related", damn english. 21:07:26 My main sources of problems with forth are recently 21:07:32 FFI and MARKER 21:08:01 And they tell me that Forth scales well after that. 21:08:08 Ha! 21:09:11 Huh. Seems to work properly here. I'll have to try building the latest. 21:09:13 How can it scale, if I have to run tests in separate 21:09:14 processes just because Forth cannot clean up as described by standard? 21:09:29 tathi: how many markers do you create? 21:09:55 I just tested with the one... 21:09:56 Remember that previous problem occurred after ca. 50-60 markers. 21:10:00 Ah. 21:10:34 This one happens after ca. 80-100 maybe more. 21:12:33 It may be that something slowly rots and brings system down. 21:12:55 Previously that was marker. 21:19:34 --- join: KipIngram (n=kip@173-11-138-177-houston.txt.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 21:42:33 Another annoying thing is this: 21:42:35 gforth: lt_dlexit failed$ 21:43:02 Someone(TM) assured me that it doesn't use libltdl in my case. 21:43:53 Now I have to look what their marker does, 21:44:23 and how they make the library I don't use fail. 21:55:28 --- quit: qFox ("Time for cookies!") 21:57:19 --- join: qFox (n=C00K13S@5356B263.cable.casema.nl) joined #forth 22:28:01 join #ubuntu 22:28:05 ooops 22:28:07 :-) 22:31:58 pkill ubuntu 22:33:35 Nah - works well for me. pkill windows 22:35:45 Actually I'm considering restoring my netbook's original Windows install. I'd actually like to boot Ubuntu to RAM from a memory card, and then use Truecrypt to mount a persistent /home/kip folder. 22:36:14 I tinkered with that a bit last night, but it looks like I'm going to need an external DVD drive in order to use the restore DVD. 22:36:25 I tried transferring that image to a memory card, but to no avail. 23:25:15 --- quit: Quartus` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:51:24 * madgarden is back (gone 07:38:14) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/09.12.10