00:00:00 --- log: started forth/09.12.08 00:31:37 --- join: nottwo (n=trannie@designvox-gw.iserv.net) joined #forth 00:55:26 --- join: tathi (n=josh@dsl-216-227-91-166.fairpoint.net) joined #forth 00:56:17 --- join: TR2N` (i=email@89-180-159-159.net.novis.pt) joined #forth 00:57:31 --- quit: PoppaVic (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:57:32 --- quit: gogonkt (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:57:32 --- quit: TR2N (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:03:43 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pops@adsl-99-150-133-146.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 01:03:43 --- join: gogonkt (n=info@116.5.83.92) joined #forth 01:03:43 --- join: TR2N (i=email@89-180-159-159.net.novis.pt) joined #forth 01:06:06 --- join: schmx (n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme) joined #forth 01:07:04 --- quit: I440r (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:07:04 --- quit: mathrick (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:07:04 --- quit: Quartus` (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:07:04 --- quit: Al2O3 (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:07:05 --- quit: schme (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:07:05 --- quit: PoppaVic (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:07:05 --- quit: TR2N (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:07:05 --- quit: gogonkt (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:07:10 --- join: PoppaVic_ (n=pops@adsl-99-150-133-146.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 01:07:43 --- join: I440r (n=me@c-69-136-171-118.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 01:07:43 --- join: mathrick (n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk) joined #forth 01:07:43 --- join: Quartus` (n=Quartus`@74.198.8.57) joined #forth 01:07:43 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@c-71-196-185-65.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 01:09:05 --- join: gogonkt (n=info@116.5.83.92) joined #forth 01:09:05 --- join: TR2N (i=email@89-180-159-159.net.novis.pt) joined #forth 01:13:45 --- quit: TR2N (Connection timed out) 01:15:42 --- quit: gogonkt (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:16:55 --- quit: Quartus` (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:16:55 --- quit: I440r (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:16:55 --- quit: mathrick (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:16:55 --- quit: Al2O3 (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:17:22 --- join: I440r (n=me@c-69-136-171-118.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 01:17:22 --- join: mathrick (n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk) joined #forth 01:17:22 --- join: Quartus` (n=Quartus`@74.198.8.57) joined #forth 01:17:22 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@c-71-196-185-65.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 01:17:29 --- quit: kar8nga (Remote closed the connection) 01:18:41 --- nick: TR2N` -> TR2N 01:20:43 --- join: gogonkt (n=info@116.5.83.92) joined #forth 01:24:57 --- quit: gogonkt (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:30:42 --- join: gogonkt (n=info@116.5.83.92) joined #forth 01:34:59 --- join: _mathrick (n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk) joined #forth 01:36:07 --- quit: mathrick (Nick collision from services.) 01:36:14 --- nick: _mathrick -> mathrick 01:37:55 --- quit: Quartus` (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:37:55 --- quit: I440r (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:37:55 --- quit: Al2O3 (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:38:44 --- join: I440r (n=me@c-69-136-171-118.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 01:38:44 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@c-71-196-185-65.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 01:47:01 --- join: kar8nga (n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 01:47:01 --- join: |dinya_| (n=Denis@188.17.79.224) joined #forth 01:47:07 --- quit: dinya_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:55:14 --- quit: mathrick (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:55:14 --- quit: schmx (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:55:15 --- quit: nottwo (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:55:15 --- quit: tarbo (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:55:16 --- quit: foxes (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:55:16 --- quit: ASau` (verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:55:26 --- join: ASau`` (n=user@83.69.227.32) joined #forth 01:56:04 --- join: tarbo (n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 01:56:08 --- join: nottwo (n=trannie@designvox-gw.iserv.net) joined #forth 02:04:01 --- join: Quartus` (n=Quartus`@74.198.8.60) joined #forth 02:12:06 --- join: qFox (n=C00K13S@5356B263.cable.casema.nl) joined #forth 02:30:21 --- join: mathrick (n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk) joined #forth 02:30:21 --- join: schmx (n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme) joined #forth 02:30:21 --- join: foxes (i=flash@221.220.46.126) joined #forth 02:39:17 --- join: GeDaMo (n=gedamo@dyn-62-56-89-110.dslaccess.co.uk) joined #forth 03:05:47 --- quit: kar8nga (Remote closed the connection) 03:08:06 --- quit: scj (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:25:43 i can haz forth? 03:36:25 madwork: no 03:36:58 :( 03:37:07 Why you want it!? 03:37:27 my third broke, and I'm too poor for fifth 03:38:18 ooh! 03:38:26 is ok. you can make a fifth using forth 03:40:11 Can I have a forth of fifth? It might be cheaper. 03:40:59 --- quit: Quartus` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:43:20 no 03:44:22 Nuts 03:46:16 but forth is free 03:50:02 --- nick: PoppaVic_ -> PoppaVic 03:54:20 TANSTAAFL 03:55:41 not always :) 03:56:20 "free" 03:56:45 That's OK, I quite enjoy DIY :) 03:57:04 --- join: alex4nder (n=user@wsip-72-215-164-129.sb.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 03:57:05 hey 03:59:37 Anyone got gforth 0.7.0 installed on a 32-bit linux machine, and can test something simple for me? 04:00:09 linux is evil ;-) 04:00:35 unix/socket.fs ms@ doesn't work on my laptop, but works fine on my (64-bit) Linux servers. 04:01:37 see ms@ 04:01:37 *the terminal*:1: Undefined word 04:03:22 require unix/socket.fs 04:04:06 hmm.. well, my pathing is snarfled - oh, well 04:04:20 thanks anyway 04:04:39 np.. osX prolly makes you scream anyway ;-) 04:05:15 I've got OS X on this box too, and the MacPro on my desk. :D 04:05:42 I really need to do a ground-zero install. But I'm too lazy and paranoid. 04:06:00 I'm just hacking this on Linux right now, trying to mess with sockets under gforth, but my first attempt to read-socket has been a failure. 04:06:47 I've not even bothered to try them, let alone check the stupid info-file for docs on it 04:11:51 alex4nder: any good test you propose for this ms@ ? 04:15:34 alex4nder: I can't seem to figure out how to use it and all I get is floating-poind divide by zero 04:16:48 oh loonix machine. sorry. trying it on netbsd :S 04:17:50 schmx: that's all I get too. 04:18:22 : ms@ utime 1000 um/mod nip ; 04:18:42 oh, millisec 04:18:50 alex4nder: yeah.. and that um/mod is some asm I can't be bothered with... but it does seem to work on my x86-64 linux here too. 04:18:52 : ms@ utime 1000 um/mod nip ; ( -- u ) <- here's the actual definition in unix/socket.fs 04:19:02 yeah. 04:19:02 schmx: ah, thanks for testing. 04:19:09 but x86-32 netbsd is just.. yeah that thing :) 04:22:24 oh well. :D 04:24:44 : hello-world ( port -- ) create-server dup 1 listen begin dup accept-socket >r s" Hello, world!" +cr r@ write-socket r> close-socket again drop ; 04:25:00 anyway, that's hello world. 04:27:34 hmm.. I need to look at dem gforth socket thingeries. 04:32:25 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:33:31 --- join: Al2O3_ (n=Al2O3@c-75-70-11-191.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 04:35:47 --- join: I440r (n=me@c-69-136-171-118.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 04:36:15 --- join: Quartus` (n=Quartus`@74.198.8.60) joined #forth 04:49:00 --- quit: Al2O3 (Success) 04:49:00 --- nick: Al2O3_ -> Al2O3 05:10:20 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:10:54 --- join: I440r (n=me@c-69-136-171-118.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 05:19:50 --- quit: Al2O3 () 05:32:44 --- log: started forth/09.12.08 05:32:44 --- join: clog (n=nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 05:32:44 --- topic: 'The Forth programming language, etc. | Logged by clog | forth.pastebin.ca | quartus.net/search | gforth: tinyurl.com/s8uho | isforth.com | ANS Standard: tinyurl.com/nx7dx | Wiki: forthfreak.net' 05:32:44 --- topic: set by tathi on [Mon Nov 30 04:40:25 2009] 05:32:44 --- names: list (clog I440r Quartus` alex4nder GeDaMo foxes schmx mathrick qFox nottwo tarbo ASau`` |dinya_| gogonkt PoppaVic TR2N tathi madwork KipIngram madgarden nighty_ TreyB Snoopy_1611 aguaithegeek uiu zbrown cataska hiredman maht yiyus gnomon nighty^ probonono @crc malyn) 05:44:45 --- quit: GeDaMo (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:44:46 --- quit: foxes (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:44:46 --- quit: mathrick (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:44:46 --- quit: schmx (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:45:25 --- join: GeDaMo (n=gedamo@dyn-62-56-89-110.dslaccess.co.uk) joined #forth 05:45:25 --- join: mathrick (n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk) joined #forth 05:45:25 --- join: schmx (n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme) joined #forth 05:45:25 --- join: foxes (i=flash@221.220.46.126) joined #forth 05:47:00 --- quit: GeDaMo ("Leaving.") 05:51:23 --- join: sleepydog (n=david@136.244.235.163) joined #forth 05:55:54 --- quit: aguaithegeek (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 05:59:08 the mixing and match of FD and FILE *s in socket.fs is the opposite of awesome. 05:59:49 amen 06:03:40 --- join: aguaithegeek (n=aguai@98.142.211.123) joined #forth 06:17:29 Huh. Looks like um/mod is buggy. 06:18:55 where? 06:18:58 in what way? 06:20:01 I'm just following the conversation from two-three hours ago 06:20:40 gforth-0.7.0 -- gives a divide-by-zero error for large dividends, it looks like. 06:20:58 aha 06:20:58 Er...or maybe it's not actually a bug. 06:21:17 divide by close to zero ? 06:21:18 lol 06:21:31 Always a Feature! 06:22:25 No, if the quotient doesn't fit in a cell, I think. 06:22:34 Yeah, looks like that's it. 06:22:56 erm thas a bug then 06:23:08 Why is that a bug? 06:23:26 if it can express X and express Y in whatever and has a function to divide X by Y then any case where the result of that wont fit in the space allocated for it 06:23:28 then its a bug 06:23:53 Do you have any idea what you're talking about? 06:24:02 er, what I'm talking about? 06:24:16 you just said that any time the quotient part of the result wont fit in a cell it craps out 06:24:25 or else i misunderstood you 06:24:41 Right. So there's no "right" answer. 06:24:54 So I don't see that throwing an error is any worse than returning some bogus value. 06:25:02 the right answer is more than one cell in length lol 06:25:06 Though "divide-by-zero" isn't helpful. 06:25:49 Yes, but the return value is only one cell. 06:26:14 so the result can fit in more than one cell but the function will only ever return one cell 06:26:17 um/mod ( ud u1 -- rem quot ) 06:26:19 erm. tahs a bug to me 06:26:34 UD 1 um/mod 06:26:39 divide taht dobuel by ONE 06:26:43 the result is that double 06:26:48 oh dear that doesnt fit in one cell 06:26:58 erm. i think i shud stfu and test isforth now lol 06:27:05 So what would you propose doing instead? 06:27:22 m/mod ? 06:29:01 Sorry, how does that help? 06:29:12 erm might not be m/mod 06:29:24 theres a divide that returns a doubel and a single 06:29:32 a double and a single even 06:29:35 Ah. Yeah, you could do that. 06:30:28 But two singles is the basic operation that many processors provide, I think. 06:30:34 in wihch case its still a bug but not in gforth :) 06:30:57 And AFAIK it's the usual unit that you build multiple-precision arithmetic with. 06:31:01 --- quit: qFox ("Time for cookies!") 06:32:02 i think this is something that needs to be address because 06:32:16 UD 1 um/mod is a perfectly valid operation to request 06:33:04 Well, sure. I have nothing against providing a word that returns a double quotient. 06:33:06 so i think the way um/mod behaves is wrong. if there are any dobules in the divides expected parameters it must cater to a potential double in the result 06:33:11 A good Forth system should probably have it. 06:33:44 But um/mod is the more primitive operation, and in some cases you want it, and the other is (I think) substantially slower. 06:33:57 a double divided by a single can quite validy equate to a double 06:34:14 so for um/mod to expect a double and not be able to return one is just basically wrong 06:34:24 probably ya 06:34:37 mu/mod is what i was thinking of i think 06:35:39 mixed-precision issues? 06:35:41 yeah, I just found it. 06:36:14 im suspecting that word was created to fix this self same issue with um/mod 06:36:18 but i could be wrong 06:36:28 PoppaVic: yeah, that problem that alex4nder was having with gforth was a mixed-precision overflow bug 06:36:41 ah-so 06:37:14 I440r: you need a stack comment for mu/mod, I think? 06:37:23 1.22b doesn't have one... 06:38:06 PoppaVic: and now we're just debating pointless trivia. :) 06:38:41 it's not poibtless, I hear.. I try to follow - he's into his variant and x86, yer into the lot and I just watch and listen ;-) 06:41:08 are we pointing at a specific imp bug, or a bug induced by following Standards? 06:41:13 I don't actually disagree that much. I think the "safe-by-design" word should probably be the one advertised to newbies. But I'm pretty sure there are algorithms which want the primitive one, so it makes sense for it to exist too. 06:41:53 --- quit: foxes (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:41:54 --- quit: mathrick (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:41:54 --- quit: schmx (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:41:59 Aha. gforth calls it ud/mod. 06:43:06 tathi: Should I contact the gforth guys about this? I'm not even calling ms@ directly. 06:43:17 alex4nder: replacing `um/mod` with `ud/mod drop` in the definition of ms@ should fix it 06:43:25 I'm just trying to read some bytes. 06:43:28 ok. 06:43:31 hrm...I should probably have tested that before saying so. :) 06:43:34 haha 06:43:49 I ended up just gutting their version of read-socket, and using recv directly. 06:44:21 Yeah, works for me. 06:45:30 --- join: mathrick (n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk) joined #forth 06:45:30 --- join: schmx (n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme) joined #forth 06:45:30 --- join: foxes (i=flash@221.220.46.126) joined #forth 06:49:28 I'm not sure I follow their FFI at all. 06:54:06 the implementation, or the use? 06:54:45 tathi: I peeked at it once, the docs are unpleasant. I've had no further need to look. 06:54:50 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:59:27 PoppaVic: it uses the C compiler at runtime -- \c sends the rest of the line straight through to the C compiler. 06:59:40 oh, sheesh 07:00:04 I meant like making a call on libc.. Now I see what you mean. 07:00:10 c-function defines a name for a C function, it takes "forth-name" "c-name" "stack-effect" 07:02:50 --- join: I440r (n=me@c-69-136-171-118.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:02:54 It's pretty simple to use. 07:03:02 --- quit: I440r (Client Quit) 07:03:11 --- join: I440r (n=me@c-69-136-171-118.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:03:15 But underneath it's complex, of course. 07:03:25 Interesting set of tradeoffs. 07:03:38 alas for the dearth of dlopen-mentality ;-) 07:04:05 Oh, it still uses dlopen 07:04:48 It just uses the C compiler to translate from the C function call ABI to the Forth one, instead of trying to hard-code it for every possible platform. 07:06:27 So to port it you don't need to know about the ABI, but you do need to know the commands to build a shared library. 07:06:52 odd 07:07:55 It fits with gforth, since it's a C forth. 07:08:15 yes, but gforth itself already "knows" this. 07:08:19 And they want it to go wherever gcc does. 07:08:26 yes 07:12:34 afaik, nothing else uses vmgen, either. 07:24:18 Hrmm.. It helps when the stupid info files are updated and in the right place. *sigh* 07:26:54 Seems I was reading .5.0 docs after installing .7.0 07:27:21 which, was ok - since the indiot "install" left the gforth symlink to .5.0 as well *sigh* 07:30:25 --- join: alex4nde` (n=user@174-145-154-33.pools.spcsdns.net) joined #forth 07:30:25 larg 07:30:27 b 07:32:44 Lua uses vmgen 07:32:50 or it used tu 07:32:58 to 07:33:03 oh? Cool.. I'll ask bone if it still does 07:33:48 tathi: you rat, NOW I gotta' reread the info docs for the C FFI ;-) 07:34:16 why? I just told you how to use it. :-) 07:34:50 Er...maybe I'm imagining things about Lua 07:34:56 because I heard you, then I checked my docs, realized I had the right docs in the wrong place and had to copy over AND load up the new to start checking ;-) 07:35:24 I was under the impression that vmgen was pretty well a dead issue 07:35:47 (and I don't wanna' hear from the llmv camp today) 07:35:52 llvm, even 07:49:20 --- quit: alex4nder (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:49:52 --- nick: alex4nde` -> alex4nder 07:51:15 --- quit: alex4nder ("ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)") 08:26:55 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 08:43:47 --- quit: Snoopy_1611 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:44:30 --- join: Snoopy_1611 (i=Snoopy_1@dslb-088-068-206-113.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 10:58:27 --- quit: schmx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:34:52 --- join: proteusguy (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 12:28:57 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:29:44 --- join: proteusguy (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 12:39:26 --- join: schme (n=marcus@c83-249-82-26.bredband.comhem.se) joined #forth 12:41:56 --- join: segher (n=segher@84-105-60-153.cable.quicknet.nl) joined #forth 13:19:09 --- join: TR2N- (i=email@89-180-155-121.net.novis.pt) joined #forth 13:20:40 --- quit: TR2N (Nick collision from services.) 13:20:43 --- nick: TR2N- -> TR2N 14:50:50 --- quit: sleepydog ("leaving") 15:21:55 --- join: noelhenson (n=noel@75-106-241-179.cust.wildblue.net) joined #forth 15:28:14 --- quit: mathrick (Remote closed the connection) 15:28:28 --- join: mathrick (n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk) joined #forth 15:29:30 --- quit: mathrick (Remote closed the connection) 15:31:46 --- join: mathrick (n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk) joined #forth 15:34:09 --- join: ASau (n=user@host179-230-msk.microtest.ru) joined #forth 15:35:52 --- quit: I440r ("Leaving") 15:46:53 --- join: I440r (n=me@c-69-136-171-118.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 15:48:37 --- join: kar8nga (n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 15:57:25 --- join: alex4nder (n=user@dsl093-145-168.sba1.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #forth 15:57:27 evening. 15:58:31 lo 15:58:47 my gforth socket code is working even less under OS X 15:59:45 alex4nder: lovely. 16:10:32 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:10:50 yah.. the bind in create-server always fails. 16:11:38 try using their FFI stuff and bypass their .fs stuff? 16:13:51 --- join: proteusguy (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 16:23:56 yah,.. I'm rewriting create-server. 16:26:24 alex4nder: what was it doing "wrong"? It's supposed to be a distro-component, no? 16:27:32 PoppaVic: yah.. I refactored it because it was hard to test,.. and the call to bind is still failing. 16:27:42 huh 16:27:50 Sounds like it was a bad imp 16:35:08 looks like the call to 'socket' is busted on OS X 16:35:53 require unix/socket.fs PF_INET SOCK_STREAM IPPROTO_TCP socket 16:35:54 seems simple enough. 16:36:00 that returns an FD under Linux 16:36:29 under OS X, it only consumes the top two elements of the stack, and returns .. something else. 16:38:35 require /Users/pfv/dev/gforth-0.7.0/unix/socket.fs ok 16:38:35 pf_inet sock_stream ipproto_tcp .s <3> 2 1 6 ok 16:38:35 socket .s <1> 8 ok 16:41:42 what kind of machine/install? Is it a 64-bit build? 16:41:55 ahhh.. No. PPC powerbook ;-) 16:41:59 oh haha 16:42:04 yah. 16:42:57 I'd bet on the FFI being wrong.. n should be s or some such 16:43:19 yah, I'm looking at the generated C right now. 16:44:36 The stackframes, in C, get oddball for sizes/alignments. 16:46:21 the code looks reasonable at first glance. 16:49:44 I'm betting on a sizeof/alignment default being missed, then 16:56:10 sure enough.. a 64-bit issue. 16:56:12 --- join: proteusguy_ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 16:56:15 hah! 16:56:23 so, what's yer alternative answer? 16:56:30 fixed by removing everything, and starting over. :D 16:56:35 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:56:39 the .so it was loading was stale. 16:56:44 .. and wrong. 16:56:46 ahhhh 16:56:59 the code looked fine, it had just previously compiled it with the wrong options. 16:57:02 elves..silly buggers ;-) 16:57:06 yah 16:57:43 seems like every 64-bit users issue - all the time 16:59:06 .. and now my socket layer code all works. 16:59:08 wicked. 16:59:20 coolio 16:59:33 I presume it rebuilt the whole gforth lib? 16:59:39 yah. 16:59:53 well all of the created socket.so 17:00:38 don't feel bad though - I discovered I was still running a gforth symlink to the OLD gforth, (stupid installer), and it never installed the info where it could be read, either. 17:00:58 No wonder I was getting "gruntled" ;-) 17:01:18 yah. 17:01:46 still, my little fluffies run, it was just not the version I thought I was running - or reading about ;-) 17:08:12 alex4nder: so, yer client and server are working now? 17:08:45 yah.. I needed to simulate a UART and a CAN controller, so I'm providing it by sockets. 17:09:00 ok 17:09:16 usocks were prolly a better choice 17:09:54 usocks? 17:10:13 unix sockets 17:10:29 oh, as far as my code goes, it's the same. 17:10:37 ok 17:10:54 I was just checking their .fs - I don't even see it 17:12:49 I'm using recv/send everywhere, so it'd just be a matter of swapping out file descriptors. 17:13:17 ugh ok 17:13:18 what's really funny with socket.fs is.. when you call accept-socket, it returns a FILE * 17:13:35 ok, thats odd 17:13:44 but all the commonly used read/write/close calls convert that FILE * back to an FD 17:13:55 silly 17:14:46 yah,. I wonder who wrote this... 17:15:25 I like FILE*, I like fd's - I don't much like read/write, but it beats send/recv 17:15:47 Pardon the lurking. But simulating a UART and CAN controller? Nice. 17:16:13 --- quit: kar8nga (Remote closed the connection) 17:16:14 I dunno CAN, but playing with hw is the forth-forte' ;-) 17:16:51 I know. I've been using forth for bringing up new hardware since the mid-80's 17:16:52 noelhenson: yah.. I need to test a bunch of embedded code, on my host, without having the final board. 17:17:29 so I'm thinking I'll test the scheduler, message decoding/encoding, and database, all in gforth. 17:17:43 nice 17:18:43 Cool. Forth excels at such stuff. 17:21:17 I'm using it now on a piece of medical equipment with multiple processors and I'm using it for several different motion control and robotics devices. 17:21:36 sweeeeet 17:24:31 have you guys used any of MPE's cross compilers? 17:24:43 no, sorry 17:25:11 I doodle with forth these days.. mostly C for fun.. I've always just coded for fun. 17:25:26 No. But I've used several of the SwiftX: 68K, 8051, ARM and soon the ColdFire. 17:25:30 well, except when I did the CNC frill, but that was unpaid. 17:25:38 noelhenson: how was the quality of the compilers? 17:26:14 I have compared the features. They are very similar. But I know the Forth folks and have been using their stuff for years. 17:26:39 nice 17:26:45 reaffirms my faith 17:27:03 PoppaVic: in? 17:27:13 I'm hesitant to buy a compiler suite,.. every time I've used something 'professional', I feel like I'm getting hosed. 17:27:31 it's bad when gcc feel like a better environment than what you paid thousands for. 17:27:34 noelhenson: folks are actually coding useful stuff and not all smoking the Java and Haskell, etc crack-pipes 17:27:40 alex4nder: the quality of the cross-compiler tools is excellent. 17:28:44 The quality of the generated code is, well, pretty awesome. It's compact and highly optimized. A full kernel complete with multitasking is only about 8.5KB on a ColdFire. 17:29:13 cool. 17:29:27 the last setup I had for ColdFire was CodeWarrior,.. and I wanted to burn the building down. 17:29:42 The code executes about 95% as fast as c-generated code. 17:29:46 cool. 17:30:43 nice 17:30:44 I'm using it in real-time control applications for several boards I've designed. 17:32:28 It's so nice to hear such things. 17:32:40 BTW, you can download evaluation version of SwiftX from Forth.com. 17:33:00 yeah, I've seen that 17:33:34 noelhenson: thanks. the reason I've been looking at MPE, is that they have Linux releases of their tools. 17:34:43 Now that is the one big problem with SwiftX. It's only Windows. It's actually the only reason I have a windows box on my bench; to run SwiftX. I use Linux for my desktop. 17:34:59 ahh, shoot. 17:35:40 But SwiftX will run in Wine. But some of the target interface tools that work over USB don't yet get along well with Wine. 17:35:47 yah. 17:36:20 I've gotten my JTAG gear working with VMWare with Windows,.. but it would kind of suck to have to do all of my development inside a virtualized environment with Windows. 17:36:21 sheesh, it'd be nice if they "fixed" that. 17:38:14 alex4nder: I use remote desktop to access the windows box that stores its source files on my Linux box (via samba). That way I can Vim my way through the source and have access to all my other *nix tools (like RCS and subversion) and still use SwiftX. (that was long winded) 17:38:28 cool. 17:39:24 They really can't fix it. SwiftX cross compilers are written in SwiftForth, which is a windows-only development tool. I've discussed it with Leon and Elizabeth before but they don't see a large enough market for it. 17:40:39 That's too bad. And there is apple, of course 17:40:56 osX would be nice ;-) 17:41:03 oh, well 17:41:33 I know. It would. But virtualization is the way of the future. Pretty soon it won't matter what OS or processor are being used. 17:41:43 damn, MPE's JTAG Reprogrammer runs forth, and is programmable. 17:41:54 heh 17:42:24 well, I'm not about to kowtow to the "virtualization" around me. 17:42:34 lol 17:42:59 jvm vs .net is not my idea of a win. 17:43:32 That's not quite the kind of virtualization I meant. I meant hardware virtualization. 17:43:41 ah 17:47:44 ok, I'm crashing out. 17:47:47 night 17:47:49 --- part: alex4nder left #forth 17:50:54 --- quit: proteusguy_ (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:50:54 --- quit: schme (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:50:54 --- quit: ASau`` (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:51:35 --- quit: PoppaVic (Client Quit) 17:59:34 --- quit: I440r (Client Quit) 18:03:24 --- join: proteusguy_ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 18:03:24 --- join: schme (n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme) joined #forth 18:03:24 --- join: ASau`` (n=user@83.69.227.32) joined #forth 18:06:13 --- quit: ASau`` (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:06:13 --- quit: schme (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:06:13 --- quit: proteusguy_ (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:19:09 --- quit: noelhenson ("Leaving") 18:21:03 --- join: proteusguy_ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 18:21:03 --- join: schme (n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme) joined #forth 18:21:03 --- join: ASau`` (n=user@83.69.227.32) joined #forth 18:24:13 --- join: I440r (n=me@c-69-136-171-118.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 18:34:26 --- quit: tarbo (Connection timed out) 18:47:21 --- quit: ASau`` (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:47:21 --- quit: schme (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:47:21 --- quit: proteusguy_ (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:50:31 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@c-75-70-11-191.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 18:58:22 --- join: proteusguy_ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 18:58:22 --- join: schme (n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme) joined #forth 18:58:22 --- join: ASau`` (n=user@83.69.227.32) joined #forth 19:11:47 --- quit: ASau`` (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 19:11:47 --- quit: schme (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 19:11:47 --- quit: proteusguy_ (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 19:20:58 --- join: _dinya__ (n=Denis@90.150.220.27) joined #forth 19:39:02 --- quit: |dinya_| (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:44:57 --- join: proteusguy_ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 19:44:57 --- join: schme (n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme) joined #forth 19:44:57 --- join: ASau`` (n=user@83.69.227.32) joined #forth 20:09:21 --- quit: zbrown (Remote closed the connection) 20:15:54 --- join: zbrown (n=suifur@rufius.xen.prgmr.com) joined #forth 20:24:18 --- quit: zbrown (Remote closed the connection) 20:36:39 --- join: zbrown (n=suifur@rufius.xen.prgmr.com) joined #forth 20:42:44 --- quit: zbrown (Remote closed the connection) 20:48:02 --- join: zbrown (n=suifur@rufius.xen.prgmr.com) joined #forth 21:07:55 --- quit: zbrown (Remote closed the connection) 21:13:16 --- join: zbrown (n=suifur@rufius.xen.prgmr.com) joined #forth 21:18:51 --- join: kar8nga (n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 21:52:07 --- join: tathi (n=josh@dsl-216-227-91-166.fairpoint.net) joined #forth 22:21:59 --- join: DrunkTomato (n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru) joined #forth 22:29:51 --- quit: mathrick (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:36:09 --- quit: proteusguy_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:36:51 --- join: proteusguy_ (n=proteusg@zeppelin.proteus-tech.com) joined #forth 22:42:46 --- join: mathrick (n=mathrick@dlink214.imada.sdu.dk) joined #forth 22:49:26 --- join: tarbo (n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo) joined #forth 23:03:29 Hola. 23:34:43 --- join: qFox (n=C00K13S@5356B263.cable.casema.nl) joined #forth 23:51:54 --- quit: ASau ("off") 23:53:55 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pops@adsl-99-150-133-146.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/09.12.08