00:00:00 --- log: started forth/09.11.10 00:00:51 --- join: cataska (n=cataska@210.64.6.233) joined #forth 00:36:58 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x708D5A0C) joined #forth 00:41:27 --- join: Snoopy_1711 (i=Snoopy_1@dslb-084-059-223-240.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 00:49:03 --- join: Quartus` (n=Quartus`@74.198.8.57) joined #forth 00:58:43 --- quit: Snoopy_1611 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:22:53 --- quit: DrunkTomato () 02:34:07 --- join: DrunkTomato (n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru) joined #forth 03:01:50 --- join: H4ns (n=Hans@p57BBABEA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 03:31:52 --- quit: H4ns ("Leaving.") 03:31:59 --- join: H4ns (n=Hans@p57BBABEA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 03:32:11 --- quit: H4ns (Remote closed the connection) 03:32:18 --- join: H4ns (n=Hans@p57BBABEA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 04:10:06 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 05:23:00 --- quit: gnomon (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 05:25:25 --- join: gnomon (n=gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 05:35:57 KipIngram: I dunno. I just wrote some gforth bindings for sdl using the ffi in gforth. That's what I used. 05:56:56 Ah - I Googled around based on what you told me and found this: http://jasonwoof.org/forth_code. The last link on the page (using xlib...) looks like it's close to what I want. 05:57:27 cools 05:57:36 xlib is a bit of a pain in the behind, but it is plenty usable 05:59:36 I assume you could go gtk or whatever. Depends on what you're aiming to do :) 06:14:30 --- quit: X-Scale (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 07:00:46 Hm. 07:01:01 Probably I can construct ELF from raw pieces by objdump(1). 07:01:10 objcopy(1) 07:06:26 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 07:16:38 Hey, does anyone have a strong opinion about gforth vs. bigForth? 07:19:37 Yes. 07:19:41 gforth is portable. 07:20:01 bigforth isn't yet ported even though Bernd claims so. 07:20:40 Ok. Portability isn't a huge concern for me, but point noted. 07:20:43 isn't bigforth some sort of pain in the arse with licensing? 07:20:44 Well. B.P. claims it should not be hard to port it, 07:20:52 but this is yet to be done. 07:21:13 I don't see problem. 07:21:15 My priority is the development of real apps that I will actually use on my own machine. 07:21:20 Same applies to gforth. 07:21:21 I guess now we just have to wait for "IT's BIG! SO IT CAN'T BE FORTH" 07:21:33 ASau: I dunno. I just seem to have some recall of reading something about it 07:21:46 KipIngram: Sounds like good priorities :) 07:22:07 Any GPL interpreter/compiler presents big problem due to licensing. 07:22:42 sounds plausible. 07:22:53 I don't plan to sell or distribute anything - I just want to build stuff for my own use. 07:22:53 I find GPL gets confusing when you leave the C world. 07:23:03 (: 07:23:25 KipIngram: then I don't see why you would have problems with the bigforth 07:24:40 I didn't say I would. :) 07:24:55 I have gforth installed on my system now, and I've downloaded bigForth source and deb. 07:26:01 It looks like bigForth offers more stuff "built in" (like graphics, etc.), but I thought I'd see if anyone said anything negative about it. 07:26:28 I guess I just thought I'd poll opinion as to whether I'd be giving up anything major by switching from gforth to bigForth. 07:27:00 Most of my Forth experience is at a much lower level, bringingup emedded systems and so forth. Diddling hardware. 07:27:34 But I really would like to use it instead of C as my primary programming language for day-to-day use. 07:27:49 Trying to make sure I choose the right path to start out on. 07:28:58 cools 07:35:44 --- join: GeDaMo (n=gedamo@212.225.108.57) joined #forth 07:37:21 One thing that might influence my decision is ncurses support - do either gforth or bigForth have good support for that "out of the box"? 07:37:43 not that I know of 07:43:22 I did a quick query on using ncurses. Looks like I'd have to compile it in and write an interface, but it looked fairly straightforward. At least for C, and I assume that both Forths use C as source? 07:43:58 parts of gforth is in C. 07:44:00 I thought about just using ANSI.SYS codes, but I have a feeling the performance would be low. 07:44:13 I'm not sure why you'd neet to compile it in. You could just FFI, no? 07:44:29 with libcurses or what it iscalled. 07:44:52 I'm convinced bigforth too has FFI. 07:44:56 Honestly I'm not that familiar with that; I assume it's a generalized library interface? Lets me call straight into object files? 07:45:00 Why do you want to use curses? 07:45:22 I use a lot of console applications that I run on my desktop but interface from my netbook via an ssh tunnel. 07:45:22 KipIngram: FFI - foreign function interface. pretty much is used for loading shared libraries, and calling functions in said library. 07:45:38 I'm chatting with you now using weechat-curses. Running at home, but I'm at work. 07:46:13 I use finch instead of pidgin for IM and run it the same way. 07:46:45 I use screen to run all of that stuff, so I can can disconnect my netbook, reconnect it later, and all of the sessions are still there. 07:46:46 well no need to 'compile it in'. 07:47:02 Yes, I see now. I'll learn more about ffi and it does look like that would do the trick. 07:47:19 cools. 07:47:41 And I much prefer not messing with the source code - I'd rather have "the standard package." 07:47:53 I'm not sure how gforth or bigforth handle sigwinch 07:50:16 I don't like how a lot of my console apps handle issues related to that. For instance, if I resize my terminal window (on my netbook) finch just completely tosses whatever window sizing I've set up. 07:50:30 Then when I maximize again I have to grow the windows back manually. 07:50:50 Well.. I guess you must fix finch. 07:50:50 So if issues like that popped up with g or big it wouldn't be new to me. 07:51:05 It's a coding issue. 07:51:12 I typically just run maximized; usually when I resize it's by accident. 07:51:22 the process gets sent sigwinch, then you do whatever with it. 07:51:27 My trash bin's right up there next to the minimize box. 07:51:45 and it seems you do not like what the finch devs have decided to do with it. 07:51:58 True, but I'll just live with it. 07:52:33 I use multiple workspaces on my netbook and give one of them over to the ssh tunnel console. 07:56:10 multipla workspacis 07:56:20 I dunno man. I just use ratpoison and ssh + screen 07:56:30 obj/test2: ELF 32-bit LSB relocatable, no machine, version 1 (SYSV), not stripped 07:56:30 obj/test: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, for NetBSD 5.99.21, not stripped 07:56:46 hmmm? 07:56:46 Proceded this far. 07:56:54 What evil things are you up to? 07:57:22 I want to deconstruct ELF file into raw sections and reconstruct it again. 07:57:28 And make it run. 07:57:50 I see. sounds.. enjoyable :) 07:57:55 I have a workspace where I run local console apps (screen running locally), a workspace with the ssh tunnel to screen running remotely, a workspace form Gwibber (my Twitter client), a workspace for Firefox (always with a number of tabs), and a workspace for "other stuff." 07:58:29 I've had things set up this way long enough now that I get around it all very fast. 07:58:39 A place for everything and everything in its place... 07:58:51 great. 07:59:04 I run the xmonad on my desktop. there I have those there workspaces. 07:59:29 But I dunno. I don't really need it. one window for conkeror, one for IRC, one for emac, one for xterm. 07:59:32 and all full screen. 07:59:47 so I just C-t n 08:01:07 obj/test: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, for NetBSD 5.99.21, not stripped 08:01:07 obj/test2: ELF 32-bit LSB relocatable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), not stripped 08:01:10 Hmmm... 08:01:22 Love emacs. I have my whole time management / personal information manager system built around emacs-wiki running on one of the local screens. 08:02:01 And another screen with emacs that I use for whatever gforth source I have open at the time. 08:03:29 --- join: foxchip (n=fox@32.177.207.171) joined #forth 08:04:49 Try ECL. 08:05:09 Lisp is usual next step for former Forth programmers. :) 08:05:44 hey mcclim is kinda nice for graphical things. 08:06:26 I'll never move to Lisp. I've loved Forth since college. 08:06:38 And trust me, that was a while ago. 08:08:07 Hey, where do I find documentation for the functions in libncurses? 08:09:42 man 3 curses 08:29:47 --- join: tathi (n=josh@dsl-216-227-91-166.fairpoint.net) joined #forth 08:41:00 --- quit: ASau ("off") 08:51:43 --- join: kar8nga (n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 08:57:53 --- quit: foxchip (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:04:15 --- join: Judofyr (n=Judofyr@ti0056a380-1170.bb.online.no) joined #forth 09:10:09 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x708D5A0C) joined #forth 09:29:15 --- quit: ygrek (sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:40:43 --- join: ASau (n=user@83.69.227.32) joined #forth 09:51:09 --- join: qFox (n=C00K13S@5356B263.cable.casema.nl) joined #forth 10:14:08 --- quit: TreyB (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 10:22:47 --- quit: DrunkTomato () 10:32:03 --- join: Raystm2 (i=rastm2@c-24-8-232-212.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 10:44:22 --- join: forther (i=62d2faca@gateway/web/freenode/x-wvwixnowydahdfin) joined #forth 10:44:56 hi all 10:46:03 Hi. 10:53:12 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x708D5A0C) joined #forth 10:57:39 --- quit: Judofyr (Remote closed the connection) 11:12:19 --- quit: kar8nga (Remote closed the connection) 11:20:08 --- join: Judofyr (n=Judofyr@ti0056a380-1170.bb.online.no) joined #forth 11:23:27 --- quit: forther ("Page closed") 11:41:30 --- nick: Snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy_1611 11:58:09 --- quit: Raystm2 ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 12:03:07 --- quit: gnomon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:20:42 --- join: Snoopy_1711 (i=Snoopy_1@dslb-084-059-223-240.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 12:25:40 --- quit: Snoopy_1611 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 13:22:59 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 13:34:53 --- quit: Judofyr (Remote closed the connection) 14:11:10 --- quit: qFox ("Time for cookies!") 15:01:07 --- join: TR2N (i=email@89.180.172.244) joined #forth 15:03:23 --- quit: malyn ("Disconnecting from stoned server.") 15:03:36 --- join: malyn (n=malyn@unaffiliated/malyn) joined #forth 15:05:30 --- quit: Quartus` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:32:41 --- quit: GeDaMo ("Leaving.") 15:43:40 --- nick: Snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy_1611 16:06:31 --- join: gogonkt_ (n=info@218.13.52.113) joined #forth 16:14:10 --- quit: gogonkt (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 16:32:36 --- quit: crc (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:35:52 --- join: crc (n=charlesc@c-68-80-139-0.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 16:35:53 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 16:43:28 --- join: gnomon_ (n=gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 16:44:35 --- quit: crc (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:50:33 --- join: crc (n=charlesc@c-68-80-139-0.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 16:50:33 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 18:01:43 --- join: nighty__ (n=nighty@210.188.173.245) joined #forth 18:07:06 --- nick: gogonkt_ -> gogonkt 18:47:12 --- nick: gnomon_ -> gnomon 19:20:01 --- join: Raiford_ (n=Raiford@234.157-62-69.ftth.swbr.surewest.net) joined #forth 19:21:01 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 19:33:43 --- join: H4ns1 (n=Hans@p57BBAE98.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 19:36:59 --- quit: Raiford (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:50:33 --- quit: H4ns (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:13:44 --- quit: ASau ("off") 22:38:50 --- quit: crc (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:38:51 --- join: crc_ (n=charlesc@c-68-80-139-0.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 22:38:51 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc_ 22:39:05 --- nick: crc_ -> crc 22:56:17 --- quit: malyn (Remote closed the connection) 22:56:21 --- join: malyn (n=malyn@unaffiliated/malyn) joined #forth 23:04:00 --- quit: crc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:14:07 --- quit: H4ns1 (sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 23:14:07 --- quit: foxes (sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 23:20:23 --- join: ASau (n=user@host116-231-msk.microtest.ru) joined #forth 23:29:03 --- join: kar8nga (n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/09.11.10