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ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:01:26 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 07:02:36 --- nick: schmx -> schme 07:06:11 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:06:29 --- quit: crc (Connection timed out) 07:06:38 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 07:07:27 --- join: crc (n=charlesc@c-68-80-139-0.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:09:47 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:10:14 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 07:14:16 --- join: GeDaMo (n=gedamo@212.225.96.134) joined #forth 07:19:03 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:19:48 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 07:28:21 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:28:41 . 07:28:55 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 07:29:27 --- join: tathi (n=josh@dsl-216-227-91-166.fairpoint.net) joined #forth 07:30:00 I440r so, what's the latest? 07:41:24 hi 07:41:33 http://fdbg.x86asm.net/index.html 07:41:34 hi 07:41:36 was reading that 07:41:58 k 07:42:13 64 bit assembler debugger for linux and windows 07:42:43 ok 07:42:55 that would have been VERY nice a few times when debugging isforths kernel lol 07:43:14 i sent you a copy of the latest heh 07:43:22 im procrastinating :P 07:43:59 latest src? 07:46:29 ya 07:46:35 my email had it attached 07:46:58 k 07:48:24 sorry Mark, i gotta be afk; tty in an hour or two. 07:48:41 kk np 07:48:49 i probably need to take a nap lol 07:48:50 was up at 3 07:50:29 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:51:09 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 07:52:15 good evening, Mark :) 07:52:20 hi :0 07:52:30 :) even lol 07:53:13 22:54 here, I think even at where you are 07:53:28 no its morning here 07:53:36 11 am 07:53:40 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:53:42 oh, yah 07:54:18 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 07:54:48 Forex market closed today, 22:54 + 12 = 11 am :) 07:55:56 --- quit: clog (^C) 07:55:56 --- log: stopped forth/09.10.03 07:56:07 --- log: started forth/09.10.03 07:56:07 --- join: clog (n=nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 07:56:07 --- topic: 'Welcome to #forth. We discuss the Forth programming language and a variety of technical subjects. Introduction and Helpful Reading: http://forthfreak.net/index.cgi?FnFC | ANS/ISO Forth Standard doc: http://tinyurl.com/nx7dx | Gforth compiler: http://tinyurl.com/s8uho | http://quartus.net/search | Paste: http://forth.pastebin.ca | http://www.isforth.com' 07:56:07 --- topic: set by I440r on [Fri Feb 13 08:39:24 2009] 07:56:07 --- names: list (clog ASau` tathi GeDaMo crc Quiznos segher neceve Frek DrunkTomato mathrick I440r f[x] aguai _Jordan_ scj nighty_ nottwo bjorkintosh uiu Snoopy_1611 probonono Al2O3 tarbo malyn madwork gogonkt nighty__ kleinjt madgarden jimt yiyus schme ams` gnomon uiu_) 07:57:16 continue write my IME, enjoying program with forth 07:57:28 suckless I feel 07:57:35 ? 07:58:19 im bbl. i think i need a nap. woke up at 3 am 07:58:28 IME or XIM 07:58:41 bbl ? 07:58:46 ime.org ? :) 07:58:50 Be Back Later 07:59:43 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:59:46 Chinese XIM Input Method 08:00:04 enjoy nap :) 08:00:13 http://satirist.org/whale/2009/10/02.html 08:00:23 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 08:00:50 I no sleep last night 08:06:30 --- join: kar8nga (n=kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 08:09:49 recursion and loops which is better in forth? 08:10:19 It depends. :) 08:11:59 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:12:05 I tend to use loops more than recursion. 08:12:09 mh 08:12:32 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 08:13:44 unless your doing something moronic like an ackerman function itterative methods are generally faster and WAY simpler than recursive methods 08:14:11 Heh. I was waiting for that. 08:14:32 : cleave ." separates" ; 08:14:32 : cleave ." joins " prior cleave ; 08:14:46 reva? 08:14:52 yah 08:15:24 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:15:57 : 0 1 rot 1+ 1 do tuck + loop nip ; 08:16:03 errr no 08:16:09 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 08:16:14 : fib 0 1 rot 1+1 do tuck + loop nip ; 08:16:22 forgot to give it a name 08:16:28 Heh. 08:16:38 And here I was trying to figure out if it actually did return 0. 08:16:51 lol 08:17:28 if you write that in the more traditional recusive way it will recurse on itself one hundred and fourteen MILLION times to calculate the 40th fib 08:17:38 help system of reva made learn easy 08:20:02 let system explan itself 08:20:16 I like this point 08:23:53 I440r: except that that's a stupid argument; you're comparing apples and oranges. 08:23:55 --- quit: kar8nga (Remote closed the connection) 08:24:08 tathi yes and no 08:24:50 im, not saying... "code your quick sort itteratvly it will be faster and simpler" because quicksort lends itself to recursive methods 08:24:55 A direct translation to recursion looks like this: 08:24:57 : (fib) >r tuck + r> 1- dup if recurse then ; 08:24:57 : fib 0 1 rot (fib) drop nip ; 08:25:05 i think gnu wrote an itterative quic sort and its horrible 08:25:45 im saying use something like a shell sort or a radix counting sort 08:25:52 sure 08:26:37 things like an ackerman function would also be horrible done itterativly. tho... if you can find an itterative algorithm that does the same thing.. . . 08:26:49 I'm just objecting to you comparing your iterative fib with the traditional doubly-recursive one which is only ever used to test the calling overhead of a language. 08:27:09 but anyway i def have to take that nap, my dad drank the last of the coffee and im too lazy to make more :) 08:27:42 nap better than cafe 08:27:52 for health 08:27:53 tathi i still say your singly recursive method is more complex than my itterative method 08:28:11 so my argument isnt totally invalid heh 08:28:36 Oh, sure. I don't think Forth is particularly oriented towards recursive solutions. 08:28:43 and i bet my pure itterative function is faster than your singly recursive method and also wont stomp on the stack 08:28:54 neither is C. people just THINK it is 08:29:04 If you have tail-call elimination mine won't touch the return stack either. 08:29:08 ok sure. maybe the optimzer can help there 08:29:18 iforth has that 08:29:30 heh. I was thinking scheme, not C. :) 08:29:35 but what is the advantage of using that over a simple begin while loop 08:29:36 or Haskell, maybe 08:29:45 or begin until 08:29:49 I never said there was an advantage. 08:30:07 ok. then show there isnt a disadvantage which was MY argument hehe 08:30:16 but later. i gotta log im fallin assleep! :) 08:30:22 ya. Go sleep. 08:31:44 :) 08:31:57 sleep , dont waste time 08:34:30 --- join: foxes (i=flash@222.131.175.74) joined #forth 08:37:53 --- join: foxLaptop (i=flash@222.131.175.74) joined #forth 08:38:27 --- quit: ASau` (Connection reset by peer) 08:39:14 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 08:43:42 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:44:21 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 08:56:53 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:57:25 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 08:58:09 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:58:36 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 09:01:38 --- quit: Al2O3 () 09:01:51 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@h43.243.40.69.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) joined #forth 09:02:42 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:03:13 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 09:13:46 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:14:20 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 09:21:47 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:24:26 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 09:29:40 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:30:33 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 09:38:45 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:41:46 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 09:44:46 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:45:23 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 09:48:39 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:49:29 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 09:54:08 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:55:34 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 10:06:08 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:08:51 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 10:11:56 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:12:23 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 10:13:21 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:14:08 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 10:15:37 i got: Invalid memory address , when I try to input a word ,HAVE , : HAVE s" xxx" ; 10:16:39 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:16:48 it's ok when i test it independently . but when mix with other s" xxx" s" yuu " . it shows up the "Invalid memory address" 10:17:13 Possible error in what ever comes before it? 10:17:13 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 10:20:54 i tried input the words before, but nothing happened. 10:21:30 have 10:21:30 :1: Invalid memory address 10:21:30 >>>have<<< 10:21:30 Backtrace: 10:21:30 $7F972FE2A3C0 branch 10:23:11 Which Forth? Does it have see? 10:23:11 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:23:39 gforth 0.7.0 10:23:53 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 10:24:45 The problem isn't with defining have, it's with using it? 10:26:14 maybe 10:26:38 Try "see have" 10:26:52 or try telling us what you're actually doing that causes the error. 10:27:54 actually , I am coding a translate program. translate the English to Chinese . 10:28:21 I use the simple form, : have s" 有" ; 10:29:47 I defined with , : I s" 我" ; 10:30:04 I have ==> 我有 10:30:57 --- join: maht (n=maht__@85.189.31.174.proweb.managedbroadband.co.uk) joined #forth 10:30:59 http://pastebin.com/d5080bccb use this , I connect 2 string 10:32:19 Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see where you allocate memory for your combined string 10:32:19 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:32:57 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 10:36:35 connect-2-str ( addr1 u1 addr2 u2 -- addr1 u1+u2 ) copy last string into the first string's addr, and leave addr1 and the length u1+u2 on the stack 10:37:11 So you know there's enough space at addr1 to take the combined string? 10:38:22 I am not sure. but it works fine so far, until I met this error 10:38:22 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:38:47 You may just have been lucky up till this point 10:39:06 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 10:39:08 nod !! 10:39:09 If you don't explicitly allocate memory, you're overwriting something 10:39:27 maybe the key is here. 10:40:01 You should use allot or allocate to create space and copy both strings there 10:40:31 I see. 10:40:47 * foxes trying to read allocate first ;) 10:49:37 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:50:10 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 10:54:41 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:55:19 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 10:57:38 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:58:29 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 11:00:50 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:01:36 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 11:05:22 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:05:39 --- join: pgas (n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/pgas) joined #forth 11:06:14 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 11:08:49 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:09:28 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 11:15:30 * madgarden is back (gone 12:14:12) 11:16:59 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:17:34 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 11:19:37 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:20:11 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 11:21:26 --- join: TR2N (i=email@89-180-201-229.net.novis.pt) joined #forth 11:23:35 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:24:19 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 11:36:31 --- quit: Quiznos (Client Quit) 11:37:10 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:38:07 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 11:38:49 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:39:16 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 11:43:35 --- join: TR2N` (i=email@89-180-209-121.net.novis.pt) joined #forth 11:46:00 --- quit: TR2N (Nick collision from services.) 11:46:03 --- nick: TR2N` -> TR2N 11:53:14 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:55:53 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 11:56:35 --- join: TR2N` (n=email@89-180-210-212.net.novis.pt) joined #forth 11:59:11 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:00:05 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 12:01:43 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:02:14 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 12:03:24 --- quit: TR2N` (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 12:03:24 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:03:51 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ppp91-77-58-254.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 12:04:55 --- quit: ASau` (Remote closed the connection) 12:11:36 --- quit: TR2N (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:22:13 --- quit: pgas ("/quit") 12:49:59 --- quit: foxes (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:50:20 --- join: foxes (i=flash@222.131.175.74) joined #forth 13:20:44 --- join: benny99 (n=benny@f055012240.adsl.alicedsl.de) joined #forth 13:21:15 --- quit: DrunkTomato () 13:28:23 --- quit: f[x] (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:32:52 --- join: TR2N (i=email@89.180.177.41) joined #forth 13:37:14 --- quit: benny99 (Client Quit) 14:37:26 --- quit: GeDaMo ("Leaving.") 15:45:15 gah. PFE is such a kludgy, sloppy piece of code. 18:10:48 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 18:12:47 --- quit: gogonkt (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 18:14:25 --- join: gogonkt (n=info@218.13.46.244) joined #forth 18:16:41 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 18:56:49 123 >R 18:56:49 :10: Invalid memory address 18:56:58 but when I try: 18:57:05 123 >R R> ok 18:58:13 are there something I missed about >R and R>? 19:07:53 I use Gforth 0.7.0 19:09:15 >r should only be used inside a definition 19:10:22 6.1.0580 >R 19:10:23 to-r CORE 19:10:23 Interpretation: Interpretation semantics for this word are undefined. 19:10:24 Execution: ( x -- ) ( R: -- x ) 19:10:24 Move x to the return stack. 19:10:47 Oh!! 19:11:07 also see http://forthworks.com/standards/DPANS/dpans3.htm#3.2.3.3 for other notes on the return stack 19:11:24 thank you. 19:11:29 you're welcome 19:16:32 note that some systems do allow it in interpret mode 19:19:07 but that's not guaranteed to work, so it can't be relied on for a portable program 19:19:58 of course. unless that portable program declares an environmental dependency on it :-) 19:35:08 that breaks portability though 19:41:26 --- quit: neceve (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 19:45:49 portability is always relative, heh -- hardly any program has _no_ environmental dependencies 19:46:11 and sure, this is a pretty strong one :-) 19:49:47 some systems even allow ." in interpret mode" but thats really just sillyness 19:50:20 some systems also marked some words as being for use only when in compile mode and barfed if you tried to use them in interpret mode 20:00:39 i usually allow IF BEGIN AHEAD DO ?DO CASE in interpret mode, and >R R> R@ etc., but indeed never ." :-) 20:01:32 and yeah, in systems where i implement the compiler via STATE , i do use a ?COMP 20:02:48 there is pretty much no cost to it, and it makes the interactive system crash less often, so heh :-) 20:03:14 s/crash less often/give nicer error messages/ 20:03:50 or you could let people learn how to NOT shoot themselves in the foot :))) 20:03:51 heh 20:04:10 : 2>R swap >R >R ; \\Is this right 2>R? 20:05:46 i440r: sure. and most command line typoes do not cause memory corruption anyway (they underflow the stack, or get an undefined word, or whatever) 20:05:55 gogonkt: it is. 20:06:17 : 2>r over >r >r drop ; \ for people who hate swap 20:07:16 over swap which better speed? 20:07:57 on some systems OVER is faster -- it's a single memory reference, SWAP is two 20:08:18 but it depends 20:08:18 really, you do not care 20:08:26 oh, : swap over drop ; 20:08:40 jsut don't write an O(n) when it should be O(1) 20:09:34 there are much better ways to get speed than such stupid micro-optimisations 20:09:42 no, : NOOP OVER DROP ; 20:09:47 got it 20:10:17 : swap over drop-the-thing-that's-third-on-stack-now ; 20:10:49 segher, well said. thats why i do not like optimizers that optimize at the instruction level AT ALL 20:10:59 you get maybe a .001% improvement 20:11:11 oh, it's certainly useful, definitely for native code or byte code systems 20:11:18 optimize your algorithms. like... instead of usinga bubble sort use a quick sort etc etc 20:11:24 you easily get 10x or 20x 20:11:39 i disagree. optimizers make the object code more difficult to read and therefore more difficult to debug 20:11:50 improve readable is better 20:11:59 there should be an ABSOLUTE 1:1 co-relation between the source code you write and the object code the compiler produces 20:12:25 the one Forth system i shipped (IBM did, actually) was ITC, and didn't even do TOS caching. the only real optimisation i did was dictionary hashing, and implementing MOVE and COMP in C code 20:12:35 so if i write : blah ..... dup drop ..... i believe NO potimizer should remove that sequence 20:12:54 you cannot really remove it, it's not the same thing 20:13:05 dictionary hashing is an algorithm optimization 20:13:08 unless the optimiser knows the stack is non-empty there 20:13:13 not an optimization at instruction level 20:13:17 sure 20:13:31 i once saw a 3 page VERY VERY complex function taht msvc++ totally removed because it was an effective NOP 20:13:34 i was impressed 20:13:39 it was important when running on a cycle-exact sim only, anyway 20:13:41 but i still disagree with the concept 20:14:13 (only the kernel was compiled code, all the rest was compiled at run time) 20:14:29 (that makes very compact code btw -- source code compresses really well ;-) ) 20:14:38 the only time there should be instruction level optimizations going on is when the CODER does them 20:14:51 the compiler should NEVER add or remove or change things behind the developers back 20:14:51 like i said, depends 20:15:18 i disagree, it never depends. the compiler should produce code that matches EXACTLY what the source states 100% of the time 20:15:31 for systems that compile to native code, it is a HUGE speedup 20:15:41 and it still matches 100% 20:16:07 i agree for things like dead code elimination, somewhat. 20:16:29 no. it doesnt match 100%. : blah dup drop dup drop dup drop ; <---- taht function could be removed entirely 20:16:39 no. there shouldnt even dead code elimination 20:16:47 that's what i said 20:16:47 if i wrote dead code YOU COMPILE DEAD CODE :) 20:16:50 heh 20:17:09 but also. if i write op1 op2 op3 op4 and it can be recoded as 0p1 op5 20:17:17 you compile it EXACTLY AS STATED 20:17:28 no exceptions 20:17:29 but when i write 1 and i don't have a definition for that, it's fine with me if the compiler doesn't do a LIT 20:18:01 and if i write 1 + the compiler can happily do 1+ as far as i am conceerned 20:18:14 no 20:18:46 if you meant 1+ you would have written 1+ 20:18:53 not no. that is _my_ opinion, you have nothing to say about it :-P 20:19:02 if you didnt mean it the compiler should not "interpret" and make decisions for you 20:19:11 i can try educate you :P 20:19:22 you won't succeed, sorry 20:19:27 heh 20:19:51 compilers are stupid. they should always do EXACTLY what they were told 20:19:52 if all your world is threaded code, you get strange ideas like that 20:20:14 if the person telling the compiler what to do is more stupid than the compiler then they shouldnt be at the keyboard :P 20:20:22 sure :-) 20:20:51 but the industry doesnt want to have to hire people with a clue. they want to be able to hire the totally clueless and have the compiler FIX their code 20:20:59 but, for example, my virtual machine has registers that aren't even exposed at the Forth level. 20:21:57 let's simplify a bit -- let's say i have a TOS register that either or not is filled 20:22:18 so when i do DUP , it should either compile a load from stack, or a store to stack 20:23:03 i don't want to deal with that at a Forth code level. that's the compiler's job. 20:23:23 if i really care, i can always write native code 20:23:42 but i don't want to write asm, i want to write Forth 20:24:52 sleep time now 20:24:53 were not talking about optimization here. were talking about translation. 20:24:54 ciao 20:24:57 nite :) 20:25:00 same thing 20:25:14 nite 20:25:29 --- quit: segher ("Brain going into hibernation") 21:32:30 --- join: Quiznos (i=1000@c-68-56-143-229.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 21:39:54 --- quit: nighty__ (Client Quit) 23:00:50 --- part: TR2N left #forth 23:11:12 --- join: f[x] (n=user@95.133.172.70) joined #forth 23:47:12 --- quit: nighty^ (Remote closed the connection) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/09.10.03