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07:56:22 <jauaor> hello
07:56:23 <jauaor> :)
07:56:51 * jauaor testing the new twisted 'new' like operator
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08:28:23 <schme> Quiznos: you might like arch if you like the slack.
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08:45:08 <gogonkt> arch => slack?
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08:59:14 <segher> slackware was nice, sixteen years ago
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09:44:24 <Quiznos> schme k
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11:32:55 <Guest88796> Any activity here?
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11:55:51 <I440r> erm
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12:00:37 <chris2> hi. does anyone have a copy of the OKAD source or know where I can get it?
12:09:36 <segher> it's fully proprietary code afaik
12:10:28 <chris2> version 1 too?
12:11:59 <segher> yes, afaik
12:13:01 <chris2> too bad
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12:24:56 <zzo38> In Forth, sometimes you already have the value you need and you can make the code shorter and simpler, but it might be a bit confusing. I usually deal with it by adding a comment.
12:25:05 <zzo38> An example is:
12:25:31 <zzo38> EV.PLAYERSHOOT :EVENT DROP SHOOTLIMIT @ DUP IF $00 $00 $00 $0C Bullet COUNTOBJ > 0= THEN ;
12:28:14 <I440r> erm. why do forth coders feel the need to code in ALL upper case? it really is bad form
12:28:49 <zzo38> Why is it bad form? It depend on the bad form for individual people who program, and also on the case-sensitivity.
12:29:07 <I440r> ITS BAD FORM FOR THE SAME REASON THIS IS lol
12:29:12 <zzo38> In this example, it is MegaZeux, which is case-insensitive (so you can use lowercase if you want to), but I prefer to make it uppercase
12:29:41 <I440r> sources that are all upper case are harder to read.  lower case lettering is easier to read
12:29:57 <I440r> lower case sources look less of a "wall of text"
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12:30:46 <zzo38> It depends on the font, too. Some fonts are not as easy to read in uppercase (especially proportional Times Roman and things like that), but in some fonts (such as C64) it is OK.
12:30:59 <zzo38> Still, code in lowercase or uppercase or Proper case or whatever you want to.
12:31:47 <zzo38> (I just tend to prefer the uppercase Forth codes mostly)
12:31:52 <I440r> code should be in all lower case IMHO (including constants) unless its within stuff to be displayed
12:31:56 <I440r>  ."This is ok" cr
12:32:12 <I440r> people who code asm do that too
12:32:14 <zzo38> O, OK then. Well, if that's what you prefer, there is nothing wrong with you coding like that.
12:32:52 <I440r> i write my code to be readable. i avoid "wall of text" formatting
12:33:12 <zzo38> But writing "i" instead of "I" at the beginning of the sentence (in English) is also bad.
12:33:28 <zzo38> (unless you mean something which is case-sensitive and has to be lowercase, in which case "i" would be better)
12:33:44 <zzo38> (For example: "i represents the square root of negative one")
12:34:08 <I440r> doesnt have anything to do with case sensativity
12:34:15 <I440r> its to do with readability
12:35:27 <Maki> there is one word in his code that is readable: Bullet
12:35:30 <Maki> :)
12:36:03 <I440r> its all readable. but lower case is easier to read
12:36:13 <Maki> agreed
12:36:37 <I440r> its not just old time forth coders that code in all upper case, its old time assembler coders too
12:36:58 <I440r> tho asm coders in general have no standard way of formatting their code evein within their own source files
12:36:58 <zzo38> Even the "Bullet" is case-insensitive, but I wrote it this way because the name of kinds of objects in MegaZeux are generally written like this everywhere (sometimes there are multi-words, such as "InvisWall")
12:37:02 <I440r> label:  
12:37:07 <I440r>   mov             ax, #1
12:37:10 <I440r>   push bx
12:37:20 <I440r>                 mov cx, #3
12:37:27 <I440r>    jmp nowhere
12:37:41 <I440r> ive seen crap like that a lot :)
12:37:44 <zzo38> Why is there so much spaces between "mov" and "ax", and all weird indenting and spacing in asm codes?
12:37:54 <I440r> because the coder hit TAB when he should have hit space
12:38:01 <I440r> my asm code is alwayus
12:38:16 <zzo38> O, that's why. But I don't know why you would ever do that, except in some cases
12:38:19 <I440r> label:    ;on a line by itself or with a comment only
12:38:45 <I440r>   mov ax, 1      ;comments always in the 29'th column
12:38:49 <I440r>   push bx
12:39:13 <I440r> one spac indent. one space between "mov" and "ax," and one space between "ax," and "1"
12:39:15 <I440r> i dont ever use tabs
12:39:17 <zzo38> When programming in C or FreeBASIC I tend to make everything lowercase, but function names defined in Proper case in FreeBASIC. But hex numbers are all uppercase except the "0x" or "&h" part.
12:39:41 <zzo38> I hardly ever use tabs either (except when writing gopher menus, in which case tabs are required)
12:39:43 <I440r> ive seen asm source files that had clusterfuck formatting like taht from the top of the source file to the bottom
12:39:59 <I440r> tabs are also required in make files 
12:40:05 <I440r> stupid GNU developers
12:40:15 <zzo38> Ah, yes in make files. But I never write make files.
12:40:32 <zzo38> I do sometimes *use* make files, but I never write them.
12:40:34 <I440r> if i had an assembler extension for isforth i wouldnt need a make file OR a linker
12:40:46 <I440r>  /cry
12:41:47 <zzo38> But, can you understand what I originally wrote with the code example?
12:42:11 <zzo38> About the values sometimes you already have it? (In the actual program, I put a comment describing this, but in this one-line example there is no comment)
12:42:52 <I440r> actually i did not understand the code at all
12:43:06 <I440r> thers no room for the comments
12:43:16 <I440r> not unless you do
12:43:31 <I440r>   code code ( comment ) code code code (comment comment) code code code code (comment)
12:43:36 <I440r> which looks like shit
12:43:40 <I440r> code     comment
12:43:40 <I440r> code     comment
12:43:41 <I440r> code     comment
12:43:41 <I440r> code     comment
12:43:48 <I440r> thats the ONLY way to make readable code
12:43:51 <I440r> period
12:44:07 <zzo38> I always put comments at the end of a line anyways (with a backslash)
12:44:13 <I440r> yes
12:44:16 <zzo38> I don't mix comments and code on one line, it is too bad.
12:44:16 <I440r>   : blah
12:44:32 <I440r>   lots of code  here ;              \ lots of comments here
12:44:36 <zzo38> (The only comments you should put on the same line is stack comments)
12:44:47 <I440r> http://www.isforth.com/docs.php?t=comments
12:44:54 <I440r> agreed
12:45:01 <I440r> : blah ( before --- after )
12:45:07 <I440r>   code ; \ comments go here
12:45:15 <zzo38> O, did you didn't understand the code I wrote? I can exmplain what it does.
12:45:21 <zzo38> In case you don't know MegaZeux.
12:45:30 <I440r> i dont even know what it is :P
12:45:41 <I440r> if its an ans forth im about " <--- this interested hehe
12:46:39 <zzo38> This is a event handler for when the player is going to shoot. The limit of player bullets at once is stored in SHOOTLIMIT variable. If it is non-zero, it count the number of player bullets already on the board.
12:46:47 <zzo38> If it is too much it return non-zero to stop you from shooting.
12:47:16 <zzo38> (In the actual program I have a comment "\ Else it is already 0")
12:47:17 <I440r> this is a multi player game? or 1 person against the computer?
12:47:59 <zzo38> Search MegaZeux on Google or Wikipedia or whatever, if you want to learn what MegaZeux is. MegaZeux is discussed also in irc.esper.net:6667 #mzx
12:48:57 <zzo38> I'm the guy who added ability to use Forth codes in MegaZeux.
12:51:19 <I440r> did u look at the "comments" link i posted above?
12:51:27 <I440r> if so you only looked at the first page :)
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13:05:06 <zzo38> O, sorry, I didn't open the web-browser yet
13:07:06 <zzo38> O, yes, I looked now, I saw all the pages
13:10:22 <zzo38> And I did use Gforth to write a GameBoy game.
13:11:25 <I440r> :)
13:11:35 <I440r> i have a DS and want to create a forth for it
13:11:43 <I440r> well ther already is one but its not very good :P
13:12:43 <zzo38> O. Yes, I have also wanted to create Forth for the DS
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15:14:24 <impomatic> hi
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20:07:38 <gogonkt> "最新的研究结果称晚上熬夜反而比早起的人有更好的警觉性和工作效率。来自Scientific
20:07:42 <gogonkt> American的文章称：在醒来后的1个半小时以后，早起的人和夜猫子在注意力和警觉性方面并没有什么差异。但是在醒来后10个半小时以后，夜猫子相比具有更高的警觉性，他们在进行需要持续注意力的任务时反应更快、效果更好，并且其与注意力相关脑部区域活动明显增强。"
20:07:47 <gogonkt> ...
20:07:55 <gogonkt> sry...
20:18:56 <Raystm2> hehe what was that?
20:19:08 <Raystm2> looks like windings on my end. :)
20:19:44 <crc> Ray: "The latest research findings that staying up late at night rather than the people who get up early and have a better awareness and work efficiency. From the Scientific American article said: In the wake up after a half-hour later, get up early in the attention of people and a night owl and increasing awareness, and there is no difference in terms of. but woke up after 10 and a half hours later, a night owl than a higher alertness, 
20:19:44 <crc> they must require sustained attention response to task faster, better, and its and attention-related brain regional activities markedly enhanced. "
20:25:33 <gogonkt> Raystm2: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=early-risers-crash-faster-than-people-who-stay-up-late
20:30:59 <gogonkt> crc: :)
20:32:08 <Raystm2> lol crc, if that were only true in my case hehe :) 
20:32:13 <Raystm2> thanks gogonkt :)
20:32:37 <gogonkt> find vimpression cute
20:32:51 <gogonkt> webkit + vim key maping
20:32:59 <gogonkt> https://projects.ring0.de/webkitbrowser/
20:33:18 <gogonkt> uzbl ugly :(
20:40:13 <Raystm2> Great article, ty. 
20:40:57 <Raystm2> Has anyone else felt, as a child, on that day that you first really noticed the difference from staying up late rather then getting up early? I think I do.
20:42:48 <Raystm2> THAT"s the day you became a Forther. lol :)
20:43:03 <Raystm2> Here's yer sign. :)(
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21:34:44 <Quiznos> crc the quote is a rambling line of bs, making no sense. wow
21:59:00 <I440r> i was thinking that too lol
21:59:05 <I440r> but i stfu :)
21:59:16 <I440r> busy fixing isforth.com
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22:50:01 --- nick: milfpot -> PurpleSmurf
22:51:07 --- nick: PurpleSmurf -> Quiznos
22:51:16 --- nick: Quiznos -> PurpleSmurf
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22:57:24 <Raystm2> It makes better sense when you see the article.
22:57:47 <PurpleSmurf> nah i dont believe you :)
22:57:51 <Raystm2> lol 
22:58:30 <PurpleSmurf> i stayed up late on july 4th counting explosions
22:58:46 <PurpleSmurf> counted billions above Staten Island
22:59:28 <PurpleSmurf> I could see east new jersey from my 8th apt floor window looking west 
22:59:53 <Raystm2> I once dated the Staten Island Fairy of 1981 but she pasted me up for Mr. Clean of 1978.
22:59:54 <Raystm2> :)
23:00:03 <PurpleSmurf> lol
23:00:22 <Raystm2> pasted, D'oh!
23:00:26 <Raystm2> sorry.
23:00:33 <PurpleSmurf> passed lol
23:00:38 <Raystm2> ya. 
23:00:42 <Raystm2> I know. 
23:00:58 <Raystm2> Not in N.Y no more? Different digs?
23:01:20 <PurpleSmurf> fla. atm; going to Tulsa soon to go back to skrool
23:01:26 <PurpleSmurf> God's plan.
23:01:29 <Raystm2> Gator?
23:01:33 <PurpleSmurf> oru.edu
23:01:39 <PurpleSmurf> in tulsa
23:01:52 <Raystm2> Dohclahoma?
23:01:53 <PurpleSmurf> not in skool atm
23:02:01 <PurpleSmurf> Okrahoma
23:02:05 <Raystm2> right.
23:02:34 <Raystm2> I like slimy okra, but I don't know why cuz all other slime discusts me to no end.
23:02:42 <PurpleSmurf> lol
23:02:50 <PurpleSmurf> you're not frying it long enuf
23:02:59 <Raystm2> hehe
23:04:49 <Raystm2> I've never been to Tulsa long enough to do anything. Is it nice?
23:04:58 <PurpleSmurf> duno yet.
23:05:03 <Raystm2> OH! okay.
23:05:04 <PurpleSmurf> i spose it is
23:05:18 <PurpleSmurf> first time going there
23:05:25 <Raystm2> sure. Cable is the same all over the country. internet as well. :)
23:05:46 <PurpleSmurf> well, it's more training for me before getting to the meat of god's plan
23:06:22 <Raystm2> cool. Gotta like meat. I eat very little but I do eat it. 
23:06:29 <PurpleSmurf> yea
23:06:38 <PurpleSmurf> i prefer meat to pablum
23:07:07 --- nick: PurpleSmurf -> Quiznos
23:07:17 <Raystm2> Steaks are very good in Tulsa or so I'm told, ( by ??) 
23:07:22 <Quiznos> lol
23:07:47 <Raystm2> The too have a 'sauce'.
23:07:48 <Quiznos> well; i'm not comfortable down here west fla.
23:07:55 <Raystm2> The+y
23:08:05 <Quiznos> too humid, no mass transit, things are too far away from me to walk...
23:08:10 <Raystm2> Heat? or some other pressure?
23:08:17 <Quiznos> no car; sick of bicycle
23:08:19 <Raystm2> certainly. 
23:08:26 <Raystm2> indeed.
23:08:29 <Quiznos> dry heat is eh; but humidity is nasty
23:08:37 <Raystm2> agreed.
23:09:01 <Raystm2> You gonna go study with Earl Roberts?
23:09:01 <Quiznos> i'm a city man; an urbanite, i'm not used to big space.
23:09:15 <Quiznos> oral; his son actually runs the skool now
23:09:32 * Raystm2 borne in the forests of mid-western Massachusettes and knows the feeling well. 
23:09:50 <Raystm2> Very sorry on miss spell, ty for correction.
23:09:56 <Raystm2> Does he now?
23:09:59 <Quiznos> i seriously miss new england; yesterday morn i heard that it was 30F where I lived 12 years in pennsy
23:10:05 <Quiznos> s'ok
23:10:09 <Raystm2> I suppose so, been many years going, that school.
23:10:17 <Quiznos> i pine for new england weather
23:10:22 <Quiznos> i'd rather freeze than melt
23:10:25 <Raystm2> This time of year...
23:10:44 <Raystm2> trees beginining to turn...
23:10:48 <Quiznos> nods
23:10:53 <Raystm2> Smells 
23:11:00 <Quiznos> i should google some local maps/fotos
23:11:03 <Raystm2> the first seasonal fires
23:13:12 <Quiznos> where are you located now?
23:13:36 <Raystm2> My old home town was mostly Catholic and Polish, we are french and irish, and so the Fridays became fry-days and in the alley ways between the bars at the end of each block and the big church in the middle, Fish'n'chips wrapped in butcher paper. 
23:13:42 <Raystm2> Denver. 
23:13:56 <Quiznos> lol; nice.
23:13:58 <Raystm2> 3 years now after 20 odd years in Fort Worth tx.
23:14:02 <Quiznos> nods
23:14:46 <Quiznos> well, God's been training me now since Y2000 when he first offered me his BigPlan.
23:14:48 <Raystm2> A few years at sea and 17 years in MA. near Ma, Cn. R.I. boarder.
23:15:02 <Quiznos> kool
23:15:43 <Raystm2> There is a bit of history there. Nothing like Europe as far as european history goes but more then here in Denver. :)
23:16:13 <Raystm2> Shows up in the roads and towns built around them.
23:16:24 <Raystm2> The modern town is built for cars not people. 
23:16:57 <Quiznos> america is quite uniq; and european hatred of us is quite long-term; i've even seen alleged text from a brit news paper from the 1600s expresing our required destruction  
23:17:11 <Quiznos> bummer
23:17:48 <Quiznos> european royals always hated the concepts developed here
23:18:23 <I440r> just dont read any bibles derived from the MINORITY texts!!!!!
23:18:23 <Raystm2> My search for knowledge turns up that in that time and for about 100 years before, prejudice was invented for elite control of mass poor. 
23:18:29 <I440r> spawn of satan! grrr
23:18:41 <Quiznos> agreed Mark
23:18:45 <Raystm2> Hi Mark. How you been?
23:18:54 <Quiznos> but do yo know why minority texts are bad?
23:18:59 <I440r> get yerself a good copy of the Jeneva Bible :0
23:19:10 <I440r> im good but i need to find work again :(
23:19:28 <Quiznos> i use Tyndale's and a interlinear literal.greek-english text
23:19:35 <Quiznos> Geneva
23:19:38 <I440r> well the NIV for example has about 3000 omissions, deletions and modifications
23:19:44 * Raystm2 would love some form of income producing awesome activity.
23:19:45 <Quiznos> yea
23:20:15 <I440r> the the vatican says the these texts are the oldest in the world.  completely ignoring the pesheta bible which predates them by 300 years
23:20:23 <Quiznos> yep
23:20:28 <Quiznos> Peshita
23:20:29 <I440r> the minority texts are BUTCHERED, highly corrupt texts
23:20:36 <I440r> yea i spelt it rong lol
23:20:37 <Raystm2> Is that so? cool what you learn in a day.
23:20:43 <Quiznos> afaik, they were found in eygptian trash.
23:20:47 <Quiznos> heh
23:20:59 <I440r> there are 2 minority texts
23:21:18 <Quiznos> westcott/Hort are the name of the minority text group
23:21:21 <Quiznos> is the *
23:21:25 <I440r> one was found in a monestary in jeruselem. the monks thought it such a corrupt text theh intended to burn it
23:21:35 <Quiznos> they dint?
23:22:02 <I440r> no. someone got hold of them and they were never destroyed
23:22:07 <Quiznos> bummer
23:22:14 <Quiznos> what's the text's name?
23:22:17 <Quiznos> modern name
23:22:43 <I440r> the only other minority text is a book that was found in the vatican. its been hacked on in a big way. and is also corrupted big time
23:22:46 <I440r> it angers me :(
23:23:01 <Quiznos> well; not let the anger fester
23:23:03 <I440r> they call it the word of god yet 
23:23:20 <Quiznos> no, i mean, vaticanus or text A...
23:23:28 <I440r> "man does not live by bread alone but by ALL THE WORDS OF GOD" is edited to say "man does not live by bread alone" and thats it
23:23:33 <I440r> yes. thats the A text
23:23:34 <Quiznos> sure
23:23:36 <Quiznos> i've seen that
23:23:38 <I440r> the other one is the B
23:23:39 <Quiznos> ah
23:23:40 <Quiznos> ok
23:23:44 * Raystm2 not to change the subject... Would like to beg for donations on web movies that teach guitar lessons on line for free
23:23:53 <Quiznos> try the tube
23:24:05 <I440r> i read the jeneva bible. it is probably the best bible ever written in english
23:24:09 <Raystm2> If you can say it in one sentence... sometimes it could work.
23:24:10 <I440r> and its been out of print for 400 years
23:24:14 <Quiznos> that's the main protestant text
23:24:21 <Quiznos> ray chk the Tube
23:24:35 <Raystm2> Tube.
23:24:41 <Raystm2> Tubular. 
23:24:47 <Raystm2> youTube?
23:24:51 <Quiznos> yea
23:24:53 <Raystm2> or Tube.
23:24:58 <Raystm2> Okay thanks :)
23:25:01 <Raystm2> Good idea.
23:25:02 <Quiznos> yw
23:25:09 <I440r> the ppl that wrote the jeneva bible said that "if i live long enough ill see to it that a boy behind a plow knows more of scripture than you" speaking to a roman catholic bishop i think
23:25:13 <I440r> something like that
23:25:23 <Quiznos> heh
23:25:56 <Raystm2> oh jeneva is a modern bible?
23:26:00 <Quiznos> some counselor to a brit queen told her; "the word of God is an anvil..." (forgot rest of quot)
23:26:01 <I440r> no
23:26:02 * Raystm2 knows nothing of this stuff.
23:26:08 <Quiznos> ray, ca. 1600s work
23:26:11 <Raystm2> ty
23:26:13 <I440r> its the bible that made king james comission the KJV
23:26:14 <Quiznos> maybe 1590s
23:26:32 <I440r> he did not like the study notes that basically usurped HIS authority
23:26:36 <Raystm2> connection to Martin Luther's Bible is ________?
23:26:45 <I440r> i.e. you live by GODS law before you lived by mans
23:26:49 <Quiznos> yea, king James hated the geneva text; it was too good; he also manated NO marginal notes, which the Geneva book had copiuous amounts of
23:26:58 <I440r> yup
23:27:07 <Quiznos> the notes can be found online too
23:27:15 <Quiznos> i have em in my Archive/ already
23:27:40 <I440r> the thing is though. the KJV is mostly a copy of the jeneva bible
23:27:42 <Quiznos> Luther was a german?  
23:27:44 <I440r> i dont read VERSIONS
23:27:48 <I440r> i read translations
23:27:49 <Quiznos> and of Tyndale's work too
23:27:51 <I440r> yes
23:28:12 <I440r> thers a copy of the tyndale bible online too!
23:28:18 <Quiznos> nods
23:28:25 <Raystm2> Tyndale being a version of ML's bible?
23:28:27 <I440r> i have a modern replrint of the jeneva bible
23:28:32 <I440r> yes
23:28:35 <I440r> i think thats right
23:28:37 <Raystm2> Doesn't it all stem from ML?
23:28:39 <Quiznos> Ray, Luther was a catholic priest who posted his "95 thesis" against the catholic church
23:28:53 <I440r> the vatican sais that the bible should not be translated into the "VULGER tongue"
23:28:54 <Quiznos> on a church door
23:28:56 <I440r> i.e english
23:29:04 <I440r> because it does not translate well!
23:29:04 <Raystm2> But it all got blown out of proportion due to the recent invention of cheap printing.
23:29:06 <I440r> bullshit
23:29:17 <Quiznos> the church (from scottish word "kirk", `ch' == `k')
23:29:20 <I440r> it translates into german or english far better than it does into latin
23:29:22 <Quiznos> heh
23:29:48 <Quiznos> Raystm2 yea; more feasible to print in quantity
23:29:51 <I440r> im suppriesd actually. ive not been studying this long. i didnt realise ther were others in here stydying it :)
23:30:04 <I440r> http://www.hissheep.org/kjv/a_comparison_of_the_kjv_niv.html
23:30:27 <Quiznos> I440r in ##Linux i get rebukes from some but there are alot of disciples there; too bad they stay silent
23:30:49 <Raystm2> ML wanted a discussion between himself, his boss and a big wig OR the Pope if possible, ML's friends had distributed this ( nailed to the door is prob a myth ) list and in about 40-50 days it was all over Europe. First idea to ever do that. ML was a celebety in his own time. One of the first at that as well. 
23:31:01 <I440r> every so often i feel god tapping on my shoulder saying "AHEM!"
23:31:02 <I440r> lol
23:31:06 <Raystm2> More people knew his picture then of any other human.
23:31:08 <Quiznos> lol
23:31:41 <I440r> i dont go to church tho. ive not found one that i can agree with
23:31:56 <I440r> tho some form of reformation church would be good
23:32:10 <Quiznos> nor i; but I look for right teaching, not one who agrees with me.  they must agree with God and his word.
23:32:11 <I440r> i carry both a GUN and a bible
23:32:16 <Quiznos> lol
23:32:47 <I440r> if im wrong then correct me but god says we should go about our daily lives armed to the teeth
23:32:55 <Quiznos> i'm rather unrelenting when it comes to biblical accuracy, comprehension, teaching and prophecy.
23:33:03 <I440r> as am i.
23:33:06 <Quiznos> it's gotta be 100% correct or it's FAIL
23:33:13 <I440r> i am MAJORLY angry at the vatican
23:33:29 <I440r> i think, if you wanted to find a place on earth furthest from god you need only go to rome
23:33:31 <Quiznos> ignore them acept for their possible role in end-time prophecy.
23:33:36 <Quiznos> lol
23:34:00 <I440r> i have always loved easter as a kid. now i think its satans influence
23:34:07 <Quiznos> yep
23:34:10 <I440r> easter is derived from ester. the queen of heaven
23:34:26 <Quiznos> Ishtar
23:34:26 <I440r> god told the house of juda that he would UTTERNLY DESTROY them for worshiping ester
23:34:29 <I440r> yup
23:34:35 <Raystm2> Is that so. Cool. 
23:34:44 <I440r> hang on
23:34:48 <Quiznos> ray, it's really all related
23:34:53 <Quiznos> people just dont know it.
23:35:25 <Quiznos> Ishtar is directly related to Nimrod and an alleged son.
23:35:41 <Quiznos> the same Nimrod mentioned in Genesis
23:35:50 <Quiznos> and he was no dolt either
23:36:00 <I440r> its either in isaiah or jeremiah i have to find it lol
23:36:13 <Quiznos> Mark no need for me 
23:36:23 <I440r> yes nimrod was a mighty warrior in opposition to god
23:36:33 <Quiznos> Raystm2 here's another bit-o-minutia;
23:36:40 <I440r> except.  modern bibles make him out to be a mighty warror who fought FOR god not against
23:37:06 <Quiznos> Isaiah; we say "I-zay-ah" is actually pronouned (with hebrew sounds) Ish-yah
23:37:52 <Quiznos> Ish is hebrew for Man; and any variant english syllab. of `iah' is the `yah' meaning God, one of His name.
23:37:57 <I440r> i have considered learning both hebrew and greek 
23:38:02 --- join: f[x] (n=user@95.133.253.112) joined #forth
23:38:08 <Quiznos> Jeremiah, jer-em-my-ah, Yerem-yah
23:38:23 <Quiznos> i forget what the `yerem' means
23:38:41 <Quiznos> Daniel; Dan-yel, `el' is one of God's names
23:38:50 <Raystm2> In an infinite universe with infinite uncertain possibilites, there must, somewhere exist God. I have to acknowledge, nay,  even profess to that logiic as anything else would be inconcievable because an infinite universe with out a God in it is not possible. It would be the only thing NOT in the universe. 
23:38:53 <Quiznos> and so in
23:39:10 <Quiznos> kool logic.
23:39:15 <I440r> i always say to ppl who do not believe in god
23:39:23 <Quiznos> he is outside 
23:39:27 <Quiznos> and within
23:40:22 <I440r> ok.... so in prehistoiry there was this puddle of mud blurp.  blurp.. with exactly the right chemicals, in exactly the right proportions at exactly the right temoperature and barometric pressure with EXACTLY the right planetary alighment
23:40:28 <I440r> and it went BLURP IM ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!
23:40:32 <I440r> and grew up to be you
23:40:39 <I440r> err.. yea... rite
23:40:56 <I440r> temperature dang i cant type lol
23:41:24 <I440r> just look at the EYE and tell me that was not engineered and ill call bullshit
23:41:35 <gogonkt> improving isForth.com?
23:41:44 <I440r> i am.  slowly
23:41:46 <Raystm2> my brother, a conservative moral majority right of right winger, does not believe that God exists in every particle of the infinite universe, that is if it is true that God is omni present. His wife even said "is god in a murderer" and I said yes. 
23:41:48 <Raystm2> Has to be.
23:41:50 <gogonkt> :)
23:42:16 <I440r> god is not a murderer. he might KILl but its not murder
23:42:28 <I440r> satan skews things big time
23:42:40 <I440r> "thou shalt not kill" is NOT the commandment
23:42:49 <Raystm2> Omni presance is being in everything and therefore you can not be disconnected to a God that is in omni presence in the aformentioned  universe.
23:42:52 <I440r> "thou shalt not commit murder" THAT is the commandment
23:43:25 <I440r> im not sure god is omni present. i believe he is omni aware. he is aware of everything everywhere]
23:43:36 <Raystm2> Thou art God. And so is everything you experience. 
23:44:06 <Raystm2> I must find that referance to omni presence. 
23:44:11 <Raystm2> If it IS true...
23:44:21 <I440r> you cannot be disassociated from god. 
23:44:29 <Raystm2> Then there is the tiniest possiblility that i am right. 
23:44:29 <I440r> except in death
23:44:56 <I440r> i do not believe i am a miniscule part of god. i dont think god is "everything"
23:45:07 <I440r> i think god is a separate entity that CREATED everything
23:45:23 <Raystm2> even in death you are present in the universe, no matter or energy destroyed. You containor can no longer contain you, but you incororate into your natural surroundings.
23:46:03 <Quiznos> in that same vein, "adultery" is not limited to the relationship of marriage; but the mixing together of things incompatible.
23:46:19 <Raystm2> The sun, one day, will recycle at least this portion of the Solar system.
23:46:29 <Quiznos> not bloody likely, scripturally :)
23:46:33 <I440r> yes, 
23:46:38 <I440r> ppl say nothing lasts forever
23:46:38 <Quiznos> nop
23:46:40 <I440r> thats wrong
23:46:45 <I440r> everything lasts for ever lol
23:46:52 <I440r> it just changes state
23:46:52 <Raystm2> Forever lasts forever.
23:46:56 <Quiznos> but not in this present sin-state
23:47:19 <Quiznos> as Peter wrote; the whole of creation shall be renewed/refreshed
23:47:27 <I440r> HELL is non existance. its not a firey prison for sinners
23:47:31 <Raystm2> Someday even every particle will stop moving, that is if it is not somehow all collected in to several or even one singularity.
23:47:39 <Quiznos> i440r that's wrong too 
23:47:46 <Quiznos> Raystm2 nop
23:47:53 <Raystm2> Your turn :)
23:47:54 <I440r> to exist is why god created us. if we do not deserve to exist god will not allow us to continue to exist
23:47:57 <Quiznos> there are no straight lines in space.
23:48:06 <I440r> there are no straight lines PERIOD lol
23:48:09 <Raystm2> all lines cross.
23:48:12 <Quiznos> wrong; god doesnt detroy his creations
23:48:21 <I440r> we have such a small understanding.
23:48:28 <Quiznos> else lucifer wouldnt exist.
23:48:30 <I440r> i believe he does
23:48:34 <Raystm2> We can't speak for God.
23:48:43 <Quiznos> no he doesnt destroy
23:48:47 <I440r> lucifer will be destroyed
23:48:51 <Quiznos> no he wont
23:48:59 <Raystm2> Right no energy or matter is destroyed. 
23:49:02 <Quiznos> choose your words carefully.
23:49:25 <I440r> to consign a living enttity to infinite punishment is cruel beyond measure
23:49:28 <I440r> god would never do that
23:49:36 <Quiznos> Satan wil be arrested, convicted again (in appeal process now) then adjudged, and finally imprisoned
23:49:57 <I440r> no i dont believe the bible says that
23:50:07 <Quiznos> there was a trial in heaven, lucifer ajudged; he appealed.
23:50:08 <Raystm2> Is there Satan in the bible?
23:50:11 <Quiznos> yes
23:50:23 <Raystm2> Sounds like a dumb question I know but...
23:50:23 <I440r> when jesus comes next it will be with a sword in his hand. jesus did NOT come to bring peace
23:50:25 <Quiznos> I440r pisces means witnesses; who are witnesses?
23:50:30 <Quiznos> that's incorrect.
23:50:40 <Quiznos> the sword is in his mouth; it's the word of God
23:50:51 <Quiznos> not a literal cutting instrument
23:51:06 <Quiznos> it's a symbol reference
23:51:19 <I440r> hmmm. ill defer arguement till i have studied more :)
23:51:22 <Quiznos> ok
23:51:31 <Quiznos> ref is in Heb.
23:51:36 <I440r> but i think eternal punishment is cruel. something god is not
23:51:38 <Quiznos> iinm
23:51:58 <Quiznos> that's what lucifer essentially asked as his appeal
23:52:14 <I440r> where in the bible is that?
23:52:14 <Quiznos> you dint answer my last query
23:52:20 <Quiznos> I440r pisces means witnesses; who are witnesses?
23:52:28 <I440r> hmmm
23:52:30 <I440r> US ?
23:52:48 <I440r> a whitness isnt "an observer" its more like a teacher?
23:52:49 <Quiznos> is what?  it's a conclusion to Lucifer's eviction.
23:53:02 <Quiznos> no; a witness is one who saw some event and retells it
23:53:09 <Raystm2> The church and the people are cruel, for sure. If it wasn't for Quaker penal theory or redemtion, we'd still be a burnin and a hangin.
23:53:18 <Quiznos> lol
23:53:21 <Raystm2> or = of
23:53:49 <I440r> raystem2 no not after what happened in salem
23:54:06 <Quiznos> I440r the biggest prob we students have is that we dont know the meaning of words used in the text; or why they were chosen in translating the hebrew and greek
23:54:17 <Quiznos> there's alot of obfuscation going on, esp in the kjv.
23:54:29 <I440r> you DO know the witch hunts are why american law converted from GUILTY until proven innocent to innocent until proven guilty because of the salem witch hunts?
23:54:42 <Quiznos> not specifically
23:54:45 <Quiznos> tell
23:55:01 <Raystm2> Salem was late 1600's and Quaker Penal Redemtion theory didn't really catch on until the building of the prison system in the mid to late 1800's.
23:55:02 <I440r> Quiznos, which is why we must study the word of god and associate wtih other people who have studied it
23:55:07 <I440r> seek and ye shal find
23:55:11 <schme> what on earth 
23:55:22 <I440r> if you HONESTLY seek good god will see to it that you learn the truth
23:55:23 <Quiznos> heh schme 
23:55:27 <Quiznos> sure I440r 
23:55:29 <schme>  #forth has turned into #relgious-nuthouse ?
23:55:35 <Quiznos> nah
23:55:35 <I440r> yes!
23:55:38 * Raystm2 agrees with translation probs. of all kinds
23:55:40 <schme> shit
23:55:43 <I440r> im a gun nut and a GOD nut
23:55:54 <I440r> im a gun nut because there are too many nuts with guns
23:55:57 <Quiznos> Raystm2 that is the only problem with the texts and rightly dividing it
23:56:04 <Raystm2> lol #schme :)
23:56:07 <I440r> and a god nut because there are too many ungodly people in this world :P
23:56:14 <schme> I440r: That's my love/hate relationship with the USoA. You have sane gun laws. But also you seem to have so many religious people. Like atleast one in each town.
23:56:28 <schme> scares the shit out of me, to be honest.
23:56:36 <Quiznos> why schme?
23:56:37 <schme> But carry on!
23:56:45 <Quiznos> what scares you?
23:56:50 <I440r> schme, being god fearing is GOOD
23:57:06 <Quiznos> fear sux and prevents sane people from making reasonable and informed decisions.
23:57:08 <I440r> schme, where are you located again?
23:57:13 <Raystm2> the gun law is to protect the idea that idiots will kill themselves usually in there own cultures. That and cheap alcohol combine to keep some populations in check. 
23:57:18 <Raystm2> or so it seems
23:57:28 <Quiznos> heh
23:57:52 <schme> Quiznos: What scares me is that people are reading a pretty crappy fantasy novel and believing it is real.  If people were running around believing discworld was real I'm pretty sure they'd get locked up.
23:57:55 <Quiznos> but "fearing god" actually means showing reverence for him, it's not fear as we usually speak of fear.
23:57:57 <I440r> Raystm2, have you ever read "a nation of cowards" ?
23:57:59 <I440r> google it
23:58:09 <schme> I440r: I'm not fearing "god", I'm fearing people who believe the bible to be some truth.
23:58:09 <I440r> He that suffers his life to be taken from him by one that hath no authority for that purpose, when he might preserve it by defense, incurs the Guilt of self murder since God hath enjoined him to seek the continuance of his life, and Nature itself teaches every creature to defend itself. 
23:58:11 <Quiznos> schme have you ever tested what is written in the book?
23:58:14 <schme> I440r: I am located in Sweden.
23:58:21 <Quiznos> that explains it all.
23:58:27 <Quiznos> he's a european.
23:58:35 <Quiznos> they've all left their first love.
23:58:36 <I440r> schme, nice place to live. sweeden and norway are some of the most beautiful places on earth :)
23:58:41 <I440r> but too expensive bleh
23:58:50 <I440r> heh
23:59:00 <schme> Well I dunno. Sweden is kinda beautiful up north. down here in the south it is mostly just.. wheat being grown.
23:59:12 <Quiznos> is it GMO wheat?
23:59:16 <Raystm2> God wasn't invented in the US, but the franchies took off pretty good because of education. 
23:59:25 <schme> Quiznos: I'm pretty sure a lot of it is.
23:59:29 <Quiznos> ew
23:59:31 <Quiznos> ok
23:59:39 <I440r> thats from a sermon from 1747 that equates failure to defend your life with SUICIDE
23:59:47 <Quiznos> interesting
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/09.09.19