00:00:00 --- log: started forth/09.06.09 01:20:08 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:24:04 --- join: proteusguy (n=proteusg@61.7.144.97) joined #forth 02:06:55 --- join: tihonov (n=kef@kefeer2.convex.ru) joined #forth 02:17:08 --- quit: nighty__ (Client Quit) 02:40:34 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.forth/browse_thread/thread/05ca8862941ad9e8 02:41:28 looked at Factor? 02:50:07 yep 02:51:06 i have asked on factor channel but seems everyone offline now 02:53:15 As far as i can remember they use dependency tree to compile words (at least when you change word definition all words using it are recompiled) 02:58:23 seems unforth'ish to me. but I'm a forth newbie and still appreciating the forth way :) 03:05:15 :) 03:05:27 why you are going Forth? 03:08:00 mostly just interested in the language and programming without an operating system 03:10:07 yeah i am thinking to buy pda/smartphone which will allow me to put forth on bare metal :) 03:10:23 olpc xo already has it on bare metal 03:11:48 it's not easy to get them here, in Russia 03:13:12 you can boot the same forth system on a PC via BIOS if you want btw http://www.openfirmware.info/Open_Firmware 03:14:20 i am making forth implementation for touchscreen-only systems now that's why i want pda 03:16:25 sounds like fun 03:26:53 by the way, in smalltalk the trick is that they do the dictionary lookup at runtime, not compile time. 03:30:45 not exactly there is a lot of optimizations done by compiler but the trick is that they use first-class code (blocks) instead of macros 03:31:34 factor is going this way too as far as i can see 03:37:08 I think you're wrong about Smalltalk - Squeak's compiler is not doing very much - but won't argue with you :) 03:40:04 hehe :) 03:40:31 are you programming in squeak? 03:50:46 sometimes, not a whole lot. (dinner time) 05:30:59 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:32:42 --- join: proteusguy (n=proteusg@61.7.144.97) joined #forth 05:53:50 --- join: gnomon (n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 06:08:08 --- quit: tihonov (Client Quit) 06:32:28 --- join: gihgi (n=irc@bzq-79-178-117-110.red.bezeqint.net) joined #forth 06:33:25 --- quit: gihgi (Client Quit) 07:38:04 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote closed the connection) 07:38:56 --- join: proteusguy (n=proteusg@61.7.144.97) joined #forth 08:10:31 --- quit: madgarden (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:16:41 --- join: GeDaMo (n=gedamo@dyn-62-56-115-125.dslaccess.co.uk) joined #forth 09:27:01 --- join: tgunr (n=davec@polymicro.net) joined #forth 09:36:28 --- join: regnirps (n=regnirps@98.125.165.173) joined #forth 09:42:46 Good news everyone! The sun came up again. 09:43:02 Any ARM7/ARM9 Forth interest here? 09:43:28 ANy old SIlicon Valley FIG people hanging out? 09:44:12 I need to get something going on my hardware www.andahammer.com 09:59:57 I did some forth on arm7 (lpc21xx) last year 09:59:59 (hi) 10:06:31 I believe that there's a tool called Panda Forth that will let you write ARM7 Forth as long as your Nintendo DS is tethered to a workstation. 10:06:38 There's also Pygmy Forth, of course 10:15:01 huh. I didn't realize there was Pygmy for ARM 10:15:12 I thought it was just an old DOS thing 10:17:07 More specifically, it's called Riscy Pygness. 10:17:18 http://pygmy.utoh.org/riscy/index.html 10:18:17 Yeah, I found it 10:18:39 Interesting that he uses lisp for it 10:20:17 Isn't it, though? 10:20:23 * gnomon waits for lukego to read the entire thing 10:22:55 hmm...the source is about 267 KiB, so that might take a few minutes 10:23:25 :) 10:23:29 I'm guessing about 10. Maybe 15, if he gets distracted by lunch or something. 10:29:09 gnomon: looks interesting, will bookmark :) 10:29:53 regbirps: how old you looking for, I was around in 78 10:30:30 regnirps: that is 10:32:13 --- join: kar8nga (n=kar8nga@e-167.vc-graz.ac.at) joined #forth 10:33:03 hmm, interesting. He uses a primitive/colon-def flag and puts the docolon code in the inner interpreter instead of in each word. 10:55:28 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:13:23 --- join: I440r (n=mark4__@ip70-162-227-36.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #forth 11:23:17 --- quit: kar8nga (Remote closed the connection) 11:34:30 --- join: impomatic (n=John@nat67.mia.three.co.uk) joined #forth 12:21:13 I was using in '78 and was with Mountain VIew Press in 83-85 then Information Appliance and Apple. 12:21:44 In 78 I had FIG on an OSI 6502 system in a physical chem research lab. 12:23:15 But I learned the most on the AIM-65 Forth. Dave Boulton and John Bumgarner I believe with tech support at Rockwell by a guy named Gordy Smith IIRC. 12:23:59 They wrote a great user manual. 12:24:58 I will take a look at riscy pygness. I have stayed away from the Pygmy. 12:25:00 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:25:29 All recent work (last 10 years or so) was Mops and Win32Forth. 12:27:33 I have the basics of a nice efficient ITC Forth for ARM based on my old MVP Forth and have to fix it up to be ANSI to compile the Mops/Yerk OO code from Mike Hore. 12:29:13 My ARM9 systems have MMU and 64 MBytes of RAM so it can be as big as I want and have all the bells and whistles with garbage collection and the whole show. 12:30:04 That sounds pretty shiny, regnirps. 12:30:22 I'm trying to lure Stephen Pelc into doing something that runs under the Linux or Windows CE or bare metal. 12:30:28 www.andahammer.com 12:31:54 --- join: proteusguy (n=proteusg@61.7.144.97) joined #forth 12:32:39 We are heading towards 500 units a month or so by September. That might get some interest in the platform. 13:44:21 --- join: rebolyte (n=James@204.228.226.16) joined #forth 13:53:10 --- join: tihonov (n=kef@kefeer2.convex.ru) joined #forth 13:54:39 Anyway, (good lunch), I would rather be twiddling bits with Forth than C or C++ any day. 13:55:09 After all the config files and condition compilation in Linux code I CRAVE Forth! 13:56:10 What is the main interest on this chammel? 14:21:26 regnirps: I know both those gutys and work with John at Apple 14:22:23 I started and managed the Open Firmware dept at Apple for about 10 years, had John Hall, Dennis Ruffer on my team 14:24:14 --- quit: impomatic (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:39:00 --- quit: tihonov (Client Quit) 14:52:55 --- quit: GeDaMo ("Leaving.") 15:42:56 --- quit: rebolyte (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:43:16 --- join: rebolyte (n=James@204.228.226.16) joined #forth 15:47:45 --- quit: rebolyte () 15:55:18 --- join: madgarden (n=madgarde@CPE001d7e527f89-CM00159a65a870.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 17:09:52 --- join: nighty__ (n=nighty@210.188.173.245) joined #forth 17:25:48 I interviewed with, whi was it? Mitch Bradly? at SUN when he started open boot there. 17:26:36 You probably know Mino Taoyama and Paul Baker. We all worked together at IAI. 17:30:04 So the Bay Area FIG crowd actually found legitimate work? Amazing. But Open Firmware is no longer used, is that right? 17:42:26 --- join: crc (n=charlesc@c-68-80-139-0.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 17:50:23 --- join: gogonkt_ (n=info@58.248.188.178) joined #forth 18:02:44 --- quit: gogonkt (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:15:26 Open Firmware is being used on the One Laptop Per Child machine and it's opened-sourced now (http://www.openfirmware.info/Open_Firmware) 19:17:16 I have just started working with Mitch Bradley on openfirmware hacking at OLPC, he is Forth'ing at a million miles an hour 19:18:26 (oh you were probably talking about the Apple openfirmware. I should drink coffee before reading morning scrollback :) 19:43:04 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:44:04 --- join: proteusguy (n=proteusg@61.7.144.97) joined #forth 20:03:51 --- quit: crc (Client Quit) 20:42:05 --- join: jdrake (n=jdrake@173.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 20:42:39 There was a guy named kc5jt or something like that who used to hang around here right? 20:57:59 I was thinking yesterday that OLPC is probably dead with the new Linux Android ARM netbooks from ACER and a dozen others. 20:58:36 They are aiming at $100 20:59:23 --- join: adu (n=ajr@pool-173-79-52-2.washdc.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 21:00:45 not the first time they'll be probably dead :) 21:03:04 True enough. 21:04:28 But commercial success will drive prices down and performance and applications up. 21:04:46 Remember what happened to the OCPF. 21:05:31 The One Car Per Family Soviet two cycle smoke belcher. 21:06:21 Anyway it is an old debate and I have no track record predicting the future. 21:08:03 Otherwise I would have kept my Apple stock a lot longer and I wouldn't be stuck here on 10 acres with 400 feet of waterfront on Puget Sound :D 21:32:57 hi 21:43:21 --- join: adu_ (n=ajr@pool-173-66-5-152.washdc.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 21:55:25 --- quit: adu (Nick collision from services.) 22:00:09 --- quit: adu_ (Client Quit) 22:01:00 --- join: adu (n=ajr@pool-173-66-5-152.washdc.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 22:02:19 --- part: adu left #forth 22:58:04 --- quit: jdrake () 23:14:18 --- join: kar8nga (n=kar8nga@e-79.vc-graz.ac.at) joined #forth 23:32:29 --- join: proteusguy_ (n=proteusg@61.7.144.97) joined #forth 23:32:48 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23:57:29 --- quit: kar8nga (Remote closed the connection) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/09.06.09