00:00:00 --- log: started forth/09.05.05
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01:38:32 <somalipirate_fer> is it possible to build desktop gui with gforth or another free forth fairly easily?
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01:41:13 <ygrek> which desktop?
01:42:24 <busty_shemale> say x windows on opensolaris
01:42:53 <busty_shemale> has anyone done a gui without using x windows using forth only?
01:43:03 <busty_shemale> cmpletely replacing x windows?
01:43:08 <busty_shemale> with somethign forthish
01:43:20 <busty_shemale> love to see that for gforth
01:43:34 <busty_shemale> that would rock, i winder if framebuffer would do it somehow
01:45:38 <ygrek> I don't see any sense in doing that
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08:05:54 <andrewSC> hi all
08:05:56 <tathi> hey
08:05:59 <andrewSC> :)
08:06:04 <dkcl> Moin.
08:06:42 <andrewSC> anyone played with Occam2 before?
08:07:31 <tathi> not me
08:07:42 <andrewSC> haha k
08:08:06 <andrewSC> yeah i suspect not too many people have played with occam seeing as it was written for the transputer only..
08:08:52 <andrewSC> and the damn university of kent @ Cambridge has a private internal irc chat for occam which is where it's currently being developed for research but i can't get in
08:08:54 <andrewSC> lol
08:09:03 * andrewSC * steps off soapbox *
08:09:07 <andrewSC> anyways
08:09:23 <tathi> you never know... I think some of the folks on comp.lang.forth have played with transputers
08:09:30 <andrewSC> mhmm
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08:11:20 <andrewSC> :)
08:11:24 <andrewSC> i got three books
08:11:31 <andrewSC> i'll try my best and muster this one out
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09:06:05 <andrewSC> man the output is real screwey 
09:06:24 <andrewSC> like i get how to do stuff but outputting to terminal is the weirdest thing..
09:17:38 <TreyB> Think serial-connected terminal, and you'll get it.
09:30:25 <andrewSC> yeah
09:30:30 <andrewSC> thanks TreyB 
09:30:40 <andrewSC> have you done any Occam yourself?
09:52:52 <TreyB> Nope, although I looked into Transputers as a numerical modeling platform back in '87 or so.  We just didn't have the budget for them.
10:04:11 <andrewSC> gotcah
10:04:15 <andrewSC> gotcha*
10:04:55 <dkcl> Will someone comfort me by saying that Forth is still a sane choice for OS development?
10:05:43 <GeDaMo> dkcl: of course it is :P
10:09:51 <andrewSC> :)
10:12:09 * dkcl is relieved.
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13:23:21 <andrewSC> apparently my ISP has been giving me intermittent service..
13:24:16 <gnomon> Have you considered giving them intermittent payments?
13:24:32 <andrewSC> yeah, they don't take it as well as i do..
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14:47:53 <ENKI-][> this is slightly off-topic, but kind of on topic because i plan to run forth on this
14:47:55 <ENKI-][> but
14:48:08 <ENKI-][> http://namcub.accela-labs.com/pics/simplewearable.png <-- i think i have the lcd power wired backwards here. do i?
14:48:14 <ENKI-][> if anyone knows about digital electronics
14:51:02 <andrewSC> oh man
14:51:26 <andrewSC> i had to withdraw from my digital logic class :\
14:51:35 <andrewSC> we did alot of circuit stuff
14:51:42 <andrewSC> and gates
14:51:45 <andrewSC> mux
14:51:46 <andrewSC> etc
14:52:12 <ENKI-][> ah
14:52:27 <ENKI-][> mostly i just want to know if VCC goes to the negative terminal or the positive
14:52:33 <ENKI-][> i can do the digital logic stuff just fine
14:53:28 <andrewSC> :)
14:54:04 <andrewSC> i asked an EE friend of mine and he said it is wired backwards
14:54:16 <andrewSC> Vss should go to the lower potental
14:54:18 <ENKI-][> okay
14:54:21 <ENKI-][> thanks :-)
14:54:28 <andrewSC> no problem
14:57:53 <ENKI-][> okay, fixed :-)
15:03:00 <andrewSC> :)
15:06:02 <ENKI-][> as far as schematics go, this is a super-simple one
15:06:26 <ENKI-][> using a bit-paired chording keyboard for input, inputting ascii directly pretty much
15:06:56 <ENKI-][> but i am unsure if the chip i'm using will be able to run forth particularly well.
15:07:07 <ENKI-][> 4k flash, 512b ram, 512b eeprom
15:09:14 <andrewSC> ouch
15:09:44 <andrewSC> what is the application of this ?
15:09:48 <andrewSC> for fun?
15:10:11 <ENKI-][> for fun.
15:10:56 <ENKI-][> if it doesn't run forth, i can stick something else on it.
15:11:09 <ENKI-][> like brainfuck maybe
15:11:17 <gnomon> Hey now
15:11:20 <gnomon> That's crazy talk
15:11:22 <gnomon> CRAZY
15:11:24 <ENKI-][> :P
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15:16:34 <dkcl> If it doesn't run Forth, write a Forth for it.
15:17:10 <gnomon> s/write a Forth for/port an existing Forth to/
15:17:27 <dkcl> Or that.
15:18:52 <gnomon> It is difficult to resist writing a Forth  :)
15:19:10 <ENKI-][> dkcl: that's actually my plan. i think i probably know enough forth to write something forth-ish, and i plan to try to go by the standard at least
15:19:29 <ENKI-][> dkcl: i'm just not sure if i'll have enough stack space with only 512 bytes of working memory :P
15:19:29 <dkcl> gnomon: What's wrong with writing a Forth?
15:19:39 <dkcl> ENKI-][: Wow, that's pretty small.
15:20:28 <gnomon> dkcl, nothing!  There's something wrong with writing your own Forth that other people may be forced to use, though, rather than contributing to an existing, mature, well-documented Forth system, if such a thing is available for your target platform.
15:20:33 <ENKI-][> dkcl: well, it's harvard architecture rather than von neumann architecture. the forth implementation would be in flash
15:21:02 <dkcl> gnomon: I agree. But, when you're designing a new platform...
15:21:11 <dkcl> ENKI-][: Nice.
15:21:22 <ENKI-][> gnomon: nobody but me is going to be willing to write forth by typing via putting in ascii in 8 momentary pushbutton switches.
15:22:31 <gnomon> ENKI-][, I think you underestimate the pervesity of the people in this channel!
15:22:48 <ENKI-][> :-)
15:23:02 <ENKI-][> well, if somebody else wants to write the forth for it :P
15:23:09 <ENKI-][> you've got the schematics right there
15:23:28 <dkcl> Heh, I'm sure my partner would love to do some mental masturbation on that.
15:23:45 <gnomon> Eeeeeew
15:23:51 <dkcl> Not literally.
15:24:00 <ENKI-][> i should teach my gf forth...
15:24:01 <gnomon> Sure, _now_ you backpedal.
15:24:08 <ENKI-][> i've been teaching her lua
15:24:36 <gnomon> Aw, that's so sweet: pair programming by moonlight!
15:25:33 <ENKI-][> mm. assuming she starts again. she's been super busy, and i think she's kind of pissed off at me atm.
15:26:29 <gnomon> Why, did you introduce her to Lua filesystem operations?  That's enough to piss off pretty much anyone.
15:26:43 <ENKI-][> :P
15:26:46 <ENKI-][> i didn't.
15:27:30 <dkcl> I meant "business partner" anyway.
15:27:51 <ENKI-][> i think it's just because for a broke college student one week away from finals i'm surprisingly clingy and we are both too sleep-deprived to be civil but i try anyway
15:28:29 <ENKI-][> she also was just given the dreaded op job that i rejected.
15:28:41 <ENKI-][> i give her a week before she quits or gets herself deopped
15:28:56 <ENKI-][> or takes my advice and solves a flamewar by opping all the worst offenders
15:29:30 <dkcl> Can't do that on USENET.
15:29:35 <dkcl> Or mailing lists.
15:30:03 <ENKI-][> this is on irc though.
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15:30:06 <gnomon> Sure you can: s/op/give root on the listserv box/
15:30:08 <ENKI-][> she's not even getting paid.
15:30:41 <dkcl> gnomon: Now, that's an overkill. :P
15:31:51 <gnomon> dkcl, hee hee hee.
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15:56:00 <tathi> gnomon: there are existing, mature, well-documented Forth systems? :)
15:56:14 <gnomon> Quiet, you  ;)
15:56:24 * gnomon grins
15:56:50 <tathi> actually gforth is decent except that the build system is complex.
15:57:23 <tathi> But I've been trying out other systems and I'm constantly surprised by how bad they are... :(
15:57:39 <gnomon> Have you checked out Pygmy Forth?
15:58:19 <tathi> No...I thought it was ancient
15:58:33 <tathi> Actually, I think I have a copy, but I haven't looked at it yet
16:00:02 <gnomon> If I'm remembering the name correctly, it's very neat.
16:00:09 <gnomon> And I liked the parts of kforth that I saw.
16:00:14 <tathi> kforth is interesting
16:00:27 <tathi> I like the compile-only model
16:00:38 <gnomon> I really appreciate the documentation for that system, too.
16:00:42 <tathi> I wish he had implemented HERE and , and so on though...it really wouldn't be that hard.
16:02:10 <tathi> and not having them means there is lots of code that won't work without modification
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