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01:00:13 <schme> boing boing
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10:28:05 <andrewSC> hi all
10:28:06 <andrewSC> :)
10:28:37 <GeDaMo> Hi :)
10:28:54 <dkcl> Moin.
10:29:37 <schme> hi hi
10:30:56 <dkcl> No te veo. :/
10:31:01 <dkcl> Oops, wrong channel.
10:31:30 <schme> What is that?
10:31:33 * schme is curious.
10:31:44 <andrewSC> lol
10:31:49 <dkcl> Spanish for "I can't see you".
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10:31:54 <andrewSC> hahah
10:31:55 <schme> Oh ok :)
10:33:44 <andrewSC> pero puedo ver ti
10:33:47 <andrewSC> :)
10:33:51 <andrewSC> lol oh man 
10:33:53 <andrewSC> focus.
10:33:54 <dkcl> Pero yo puedo verte (a ti). *
10:34:00 <dkcl> Sorry, I'm a grammar nazi in every single language I speak.
10:34:14 <andrewSC> haha quite alright
10:34:17 <schme> Stackars sate :(
10:34:19 <paniko> hi
10:34:36 <GeDaMo> Hi :)
10:34:43 <andrewSC> i'm not fluent in Spanish and that was from google translate dkcl :)
10:34:56 <andrewSC> just thought it amusing
10:34:59 <dkcl> andrewSC: Yeah, I figured. That doesn't mean it should be left incorrect, however. :)
10:35:02 <andrewSC> slightly creepy, but amusing
10:35:06 <andrewSC> indeed
10:35:09 <andrewSC> :)
10:35:29 <paniko> dkcl: i see you... :-)
10:36:01 <GeDaMo> andrewSC: did you make any progress with your program?
10:36:06 <andrewSC> ohhhh
10:36:16 <andrewSC> a fair amount GeDaMo 
10:36:24 <andrewSC> tathi helped me clean it up
10:36:29 <andrewSC> but i'm still having some problems
10:36:38 <andrewSC> right now i'm just trying to clean it up a little bit more
10:36:39 <andrewSC> :)
10:36:57 <andrewSC> i also introduced structs so it's a bit easier to read
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10:48:22 <andrewSC> hmm
10:48:39 <andrewSC> to set an initial condition i just need to put that value on the stack right?
10:48:58 <andrewSC> then when my function loads i should manipulate the stack to get that initial condition
10:49:50 <andrewSC> well
10:49:52 <andrewSC> actually
10:49:58 <GeDaMo> That question is kind of ... vague :P
10:50:18 <andrewSC> haha
10:50:40 <andrewSC> i'm just trying to think of how to compare the first node height
10:50:50 <andrewSC> if that makes sense..
10:50:54 <andrewSC> if i'm given the root
10:51:00 <andrewSC> what do i compare it's height to?
10:51:47 <GeDaMo> I thought you were processing the children before the node value
10:52:08 <andrewSC> i'm not sure if that's a good idea..
10:52:27 <andrewSC> also, i can't really wrap my mind around that kind of a structure..
10:55:06 <GeDaMo> Can you describe the algorithm again?
10:55:28 <andrewSC> sure
10:55:42 <andrewSC> your given a tree with n number of nodes
10:56:00 <andrewSC> each node has a height, weight, leftnode, and rightnode value
10:56:17 <andrewSC> to get the total-height of the tree
10:56:25 <andrewSC> you need to find the node with the largest height value
10:56:34 <andrewSC> then traverse from that node back to the root
10:57:10 <andrewSC> adding the height of each node in the traversals path to the total height
10:57:41 <GeDaMo> So you're not using the weight?
10:57:57 <andrewSC> right
10:58:51 <andrewSC> if you did the recursion in the beginning and had the if statement after the two recursive calls.. I don't really understand how the comparison would work.
10:58:57 <GeDaMo> So it's something like   visit-left visit-right select-largest add
10:59:12 <andrewSC> basically
10:59:32 <andrewSC> but you need to find the largest height value in the entire tree
10:59:39 <andrewSC> so you have to compare nodes
10:59:53 <GeDaMo> That's what the select-largest is for
10:59:54 <andrewSC> would you need a variable for that?
11:00:04 <andrewSC> ah
11:01:44 <GeDaMo> : compute-height  dup 0= if 0 nip else dup left @ recurse over right @ recurse max swap value @ + then ;
11:01:53 <GeDaMo> Or something like that
11:02:38 <andrewSC> mhmmm
11:03:12 <andrewSC> is max a defined word?
11:03:26 <GeDaMo> Hmmm ... not sure
11:03:42 <andrewSC> yeah i'm looking it up now :)
11:03:50 <GeDaMo> : max 2dup > if drop else nip then ;
11:04:33 <andrewSC> hmmmm
11:05:10 <GeDaMo> I've just realised I don't need the "0 nip" becuase it only gets there if the value on top of the stack is 0 :P
11:05:54 <andrewSC> haha
11:05:55 <andrewSC> yeah
11:05:59 <andrewSC> i changed it to
11:06:09 <andrewSC> dup if dup leftnode @ 
11:06:10 <andrewSC> etc..
11:11:02 <andrewSC> excellent :)
11:11:42 <andrewSC> http://codepad.org/ONfMYtRJ
11:11:54 <andrewSC> thanks GeDaMo 
11:12:04 <GeDaMo> Does it work?
11:12:12 <andrewSC> works well
11:12:30 <andrewSC> i've changed some numbers and it calculated properly
11:12:46 <andrewSC> :)
11:12:57 <GeDaMo> Functions over trees generally follow the same pattern
11:13:32 <andrewSC> mhm
11:14:34 <GeDaMo> With a bit of thought you could probably come up with a meta function for it
11:15:34 <andrewSC> meta functions?
11:15:44 <GeDaMo> Like map or fold over lists
11:17:59 <andrewSC> mhmm
11:21:14 <andrewSC> GeDaMo, how often do you do metaprogramming in a work enviroment?
11:21:26 <andrewSC> environment*
11:21:41 <GeDaMo> Me, personally? Not much - I'm unemployed :P
11:22:23 <andrewSC> ahhh ok
11:22:35 <andrewSC> do you use forth alot in general?
11:22:43 <andrewSC> say more than C/C++?
11:23:22 <GeDaMo> I played around with Forth a lot a few years back, not so much recently
11:23:46 <GeDaMo> http://www.forthfreak.net/index.cgi?FunForth
11:24:16 <andrewSC> is that your code?
11:24:23 <GeDaMo> That's something I wrote a few years ago
11:24:29 <andrewSC> nice :)
11:27:14 <GeDaMo> Hmmm ... 2004
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11:54:39 <andrewSC> GeDaMo, what's wrong with this piece of code?
11:54:45 <andrewSC> dup if dup weight @ over leftnode @ recurse ( left ) + then ; 
11:55:02 <andrewSC> i'm simply trying to sum the weights of the left part of the tree
11:55:40 <GeDaMo> You haven't supplied the value for when the tree is empty
11:55:54 <GeDaMo> else 0 then
11:56:05 <andrewSC> mhmm..
11:56:34 <andrewSC> i mean the code runs, but i don't get the expected output.. 
11:56:41 <andrewSC> i'll add that in now though..
11:57:07 <GeDaMo> Actually, I'm wrong
11:57:12 <GeDaMo> Ignore me :P
11:57:13 <andrewSC> lol
11:58:34 <andrewSC> seems that all the addresses that line actually got were zeros
11:58:34 <GeDaMo> You should replace over with swap but that should affect the result
11:59:17 <andrewSC> i thought about that but like you said that shouldn't matter..
12:01:23 <GeDaMo> Actually, it will affect the result
12:01:55 <andrewSC> oh really?
12:01:56 <andrewSC> how so?
12:02:54 <andrewSC> that actually fixed it aswell..
12:02:58 <GeDaMo> Every level you go down, leaves an extra value on the stack above the weight
12:03:19 <andrewSC> because over takes the 2nd value from the top and duplicates it
12:03:25 <andrewSC> ahhh ok
12:09:43 <andrewSC> when using recursion and the if then statement GeDaMo, will anything after the then statement get executed during recursion?
12:10:00 <andrewSC> or only after recursion has finished
12:10:32 <GeDaMo> It gets executed at every level of recursion
12:10:36 <andrewSC> ahh ok
12:10:38 <andrewSC> thanks
12:11:20 <andrewSC> is there a way to seperate the code that needs recursion from the code that doesn't?
12:19:22 <GeDaMo> Like what?
12:19:41 <gnomon> A line of dashes?
12:20:15 <andrewSC> dup if dup weight @ swap rightnode @ recurse ( right ) + then root rightnode @ rightstrut @ *
12:20:18 <andrewSC> after the then
12:20:25 <andrewSC> i don't want that code to be recursive
12:20:28 <andrewSC> it should only execute once
12:20:44 <GeDaMo> Put it in a separate word
12:21:01 <andrewSC> i tried but that word get's called and still gives the same value
12:21:24 <GeDaMo> No, I mean put it in a word which calls your recursive word
12:21:29 <andrewSC> ohhh
12:21:30 <andrewSC> ok
12:24:34 <andrewSC> excellent! it works :)
12:24:44 <andrewSC> thanks for the help GeDaMo 
12:24:51 <andrewSC> :)
12:25:00 <andrewSC> i'm gonna go now afk..
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14:01:03 <JasonPx> Double-length Variables and Constants just holds more right?
14:02:18 <GeDaMo> Two cells instead of one
14:14:15 <JasonPx> how od i retrieve the pair values? i can only obtain the last one
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14:16:48 <GeDaMo> How are you retrieving?
14:19:30 <GeDaMo> If you're using 2variable to create the variable, store with 2!, fetch with 2@
14:19:49 <dkcl> This channel is great for grepping. :)
14:20:10 <gnomon> If you're looking to "split" the value into its two component parts, there's no need: just retrieve the two parts one at a time. There's nothing special that binds the two values together.
14:22:23 <JasonPx> gedamo: whoops i just stored wrong
14:23:04 <GeDaMo> :)
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14:54:15 <JasonPx> if my stack contain 1 '+.. how can i append it together to 1+ ?
14:54:23 <JasonPx> what will be the appraoch for this?
14:56:57 <GeDaMo> What's on the stack? A constant and an execution token?
14:58:23 <GeDaMo> Do you want to create a function or just execute?
15:11:28 <GeDaMo> JasonPx: this is one way  : combine: create swap , , does> dup @ swap cell+ @ execute ;
15:11:45 <GeDaMo> 1 ' + combine: my1+   5 my1+ .
15:22:05 <andrewSC> :)
15:22:35 <andrewSC> Hi JasonPx, :)
15:22:43 <JasonPx> geDamo: sorry was away. im still trying to understand your code.
15:22:45 <JasonPx> hey
15:23:36 <andrewSC> i liked your presentation on Wed. :)
15:24:18 <GeDaMo> It creates a word and stores the constant and xt, the does> part fetches them and executes
15:24:20 <JasonPx> thanks, though i think i mess up big time
15:24:24 <andrewSC> hahah
15:24:44 <JasonPx> gedamo: what does  , do?
15:24:50 <andrewSC> nah it was rough but i think the professor was like "Yeah his partner dropped"
15:25:05 <GeDaMo> stores the value on top of the stack into the dictionary
15:25:39 <andrewSC> indeed
15:25:41 <andrewSC> :)
15:25:49 <andrewSC> JasonPx, what are you doing?
15:25:51 <andrewSC> mobiles?
15:26:21 <JasonPx> the first one. (seems easy to implement but dont know the syntax and forth approach for it)
15:26:30 <andrewSC> ahh
15:27:04 <andrewSC> JasonPx, check this link out http://www.forth.com/starting-forth/sf1/sf1.html
15:27:12 <andrewSC> on the right hand side you'll see links
15:27:19 <andrewSC> like different chapters
15:27:20 <andrewSC> etc
15:27:27 <JasonPx> andrewSC: yea im up to sf10 now
15:27:30 <andrewSC> that really helped me with learning the syntax
15:27:33 <andrewSC> nice
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15:47:35 <tathi> andrewSC: JasonPx: so you guys are both taking the same course at a college somewhere?
15:47:44 <andrewSC> tathi, that's correct
15:47:47 <andrewSC> :)
15:47:57 <JasonPx> and a coincidence that we're in the same irc channel
15:48:02 <andrewSC> yeah
15:48:18 <tathi> Well, this is pretty much it as far as Forth irc channels go :)
15:48:23 <JasonPx> hahahahahah
15:48:51 <tathi> But I dunno how many college students use irc anymore.
15:48:56 <andrewSC> haha
15:48:59 <andrewSC> indeed
15:49:25 <andrewSC> i like irc i used to be an Op for an old channel that did XDCC transfers..
15:49:27 <JasonPx> we're cs majors..so yeah..
15:49:28 <andrewSC> fun stuff
15:49:38 <slava> hi
15:49:46 <andrewSC> well i mean still JasonPx, i don't think alot of kids in our class would even venture onto IRC
15:49:51 <JasonPx> i use to dl alot via irc when i have 56k
15:49:56 <andrewSC> unless it's like for a vent server or something..
15:50:13 <andrewSC> haha
15:50:30 <andrewSC> hi slava 
15:50:32 <andrewSC> :)
15:50:38 <tathi> seems like facebook and twitter and so on are where it's at these days
15:50:40 <tathi> hey slava
15:50:53 <andrewSC> agreed.
15:51:01 <JasonPx> tathi: yea those are popular 
15:51:16 <andrewSC> i think it's because of the lack of brain cells.. or personal preference.
15:51:25 <JasonPx> haha
15:52:02 <andrewSC> that's like one of my pet peeves man.. Computer illiterate people under the age of 50.
15:52:28 <andrewSC> I just don't see how they can't not learn about computers.
15:52:44 <tathi> They don't need to know how it works, just how to use it. :)
15:52:52 <andrewSC> ughh
15:53:38 <tathi> It *is* kind of annoying sometimes.
15:53:41 <JasonPx> http://galileo.phys.virginia.edu/classes/551.jvn.fall01/primer.htm  /trying to learn from an example here, search " 53 CONSTANT PRIME".. for some reason.. i get an error for doing this
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15:54:07 <andrewSC> you make a valid point tathi i suppose that very statement is what keeps computer professionals in business
15:54:08 <JasonPx> * search for "53 constant prime" to see what im referring to.
15:54:09 <tathi> Still, I think it's interesting that the technology is getting transparent enough that people don't feel a need to muck around with it, they just use it.
15:54:19 <tathi> looking...
15:54:51 <andrewSC> hmmmm
15:55:09 <tathi> so you did `: constant create , does> @ ;  53 constant prime` and you get an error?
15:55:15 <tathi> what error?
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15:56:58 <JasonPx> it blames "prime" ... undefined word
15:57:44 <tathi> are you sure you didn't misspell something?  It should work
15:57:48 <tathi> gforth, I assume...?
15:57:52 <andrewSC> indeed
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15:58:28 <JasonPx> yea
15:58:34 <tathi> that's the CREATE .. DOES> example that everybody uses
16:01:18 <JasonPx> so it's a gforth problem or ?
16:02:07 <andrewSC> i don't think it's gforth JasonPx 
16:02:08 <tathi> maybe restart gforth and try it again?
16:02:14 <andrewSC> tathi, do you listen to Bing Crosby?
16:02:17 <tathi> It really should work.  Works in gforth here.
16:02:49 <tathi> sure
16:03:08 <andrewSC> What album would recommend?
16:03:52 <andrewSC> or maybe
16:03:59 <tathi> Oh, I guess I don't *listen* to him -- I've seen him in movies
16:04:04 <andrewSC> ahh ok
16:06:20 <tathi> JasonPx: any luck?
16:06:28 <JasonPx> it's fine now :) 
16:06:36 <andrewSC> this is killing me
16:06:51 <tathi> ok.  maybe you had redefined CREATE or something -- that would be my guess.
16:06:52 <andrewSC> seems everyone only likes his Christmas stuff..
16:07:09 <tathi> Well, that's what he's best known for, I guess.
16:07:42 <andrewSC> haha
16:12:01 <tathi> brb, have to close up the greenhouses for the night.
16:22:57 <andrewSC> brb aswell but for dinner
16:22:58 <andrewSC> :)
16:23:31 <tathi> andrewSC: gah.  now I'm going to have Irving Berlin songs stuck in my head
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16:43:53 <JasonPx> andrewSC: did you use TIB to do 3 ' + curry-bin-op 3+ \ creates the word 3+ ?
16:46:39 <tathi> you shouldn't need to
16:47:32 <JasonPx> tathi: what operation would i need? 
16:48:40 <tathi> you mean to get the name 3+ ?
16:48:58 <tathi> use CREATE or :
16:49:19 <tathi> er, I should have said to *define* the name
16:52:26 <tathi> CREATE .. DOES> allows you to make a word with data attached and code to do something with the data
16:53:23 <tathi> : starts a regular definition, then you can use COMPILE, POSTPONE and LITERAL to compile behavior into it.
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16:56:52 <JasonPx> ok guys my gforth now keep complaining about quota exceed.. what to do?
16:57:00 <JasonPx> i try restarting it.. but same problem
16:57:46 <tathi> hmm.  I haven't seen that one.  I guess I'll check the source and see what it means...
16:59:05 <tathi> huh.  doesn't seem to be a gforth error
16:59:22 <JasonPx> i think it's my hd 
16:59:51 <tathi> that would be my guess, that your OS has limits set somewhere that you're exceeding.
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17:03:23 <JasonPx> tathi: : boo( a b -- creates the word ab)
17:03:44 <JasonPx> first i must concat those element and create it
17:04:10 <tathi> oh.  I thought they gave you the name.
17:04:13 <JasonPx> how would i even create ____ / when the blank is from a param
17:04:24 <tathi> you said `3 ' + curry-bin-op 3+` above
17:04:38 <tathi> in which case it's easy.
17:04:39 <JasonPx> o wait.. lemme double check
17:05:55 <JasonPx> what i said is true.. but whhy would they do 3 ' + and 3+ ?
17:06:27 <tathi> because there isn't any good way to get the names of things which came before
17:08:22 <tathi> or you might want to give it a name that describes what it's used for, instead of just what it does.
17:10:27 <JasonPx> ok i understand now.. damn overthink this.. now i wasted 2 hours :*(
17:11:53 <tathi> maybe you can get extra credit for doing it both ways. ;)
17:14:05 <JasonPx> nah
17:24:27 <JasonPx> tathi: so i did the first part.. however the 2nd part http://pastebin.com/da371f22 ... i have to somehow save the early param and then execute it?
17:25:31 <tathi> yeah.
17:26:50 <JasonPx> err exactly how would i do this.. using "variable" will be inefficient as my value will messup if i create multiple words with it..
17:27:01 <andrewSC> hi again
17:27:02 <andrewSC> :)
17:27:15 <tathi> you want to build them into the new word 3+ that you're defining
17:28:37 <tathi> you could use CREATE .. DOES> like you were looking at before
17:28:54 <tathi> or you could make a regular colon definition and look at the words for compiling code
17:29:18 <tathi> that is: COMPILE, (compile-comma) LITERAL POSTPONE
17:32:29 <JasonPx> ahah im lost now
17:33:07 <JasonPx> im currently using create does> num Op
17:33:17 <tathi> ok
17:33:31 <JasonPx> however num Op must be somehow be unique variables related to that word
17:33:33 * andrewSC smiles
17:34:01 <JasonPx> im thinking of using some array.. but... hmm 
17:34:26 <tathi> no...
17:34:46 <tathi> look back at that example using CREATE .. DOES> to define 'constant'.
17:36:06 <tathi> The whole point of CREATE .. DOES> is that CREATE gives you a place to store data for each CREATEd word, and DOES> allows you to perform an arbitrary action on it.
17:39:39 <tathi> or get Stephen Pelc's book Programming Forth from http://www.mpeforth.com/books.htm and read the section on CREATE .. DOES> :)
17:48:03 <andrewSC> good golly
17:48:11 <andrewSC> i just got isBalanced working properly...
17:48:12 <tathi> ?
17:48:15 <andrewSC> that was a pain lol
17:48:16 <tathi> nice
17:48:27 <JasonPx> nice im still far away
17:48:31 <andrewSC> oh man
17:48:37 <andrewSC> your gonna be up late lol
17:48:40 <tathi> I always find recursive stuff annoying
17:48:48 <andrewSC> meh
17:49:03 <andrewSC> it's only natural to find it annoying like 99% of people think iteratively..
17:49:08 <tathi> well, tricky to debug, anyway.
17:49:11 <andrewSC> that other 1% idk about..
17:49:15 <andrewSC> lmao
17:49:15 <andrewSC> yeah
17:49:16 <tathi> hehe
17:49:37 <andrewSC> danging pointers in C++ is a killer too...
17:49:47 <slava> if you have dangling pointers in C++ you're doing it wrong :)
17:49:56 <slava> don't code it like C and it will be less of an issue
17:49:57 <andrewSC> oh god please don't remind me
17:50:00 <andrewSC> lol
17:50:03 <JasonPx> tathi: : CONSTANT  CREATE  ,  , DOES>  @ @ ;  / to handle 2 param, however if i throw 10 20 constant prime, calling prime fails
17:50:03 <slava> modern idioms are pretty robust
17:50:06 <tathi> I'll second that
17:50:19 <tathi> C++ is supposed to be totally different than C
17:50:19 <andrewSC> hmmmm
17:50:59 <tathi> JasonPx: think it through -- after the first @, what does the stack look like?
17:52:37 <JasonPx> the previous top will be in the top of the stack
17:52:56 <tathi> ?
17:53:12 <tathi> ok, do you know what @ does?
17:53:29 <slava> it sends an email right?
17:53:33 <slava> like tathi @ gmail.com
17:53:34 <JasonPx> no
17:53:42 <tathi> ding ding ding!  we have a winnah!
17:53:47 <tathi> :)
17:53:54 <JasonPx> reads the address and retrieve the contents
17:54:07 <slava> its kind of annoying though. the domain name is read from the ipnut stream at compile time, only the recipient can be a parameter at runtime
17:54:10 <slava> damn ANS
17:54:16 <slava> they ruined email
17:54:38 <tathi> ANS is the Anti-Forth
17:55:55 <tathi> JasonPx: right, so CREATE puts an address on the stack, then you call @, leaving the value.  Where are you getting the address for the second @?
17:57:03 <JasonPx> im not sure now
17:57:38 <JasonPx> i guess it doesnt exist ?
17:57:45 <tathi> bingo
18:01:04 <JasonPx> cool i will have to use 2@ i
18:06:57 <JasonPx> ok.. so it works.. however   ' +    will be translated to some numbers instead.. and not the addition operation
18:07:13 <JasonPx> how would i step over this problem?
18:08:31 <andrewSC> if statements don't consume the -1 do they?
18:10:54 <JasonPx> i believe they do
18:13:19 <JasonPx> so ' + is stored as some number.. is there a operation to make it to + ?
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18:19:50 <andrewSC> @
18:19:51 <andrewSC> ?
18:20:03 <andrewSC> JasonPx, is the number negative?
18:24:40 <andrewSC> hmmm
18:24:47 <andrewSC> how do you take the absolute value of something?
18:26:28 <andrewSC> do you know off the top of your head tathi?
18:27:42 <andrewSC> nvm
18:27:46 <andrewSC> it's negate btw
18:35:34 <tathi> ' + gives an execution token
18:35:53 <tathi> you can execute it with EXECUTE or compile it with COMPILE, (compile-comma -- the comma is part of the word name).
18:36:27 <JasonPx> hmmm
18:37:13 <tathi> andrewSC: there is also a standard word ABS
18:37:27 <tathi> or there is U. if you want to display something as an unsigned number
18:37:53 <andrewSC> mhmm
18:38:14 <andrewSC> yeah it was just a little hack to get around a root node with no children and no struts
18:38:26 <tathi> ah
18:38:34 <andrewSC> i said
18:38:48 <andrewSC> if i got all null values, the sum will be zero
18:39:03 <andrewSC> otherwise it should be greater than zero
18:39:19 <tathi> and IF does consume the flag, but I assume you figured that out.
18:39:29 <andrewSC> yeah lol i figured that out
18:39:30 <andrewSC> ;)
18:39:38 <andrewSC> and JasonPx made a hint to it
18:39:46 <andrewSC> brb afk
18:39:49 <JasonPx> cool
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20:10:32 <JasonPx> so i'm reading about struct. they mention "offset".. what does that mean?
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21:26:39 <JasonPx> can someobdy go provide me a useful link of structure in forth?
21:52:23 <JasonPx> or can somebody explain how to use compat/struct.fs http://sysinf0.klabs.be/usr/share/gforth/0.6.2/compat/struct.fs?dist=%3Barch=
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