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08:28:15 <dkcl> Why do I love Forth so much? I'm supposed to be Lisping.
08:28:31 <schme> hahaha.
08:28:45 <schme> dkcl: welcome to the dark side ;)
08:48:10 <dkcl> I know. :)
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09:14:16 <andrewSC> hi all 
09:14:17 <andrewSC> :)
09:14:22 <dkcl> Moin.
09:19:02 <andrewSC> is there anyway to determine if the top value on the stack is an address?
09:19:17 <andrewSC> rather than just some arbitrary number?
09:19:43 <andrewSC> without using the @ symbol as that would throw an invalid pointer if the value was just some number..
09:20:10 <GeDaMo> No
09:20:15 <andrewSC> mhmm
09:20:39 <GeDaMo> Addresses are just arbitrary numbers :P
09:20:48 <andrewSC> :P
09:21:16 <GeDaMo> What is it you're trying to do?
09:21:31 <schme> my bet: thermo nuclear war
09:21:49 <andrewSC> yes schme
09:21:52 <andrewSC> ;)
09:22:21 <andrewSC> GeDaMo, i'm just trying to recurse down a tree and add the values of the leaf nodes
09:22:33 <andrewSC> however, my null value is zero
09:23:18 <GeDaMo> Hmmm ... I don't see the problem
09:23:37 <schme> andrewSC: maybe test for zero before you access ;)
09:23:37 <andrewSC> well, i think my logic is a bit off...
09:23:49 <andrewSC> well i do kinda..
09:23:55 <GeDaMo> Yeah, what schme said
09:23:56 <andrewSC> dup dup 0 = if else drop cell+ @ recurse then + ;
09:24:14 <andrewSC> is that far from the correct way to recurse this tree?
09:24:32 <andrewSC> assume i've put the root node on the stack
09:25:10 <schme> how are your nodes mapped in memory?
09:25:17 <andrewSC> using arrays
09:25:36 <andrewSC> my root node has a value then pointers to the left and right nodes
09:25:46 <andrewSC> so
09:25:56 <andrewSC> create root 22333 , lnode , rnode ,
09:26:16 <andrewSC> and my child nodes are structured the same way.
09:26:49 <schme> it looks like it it simpsons time :)
09:27:07 <andrewSC> haha what??
09:27:15 <andrewSC> literally or figuratively?
09:28:22 <schme> literally. the wife just woke up.
09:28:26 <andrewSC> haha
09:34:15 <GeDaMo> What you want is something like  dup left@ over right@ + swap value@ +
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09:34:50 <GeDaMo> Where left@ gets the value of the left tree
09:36:56 <andrewSC> mhmmmm
09:39:34 <GeDaMo> : sumtree  dup 0 = if 0 else dup @ ( value ) swap cell+ dup recurse ( left ) swap cell+ recurse ( right ) + + then ;
09:41:12 <GeDaMo> Whoops, forgot a drop before else
09:41:22 <GeDaMo> Drat! I mean a nip :P
09:41:41 <GeDaMo> Or a drop right after the if
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10:02:11 <andrewSC> hey GeDaMo, my apologies i just got off the phone..
10:02:18 <andrewSC> so regarding the one liner you posted
10:02:35 <GeDaMo> The one-liner with the three lines of edits? :P
10:02:40 <andrewSC> the value, left, and right words are supposed to be nodes?
10:02:42 <andrewSC> ;)
10:03:07 <andrewSC> i suppose a more precise question would be what is value?
10:03:25 <GeDaMo> Value is the value at the current node
10:03:33 <andrewSC> ok
10:03:42 <andrewSC> what do the braces do?
10:04:01 <GeDaMo> Forth comments
10:04:07 <andrewSC> ahhhh that's right
10:04:19 <andrewSC> forgot about that form of commenting
10:04:23 <andrewSC> tisk tisk..
10:04:44 <andrewSC> so the final line would be
10:04:47 <andrewSC> : sumtree  dup 0 = if drop else dup @ ( value ) swap cell+ dup recurse ( left ) swap cell+ recurse ( right ) + + then ;
10:05:31 <GeDaMo> You missed a 0 between drop and else
10:05:52 <andrewSC> ahh
10:05:53 <andrewSC> ok
10:05:58 <GeDaMo> That's the value of the tree if it's empty
10:07:15 <andrewSC> gotcha
10:08:44 <andrewSC> seems to go into an infinite loo
10:08:46 <andrewSC> loop
10:09:44 <andrewSC> my structure looks like
10:09:54 <andrewSC> create root 5 , lnode , rnode ,
10:10:09 <andrewSC> create lnode 22 , llnode , 0 ,
10:10:31 <andrewSC> create llnode 2 , 0 , 0 ,
10:10:39 <andrewSC> create rnode 9 , 0 , 0 ,
10:10:47 <GeDaMo> Presumably you don't do them in that order
10:10:56 <andrewSC> right
10:11:12 <andrewSC> root is at the bottom of the instructions
10:11:21 <andrewSC> etc etc
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10:12:04 <GeDaMo> I forgot the @s right before each occurence of recurse
10:12:35 <GeDaMo> So it's not fetching the addresses of the children
10:12:45 <andrewSC> ahhhh
10:12:46 <andrewSC> yes
10:12:49 <andrewSC> i see now
10:13:04 <GeDaMo> That's what happens when I make stuff up on the fly :P
10:13:07 <andrewSC> just recursing on the address not on the value inside the address
10:13:09 <andrewSC> hahah
10:13:15 <andrewSC> works well
10:13:17 <andrewSC> :)
10:13:27 <andrewSC> thanks for the help GeDaMo 
10:13:54 <GeDaMo> No problem :)
10:45:12 <andrewSC> why is it when i say      test cell
10:45:21 <andrewSC> i get the address of the first cell
10:45:36 <andrewSC> plus the value stored in the third cell?
10:45:41 <andrewSC> test being an array
10:45:45 <andrewSC> infact
10:45:51 <andrewSC> create test 1 , 2 , 4 ,
10:45:59 <andrewSC> that's the array
10:47:09 <tathi> apparently you redefined `cell` to do something silly. :)
10:47:43 <andrewSC> oh man..
10:48:02 <andrewSC> i Definitely don't think i did.. lol
10:48:18 <tathi> oh, wait.
10:48:24 <tathi> `cell` probably gives 4
10:48:29 <tathi> the size of a cell in bytes
10:48:37 <tathi> has nothing to do with the third value in your array
10:48:49 <andrewSC> ahhh
10:48:50 <andrewSC> ok
10:49:02 <andrewSC> so it was just a coincidence 
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11:26:47 <andrewSC> regarding trees and recursion
11:26:55 <andrewSC> if i wanted to go left or right depending on a nodes value 
11:26:59 <andrewSC> how could i do that?
11:27:21 <andrewSC> would i need to visit that nodes children before i could make a decision?
11:28:37 <GeDaMo> You only need the node's value
11:29:50 <andrewSC> wouldn't that only apply to BST?
11:30:03 <GeDaMo> value@ condition? if visit-left else visit-right then
11:30:14 <andrewSC> being the left node and it's children are < the root and the right and it's children are > root
11:30:23 <andrewSC> mhmmm
11:30:46 <andrewSC> let me see what i can do
11:30:47 <andrewSC> :)
11:48:30 <andrewSC> seems that i'm not doing something right...
11:48:34 <andrewSC> dup 0 = if drop 0 else dup dup 3 cells + @ ( height ) > if swap cell+ dup @ recurse ( left ) else swap 2 cells + dup @ recurse ( right ) then + + then ;
11:48:45 <andrewSC> i'm getting an underflow exception
11:49:22 <andrewSC> on swap
11:49:45 <andrewSC> i make two copies of the value
11:49:56 <andrewSC> shit one by 3 and compare it's integer value
11:50:07 <andrewSC> if it's greater than i traverse left down the three
11:50:18 <andrewSC> if it's less than i traverse down the right
11:51:12 <GeDaMo> Why are you adding three cells?
11:51:34 <andrewSC> oh
11:51:44 <andrewSC> i forgot to mention i've changed my nodes
11:51:51 <andrewSC> \ create node weight , leftnode , rightnode , height , leftstrut , rightstrut , 
11:53:02 <GeDaMo> It might be easier to read if you create field words like height@
11:53:27 <andrewSC> hmmmm
11:54:57 <GeDaMo> What are the fields in your node for?
11:55:04 <andrewSC> a mobile
11:55:08 <andrewSC> :)
11:55:56 <GeDaMo> A mobile what?
11:56:50 <andrewSC> http://www.hangingmobilegallery.com/
11:56:54 <andrewSC> basically those..
11:57:12 <andrewSC> it's simple in the sense that it's just a tree that stores it's weight
11:57:25 <andrewSC> and the length between the weight and strut
11:57:32 <andrewSC> etc etc..
11:58:28 <andrewSC> i think i see the problem
11:58:56 <andrewSC> if i grab the height of a particular node the conditional statement will eat that value
11:59:13 <andrewSC> however if i dup the value...
11:59:24 <andrewSC> i should do a drop swap?
11:59:39 <andrewSC> because the conditional will leave a -1 or 0 on the stack
12:00:03 <andrewSC> then i end up swapping so it trys to get an address when it's a integer literal
12:00:51 <andrewSC> meh that didn't do much..
12:02:23 <GeDaMo> What are you testing the height against?
12:03:15 <andrewSC> lol nothing apparently...
12:03:17 <andrewSC> wow
12:03:18 <andrewSC> umm
12:04:45 <andrewSC> i'm comparing the left node height to the right node height
12:04:57 <andrewSC> or what i'm supposed to be comparing..
12:06:29 <andrewSC> so perhaps after the else i need to recurse then compare the values and add?
12:07:28 <GeDaMo> I'm still not sure what you're trying to do
12:07:52 <andrewSC> haha
12:08:04 <andrewSC> let me see if i can explain a little bit better
12:09:00 <andrewSC> basically each node has a weight, height, addresses for it's two children, and strut information (irrelevant for now).
12:10:11 <andrewSC> starting at the root i need to traverse the tree and when i come to a node (left side or right side) i need to compare that nodes height to it's same-level right node
12:10:28 <andrewSC> let me rephrase that last bit
12:11:53 <andrewSC> i need to compare that nodes height to the nodes i've seen before it
12:12:16 <andrewSC> haha give me second here..
12:13:22 <andrewSC> basically find the largest height value and traverse from that leaf node to the root adding the heights of it's parents as it returns to the root node
12:13:33 <andrewSC> does that make sense?
12:13:55 <andrewSC> i tried to explain it as best as i could.. :)
12:14:39 <GeDaMo> Hmmm ...
12:14:51 <andrewSC> yes
12:14:57 <tathi> andrewSC: I'd second that you should make a structure instead of using cell+ 2 cells + etc.
12:15:24 <andrewSC> i tried to read about structures in Forth and i came across two examples but no explanations
12:15:32 <tathi> hmm
12:15:41 <andrewSC> one example was too easy so i assumed it was just pseudo code
12:15:54 <tathi> probably not. :)
12:16:09 <andrewSC> the other was way more complicated than cell+ and 2 cells +
12:16:21 <andrewSC> so i made a decision
12:16:32 <tathi> 0  field: weight  field: leftnode  field: rightnode ...  constant node-size
12:16:34 <andrewSC> but ultimately yes, i completely agree i think structs here would be perfect
12:16:47 <andrewSC> hmmmm
12:16:48 <tathi> then you can do `leftnode @` and so on
12:17:01 <andrewSC> was the zero infront of field intentional?
12:17:02 <tathi> and your code will still work even if you change the structure around
12:17:10 <tathi> yeah.  starting size
12:17:17 <andrewSC> what does it do?
12:17:22 <andrewSC> oh
12:17:24 <andrewSC> lol
12:17:29 <andrewSC> i misread excuse me.
12:17:39 <andrewSC> i see hmmmm
12:27:29 <andrewSC> i think i almost have a struct in forth
12:27:41 <andrewSC> basically i've created a word called field 
12:27:45 <andrewSC> so
12:27:52 <andrewSC> : field dup constant ;
12:28:03 <andrewSC> in gforth i type 
12:28:10 <tathi> oh, sorry.  I was assuming your Forth had `field:`
12:28:18 <andrewSC> no worries
12:28:52 <andrewSC> oh nevermind it does..
12:28:52 <andrewSC> lol
12:29:00 <andrewSC> i am trying to follow this one example
12:29:05 <andrewSC> so say i want to set weight
12:29:12 <andrewSC> i need to type
12:29:13 <tathi> ok
12:29:45 <andrewSC> 5 weight
12:29:45 <andrewSC> ?
12:30:08 <tathi> where is the example?  gforth docs?
12:30:17 <andrewSC> http://www.figuk.plus.com/articles/jb/struct.htm
12:31:23 <tathi> ah, ok.
12:31:40 <tathi> that first bit (dup constant) just gives you the offset
12:31:52 <andrewSC> ok
12:32:03 <tathi> so you would have to do `5 node weight + !`
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12:33:14 <andrewSC> what is node in reference to?
12:33:19 <andrewSC> the array?
12:33:50 <tathi> whatever node you're setting the weight on.
12:33:57 <andrewSC> mhmm
12:34:18 <tathi> structure field words just take an address to the whole structure and add the appropriate offset to give you the address of the field
12:35:10 <tathi> just a named replacement for `2 cells +` or whatever.
12:35:16 <andrewSC> right right
12:35:18 <andrewSC> hmmm
12:35:32 <andrewSC> let me try something..
12:35:45 <tathi> so you could even just define them by hand
12:35:47 <tathi> ok
12:37:37 <andrewSC> ok i think i almost have this working
12:37:38 <andrewSC> umm
12:38:01 <andrewSC> once i set the value how can i access it?
12:38:03 <andrewSC> weight@
12:38:03 <andrewSC> ?
12:38:13 <andrewSC> or node cell+ @
12:38:13 <andrewSC> ?
12:38:20 <tathi> ( node ) weight @
12:38:24 <andrewSC> mhmm
12:39:14 <andrewSC> hmmmm
12:39:24 <andrewSC> something is still off and i have to get going...
12:39:33 <andrewSC> will you be in here later tathi ?
12:40:10 <tathi> hmm...probably not...I have choir tonight.
12:40:20 <andrewSC> ahh ok
12:40:27 <andrewSC> well thank you very much for the help
12:40:29 <tathi> Let's see...it's 3:40 now; I might be back on 9ish
12:40:42 <tathi> just ask.  Someone will answer. :)
12:40:45 <andrewSC> fair enough
12:41:00 <andrewSC> i'll probly here later tonight as well
12:41:09 <andrewSC> anyways, thanks again! :) 
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13:08:32 <Stepan> so what happened to #forthcafe
13:09:36 <tathi> he noticed the existence of ##forth and moved there instead
13:11:23 <GeDaMo> There's a ##forth?
13:11:54 <tathi> Yeah...freenode changed their naming policy at one point, and (maybe) wanted us to move.
13:12:00 <Stepan> not that i think i should be involved, but we are so few, we should not argue and split up
13:12:18 <tathi> But we sort of decided that since no one really owns the term "forth" that we would just stay here unless and until they forced a move.
13:14:26 <tathi> Stepan: yeah...I tried talking to him privately, but couldn't understand what the problems were exactly.
13:14:59 <tathi> I was hoping there was something we could do to keep him here
13:16:15 <tathi> Well, obviously the kick he posted on c.l.f. was uncalled for, but it seems to have been an isolated incident AFAICT.
13:16:19 <Stepan> just saw the posting on c.l.f
13:16:37 <Stepan> (which was the reason to come here,.. so it had it's good side)
13:16:50 <tathi> heh.
13:17:19 <tathi> I just can't see that people leaving operator status on is a big issue.
13:17:35 <tathi> Ditto people talking about random unrelated stuff, as long as it's not interfering with actual Forth conversation.
13:17:54 <tathi> But maybe other folks feel otherwise, I dunno.
13:18:33 <Stepan> these little things can mess with people's mood and reception sometimes
13:19:08 <Stepan> i think everybody should live. and behave *g*
13:19:20 <tathi> hear hear :)
13:19:33 <tathi> What are you up to these days?  Anything Forth related?
13:19:37 <GeDaMo> It's not like this channel is particularly busy
13:20:21 <Stepan> tathi: not doing much forth anymore.. OpenBIOS is mostly maintained by the Qemu folks, and I'm not working on any other OFW 
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13:20:33 <Stepan> but who knows.. this might change again
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14:20:23 <segher> stepan: ohai
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14:40:43 <Stepan> segher: What ya doin?
14:41:06 <Stepan> http://icanhascheezburger.com/upcoming/?pid=108860
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14:42:40 <segher> stepan: nothing much.  well, way too much.  but sleeping, in a few minutes :-)
14:43:41 <segher> i spend most of today on bringing my mail folders under 5GB
14:43:58 <segher> imap _sucks_
14:44:14 <Stepan> it does?
14:44:19 <Stepan> better than pop3 i suppose
14:44:53 <Stepan> i started doing a libpayload port to ppc today
14:44:57 <Stepan> powerpc even
14:45:13 <Stepan> but all the .S files are empty ;)
14:45:33 <segher> heh
14:45:36 <GeDaMo> No bugs then :P
14:46:03 <segher> gedamo: depends on the linker script :-P
14:47:48 <GeDaMo> Pessimist :P
14:50:29 <segher> realist, heh
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16:11:25 <andrewSC> hi all
16:11:26 <andrewSC> :)
16:44:14 <dkcl> Hello again.
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18:04:15 <tathi> hey all
18:28:05 <gogonkt> morning
18:28:38 <tathi> evening :)
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18:52:01 <snowrichard> hi
18:55:04 <gogonkt> mak
18:55:21 <gogonkt> make bigForth failed...
18:57:09 <snowrichard> never tried it
18:57:29 <gogonkt> o?
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19:00:24 <andrewSC> ahh so where were we :)
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19:05:27 <andrewSC> tathi, i'm still a bit confused as to how i should go about accessing and creating structs
19:05:29 <andrewSC> : \
19:05:46 <andrewSC> i've been toying with different setups for a while now and i'm not getting far..
19:15:54 <andrewSC> weight @ 
19:15:54 <andrewSC> :28: Stack underflow
19:15:54 <andrewSC> weight >>>@<<<
19:15:54 <andrewSC> Backtrace:
19:15:58 <andrewSC> excuse the flood..
19:16:04 <andrewSC> next time i will do a codepad
19:16:15 <andrewSC> but i'm getting this error after i type
19:16:20 <andrewSC> 5 node weight + !
19:18:01 <andrewSC> even when i type the above and type
19:18:05 <andrewSC> node weight @
19:18:14 <andrewSC> i get zero even though i've set weight to 5
19:18:39 <andrewSC> perhaps i can only access values in an array not modify them?
19:24:17 <andrewSC> facinating
19:24:37 <andrewSC> with structs i can only access the values not modify them..
19:24:48 <andrewSC> node weight @  ok
19:24:48 <andrewSC> .s <1> 9  ok
19:25:07 <andrewSC> which is what i set the nodes weight to
19:28:22 <tathi> er...you're doing two different things there
19:28:31 <andrewSC> :)
19:28:41 <tathi> `node weight` is not the same as `node weight +`
19:29:08 <tathi> try 5 node weight !
19:29:31 <andrewSC> ah
19:29:34 <andrewSC> yes that sets it
19:29:44 <andrewSC> and node weight get's it
19:29:45 <andrewSC> cool
19:29:54 <tathi> node weight @ gets it
19:29:59 <andrewSC> oh?
19:30:12 <andrewSC> oops
19:30:12 <tathi> at least that's what you just said...
19:30:13 <andrewSC> yes it does
19:30:16 <andrewSC> i forgot the @
19:30:26 <andrewSC> : \
19:33:07 <andrewSC> do you like grilled cheese tathi?
19:33:16 <tathi> on occasion
19:33:22 <andrewSC> excellent
19:34:28 <tathi> ok... was there a point to that? :)
19:35:21 <andrewSC> oh no
19:35:23 <andrewSC> :)
19:56:43 <andrewSC> http://codepad.org/3swJOErp
19:56:55 <andrewSC> i can't figure out what i'm doing wrong here
19:57:21 <andrewSC> did i forget to add syntactic sugar?
19:57:35 <andrewSC> :1: Invalid memory address
19:57:39 <andrewSC> that's what i'm getting
19:57:51 <tathi> hmm, let's see.
19:58:34 <tathi> this is irrelevant, but `dup 0 = if drop 0` seems kind of silly.
19:58:53 <tathi> "if it's zero, drop it and put a zero there instead"?
19:58:58 <andrewSC> yes
19:59:10 <andrewSC> the stack actually holds the root node
19:59:13 <tathi> oh, but you're distinguishing between null and 0
19:59:21 <andrewSC> right
20:00:49 <tathi> you want the dup before leftnode, not after.
20:01:47 <tathi> you want to duplicate the tree pointer so you can get the rightnode later
20:01:57 <tathi> instead you're duplicating the address of the leftnode pointer
20:02:08 <andrewSC> ahhhh
20:02:14 <andrewSC> yes
20:02:17 <andrewSC> that fixed it!
20:02:35 <andrewSC> :)
20:03:25 <tathi> actually I'd use over, and add after each recurse
20:03:40 <tathi> dup weight @ over leftnode @ recurse + swap rightnode @ recurse +
20:04:04 <andrewSC> mhmmm
20:06:33 <tathi> And personally I'd use `dup if ... then` instead of `dup 0 = if drop 0 else ... then`
20:07:41 <andrewSC> lol let me see if can clean this up a little
20:07:42 <andrewSC> :)
20:11:35 <andrewSC> made the changes thanks for the heads up tathi
20:11:35 <andrewSC> :)
20:11:39 <andrewSC> brb afk
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20:29:07 <tathi> bedtime for me -- goodnight all...
20:29:13 <dkcl> Night!
20:30:02 <adu> hi
20:30:11 <adu> how are you?
20:30:25 <dkcl> Sleep-deprived. How are you? :)
20:31:00 <adu> sleeepy
20:33:26 <andrewSC> indeed
20:33:29 <andrewSC> nite everyone!
20:33:29 <andrewSC> :)
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21:15:01 <adu> I like simplicity
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/09.04.29