00:00:00 --- log: started forth/09.03.23 00:04:11 --- join: H4ns (n=hans@p57A0E209.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 00:14:54 --- join: proteusguy (n=proteusg@61.7.144.97) joined #forth 00:45:15 --- join: aum (n=aum@60-234-243-247.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth 00:46:47 --- nick: gogonkt_ -> gogonkt 00:59:35 --- quit: H4ns ("Leaving.") 01:32:02 --- quit: nighty__ (Remote closed the connection) 02:11:45 --- join: qFox (i=C00K13S@132pc222.sshunet.nl) joined #forth 02:24:41 --- join: qFxo (i=C00K13S@132pc222.sshunet.nl) joined #forth 02:32:58 --- join: H4ns (n=Hans@p57BBA7FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 02:37:24 --- join: jewel (n=jewel@dsl-242-133-68.telkomadsl.co.za) joined #forth 02:43:20 yo dawg, i heard you like forth so we put a forth in your forth so now you can use forth while using forth 02:44:39 --- quit: qFox (Nick collision from services.) 02:44:40 --- nick: qFxo -> qFox 02:44:43 qFxo: not original - lots of people have written forths to run in other forths 02:45:10 orly.. 02:45:28 either you missed out on something or you missed out on my joke :( 02:45:38 I missed out on the joke. 02:45:48 and something. 02:46:05 google for "yo dawg i heard" 02:46:14 :( 02:46:42 forth is just the perfect language for this one 02:46:50 aha likwit crew 02:47:05 xzibit sure has some good tunes. 02:47:11 I guess maybe he also uses forth. 02:47:23 (of course, any decent language should doable, but forth comes naturally :) 02:48:23 I'm a bit confused as how to forth is better for rapping than any other, but ok :) 02:48:33 back in the old days, when most computers were still built around BASIC with 1-character identifiers and no subroutine names, forth was certainly a breakthrough from heaven 02:48:37 it has nothing to do with rapping though? 02:48:42 it's just a meme 02:48:50 qFox: Ok you've lost me. 02:49:01 "yo dawg i heard you liked x so we made an x and put an x in it so now you can x while you x" 02:49:10 it's a meme, replace x for anything 02:49:15 aum: forth on 6502 compared to 6502 assembly sure was heaven for me :) 02:49:28 hehe, i remember 6502 02:49:32 * aum is showing his age :P 02:49:37 from 4chan, i guess, and because xzibit said similar lines on pimp my ride 02:49:48 * schme googles 4chan and pimp my ride. 02:49:53 I am learning tons today. (: 02:50:00 just google "yo dawg i heard" 02:50:03 aum: I still have 6502 hardware up and running here :) 02:50:06 that should tell you enough 02:50:15 qFox: I did. I found a picture of the dude from likwit crew. 02:50:20 (ie. xzibit) 02:50:48 lemme get some examples, hold on :p 02:51:13 hey 02:51:16 4chan seems like shit. 02:51:19 so does pimp my ride. 02:51:22 so please no examples. 02:52:06 actually, 6502 was luxury compared to what i started with 02:52:07 the best, imo, is this: http://imagechan.com/images/27c5506712b8570894fad2fc648eec04.jpg 02:52:30 aum: oh ya? 02:52:32 do tell! 02:52:45 qFox: 02:52:49 National Semiconductor SC/MP 8-bit processor - didn't even have a stack pointer 02:52:50 qFox: I don't quite get the funny part. 02:52:56 sweet :D 02:53:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Semiconductor_SC/MP 02:54:14 but then, there are microcontrollers which are vastly more limited again 02:54:17 I ordered me one of those intellasys eval boards. But it has not yet arrived. 02:54:28 I am still looking forward to the 40 core forth madness. 02:54:36 wtf?!? 02:54:41 40 core motherboard? 02:54:42 yeah man :) 02:54:56 that can't be cheap 02:55:03 aum: 40 core CPU running ventureforth as "machine code" 02:55:13 what kind of cpu is that? 02:55:15 they're not pricey at all. 02:55:19 http://www.intellasys.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=60&Itemid=75 02:56:14 It's one of the lastest brainchilds of chuck moore it would seem (: 02:56:15 schme> http://www.yodawgyo.com/ ... i can't really explain it. just one of those things :) 02:56:29 qFox: No it's ok. I saw some pictures. It was not funny. :P 02:56:32 hmmm the seaforth, i should really start doing something with it 02:56:43 you can apply for a uh, testpackage thing 02:56:44 what is 02:56:45 and you get one 02:56:48 what is 'ventureforth' like? 02:57:04 not quite as easy as i hoped, i guess 02:57:12 but you can download and test it all without the actual thing 02:57:18 good question. I played some with the simulator.. and it's well.. like a really small forth :) 02:57:26 oh seaforth maybe it was called and not ventureforth. 02:57:36 yeah the simulator was not all so fun. 02:57:42 ventureforth is the forth you actually use 02:57:46 presumably the chip would execute compiled ventureforth code in memory, and you'd need a compiler to convert source code 02:57:46 They seem to be handing out free forthdrives though. 02:57:49 seaforth is the physical device that runs it 02:57:55 oh yeah that's it. 02:57:59 but all you're really doing is using ventureforth 02:58:04 indeed. 02:58:06 you don't quite see all that much on the seaforth 02:58:30 (: 02:58:47 so how would you implement a fib benchmark to take advantage of all the cores? 02:58:56 My plan is to abuse it all for audioprocessing. 02:58:57 but if you want one (it's about as big as a normal usb stick, including 500mb :p) send them an email 02:58:58 hmm.. 02:59:00 beats me. (: 02:59:08 qFox: ya the forthdrive (: 02:59:11 : fib dup 3 < if drop 1 else 1- dup recurse swap 1- recurse + then ; 02:59:23 the thing requires you to take a whole new approach though 02:59:29 Yup. 02:59:34 i mean, you have 24 or 40 cores (i got the 24 one) 02:59:39 they have to communicate 02:59:56 I'm not convinced that fibonacci is a good thing to use it for (: 02:59:56 you have to take into account that you only have about ... 90 words per core available (dont remember the exact number atm) 03:00:05 ya 03:00:18 and that you somehow have to map the computation to the output core 03:00:20 fib is a gloriously crude meatball benchmark - my favourite 03:00:44 mmm. meatballs. 03:00:55 its a cool thing, i just hope there's some more software development once i actually have time for it 03:01:12 qFox: what the eval board has that the usb thing does not have is nice midi interface and other things that are necessary for a healthy life :) 03:01:23 anyway, i've been working on my (heavily object-oriented) aumForth for ages - hoping to come up with a release RSN 03:01:39 RSN? 03:01:43 real soon now 03:01:46 aha :D 03:01:49 yeah good plan! 03:01:57 Sounds like fun stuff too! 03:02:35 I should make me some pasta and meatballs though (: 03:02:42 totally offensive to forth purists - prototype-based OO, mark'n'sweep gc, lots of bells and whistles 03:03:23 ouch. 03:03:28 sooo.. maybe drop the gc ;) 03:03:46 I have noticed that GC is the real enemy in life. 03:04:10 no - can't/won't drop gc - it's a powerful panacea for whole classes of bugs 03:04:16 OO I'm all for, GC is the evil :) 03:04:20 :( 03:04:22 but.. but... 03:04:36 without gc, you're walking a tightrope between memleaks and segfaults 03:04:44 --- join: H4ns1 (n=Hans@p57BBA213.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 03:04:45 Oh yes :) 03:05:23 i did have refcounting instead, but got rid of it rather than go through the complication of cycle detection 03:05:36 Well.. it's all evil :) 03:05:43 but the gc is only for the object stack 03:05:58 data stack, return stack, float stack, object stack 03:06:25 You have a seperate stack for objects, huh? 03:06:27 How does that work? 03:06:37 just like that 03:06:41 aha 03:06:56 >O ? 03:07:00 it's essential for the gc 03:07:20 or all created objects automatically go on the stack? 03:07:32 all created objects go onto the obj stack 03:07:43 of course. it makes total sense :D 03:08:58 i originally just had objs on the data stack, and no gc 03:09:11 but i was spending a lot of time debugging - segfault city 03:09:16 :( 03:09:26 My issue with GC is that it gets in the way of the RT :) 03:09:32 RT? 03:09:35 realtime 03:09:53 well, with a lot of live objects it can 03:10:00 my GC has to be manually initiated 03:10:08 Oh that's excellent though. 03:11:16 the way i see things - given that most people are using increasingly high-level langs these days, forth needs to have high-level options as well 03:11:37 some necessities of high-level languages: 03:11:59 - string objects, can be arbitrarily expanded, shortened, split, joined... 03:12:08 - list objects 03:12:11 - mappings 03:12:18 - subclassable objects 03:12:46 - dynamic creation/disposal of data 03:13:01 - flexible OO 03:13:43 Yes. I see the logic behind that. 03:13:46 SOUNDS DISGUSTING! 03:13:48 ;) 03:18:17 aum: No that's great though. Sounds like factor? 03:20:20 no 03:20:27 much more forth-like than factor 03:20:44 no images either 03:21:05 more like an ANS Forth superset 03:21:14 neat :) 03:21:49 --- quit: H4ns (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:21:49 --- quit: w7tek (Remote closed the connection) 03:21:56 gotta write a lot more documentation, and sort out some packaging issues, then it should be possible to release 03:22:15 i'm hoping to have it up on a website whose code is written in aumForth 03:22:38 That sounds very cool. I hope you keep the channel posted (: 03:23:24 one of the main motives was to have a very high-level language which could perform well running CGI web apps 03:23:47 CGI is hell with web apps written in Python and similar - load time sooo long 03:24:13 anyway, bed calls, gtg, will keep this chan and comp.lang.forth posted 03:24:19 nite all 03:24:20 --- quit: aum ("Leaving") 03:24:21 nite (: 03:48:28 --- nick: H4ns1 -> H4ns 03:56:28 --- quit: cataska (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:56:28 --- quit: nighty^ (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:56:29 --- quit: jewel (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:56:29 --- quit: re_ (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:56:33 --- quit: warpzero (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:56:33 --- quit: qFox (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:56:34 --- quit: Deformative (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:56:36 --- quit: gnomon (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:56:39 --- quit: segher 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(n=wtek@knowlton.dsl.xmission.com) joined #forth 07:21:44 --- quit: w7tek (Client Quit) 08:30:52 --- join: w7tek (n=w7tek@c-98-202-217-190.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:32:39 --- quit: Quartus` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:37:31 --- join: impomatic (n=John@nat65.mia.three.co.uk) joined #forth 09:36:37 --- join: GeDaMo (n=gedamo@dyn-62-56-68-78.dslaccess.co.uk) joined #forth 10:44:09 --- part: H4ns left #forth 11:21:52 --- join: forther (n=forther@207.47.34.100.static.nextweb.net) joined #forth 11:24:59 --- part: forther left #forth 11:29:01 Is the only way to check the state STATE @ or is there a special word? 11:31:03 STATE @ 11:32:27 Thanks. I saw a couple of words to do it in Forth systems, but I can't see it in any of the standards 12:25:33 --- join: H4ns (n=hans@p57A0E209.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 13:49:00 --- join: kar8nga (n=kar8nga@e-159.vc-graz.ac.at) joined #forth 13:50:00 --- quit: kar8nga (Remote closed the connection) 14:07:57 --- quit: mre ("I'll be back") 14:36:18 Is it normal to implement floored division, or use the division supported by the processor? 14:38:42 --- quit: H4ns ("Leaving.") 14:43:33 Well what division do you need? 14:46:45 I don't need anything, I just want my implementation to comply to the standard as much as most other implementations 14:46:56 I see. 14:47:36 I'm very much not sure on this point. It even gets odd with some CPUs supporting several solutions for the division problem :) 14:47:37 So I wondered if it's normal to deviate from the standard on division if it suits the processor 14:49:12 I think it's normal to take a big piss on the standard when it suits you ;) 15:10:29 That would suit me :-) 15:17:19 --- quit: crc (Remote closed the connection) 15:18:13 --- quit: jewel (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 15:20:43 --- join: I440r (n=mark4__@ip70-162-227-36.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #forth 15:33:46 impomatic: ANS allows either floored or symmetric division, with special words if you have an algorithm that needs a particular one. 15:37:32 thanks, that'll make things easier 15:51:39 --- quit: GeDaMo ("Leaving.") 16:12:54 --- quit: tathi (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:25:11 --- join: tathi (n=josh@dsl-216-227-91-166.fairpoint.net) joined #forth 17:00:04 --- quit: w7tek () 17:23:30 --- join: snowrichard (n=snowrich@12.169.182.169) joined #forth 17:25:23 --- join: nighty__ (n=nighty@210.188.173.245) joined #forth 17:28:43 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 18:05:26 --- join: w7tek (n=w7tek@knowlton.dsl.xmission.com) joined #forth 18:17:55 --- join: proteusguy (n=proteusg@61.7.144.97) joined #forth 18:30:28 --- quit: w7tek (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:51:51 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:55:32 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@c-75-70-8-178.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:13:59 --- quit: Al2O3 () 19:14:01 --- join: proteusguy (n=proteusg@61.7.144.97) joined #forth 19:28:09 --- quit: cataska (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 19:28:09 --- quit: nighty^ (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 19:28:50 --- join: cataska (n=cataska@210.64.6.233) joined #forth 19:28:50 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 19:51:09 --- join: mre (n=mre@203.109.161.6) joined #forth 19:51:29 --- quit: cataska (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19:52:35 --- join: cataska (n=cataska@210.64.6.233) joined #forth 19:57:52 --- quit: qFox ("Time for cookies!") 20:07:36 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jasonwoo@c-66-31-44-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 20:07:36 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 20:57:41 --- join: w7tek (n=w7tek@knowlton.dsl.xmission.com) joined #forth 21:01:22 --- quit: w7tek (Client Quit) 22:15:39 --- quit: JasonWoof ("Leaving.") 22:20:04 --- quit: cataska ("leaving") 22:24:44 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jasonwoo@c-66-31-44-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 22:24:44 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 22:38:23 --- join: H4ns (n=hans@p57A0CFBA.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 23:58:52 --- join: cataska (n=cataska@210.64.6.233) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/09.03.23