00:00:00 --- log: started forth/09.02.21 00:14:19 --- join: snowrichard (n=snowrich@12.169.182.169) joined #forth 00:16:21 --- quit: snowrichard (Client Quit) 00:30:35 --- join: qFox (i=C00K13S@132pc222.sshunet.nl) joined #forth 00:46:42 --- join: H4ns1 (n=hans@p57A0F141.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 01:05:03 --- quit: H4ns (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:06:35 --- nick: H4ns1 -> H4ns 03:57:47 --- quit: nighty^ ("Disappears in a puff of smoke") 03:57:55 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 04:30:45 --- join: tathi (n=josh@dsl-216-227-91-166.fairpoint.net) joined #forth 04:30:45 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 04:38:48 --- join: X-Scale (i=email@2001:470:1f0a:13ea:0:0:0:2) joined #forth 05:16:51 --- join: kar8nga (n=kar8nga@a-138.vc-graz.ac.at) joined #forth 06:28:20 --- join: madmacs (n=madgarde@CPE001d7e527f89-CM00159a65a870.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 07:02:53 --- quit: nighty^ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:05:24 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 07:11:27 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:12:44 --- quit: [Forth] (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:23:38 --- nick: Guest50478 -> Twey 07:45:00 --- join: sixforty (n=sixforty@63.99.218.194) joined #forth 08:02:30 --- quit: madmacs () 08:04:23 --- join: madmacs (n=madgarde@CPE001d7e527f89-CM00159a65a870.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 08:20:39 --- join: nighty_ (n=nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 08:23:09 --- join: k2 (n=kar8nga@e-137.vc-graz.ac.at) joined #forth 08:23:37 --- quit: kar8nga (Nick collision from services.) 08:23:39 --- nick: k2 -> kar8nga 08:38:47 --- quit: nighty_ (Client Quit) 08:41:22 --- join: nighty_ (n=nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 08:49:18 --- join: k2 (n=kar8nga@j-53.vc-graz.ac.at) joined #forth 08:49:24 --- quit: kar8nga (Nick collision from services.) 08:49:28 --- nick: k2 -> kar8nga 08:51:26 --- quit: sixforty ("ircII+tkirc2") 08:55:50 --- join: I440r (n=mark4__@ip70-162-227-36.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #forth 09:39:58 I440r: Quick q. regarding isforth. Is there some git repo or some such, or is the official way to grab this thing the tarball? 09:54:54 --- join: sixforty (n=sixforty@63.99.218.194) joined #forth 10:09:18 ah. The bugger does not seem to build on x86-64 linux for me anyway :S 10:09:27 builds, but segfaults. 10:10:04 what is it that segfaults, schme? does it involve emulation? 10:10:48 or perhaps direct access to devices? 10:11:18 I did not look into it that far, yet. Movie with the wife interrupting :) 10:11:38 But it is IsForth that segfaults when I run it. 10:12:09 * sixforty suggests you figure out which is the "interruption" before she catches on :P 10:12:41 ehehehe 10:12:53 Well 10:13:11 Actually it seems to die right away. 10:13:22 Maybe it just does not work on x86-64 linux :) 10:13:24 tried suid root? 10:13:50 marcus@flexbox:~/src/isforth-1.22b$ strace ./kernel.com 10:13:50 execve("./kernel.com", ["./kernel.com"], [/* 26 vars */]) = 0 10:13:50 --- SIGSEGV (Segmentation fault) @ 0 (0) --- 10:13:50 +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++ 10:14:06 ok back to movie :) 10:14:22 good choice :) 10:28:12 schme: when you can, look again at http://www.isforth.com/download.php 10:29:17 schme: https://bugs.launcpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dosemu/+bug/216398 *might* explain it and offer a fix. Hope so. 10:33:57 --- join: _mathrick (n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk) joined #forth 10:35:08 --- quit: mathrick (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:35:15 --- nick: _mathrick -> mathrick 11:24:31 sixforty: I think it is not related to my issue. I think maybe it is more related to my changing the Makefile to generating elf64, and maybe the code is not written to actually work in 64-bit mode.. but perhaps in compatibility mode. 11:25:19 sixforty: The download link there does not really specify if it is on a x86-64 running in 64bit mode or what :) 11:27:17 schme: the problem is that vm's (or anything at all) are prohibited from accessing their own 0:0 memory location. 11:27:42 as for vm.mmap_min_addr .. I don't even have such a key. 11:27:48 I'd be fairly certain that IsForth tries to do this. 11:28:03 Could very well be. I still don't have such a key on my system :) 11:28:39 Simple: if running it suid root gets you further, this is the problem. If not, not. 11:29:12 It does not. 11:29:20 That gives me the same segfault. 11:30:05 Ah, well. 11:30:56 Ah, well indeed :) 11:32:59 right. 11:33:15 init_mem () at isforth.asm:150 11:33:31 I see my weekend has been rescued. 11:38:01 $2d seems mmap related though. The plot thickens (: 11:38:44 schme: Mark mentions the linux "brk call". 11:39:23 Hey your right. 11:39:34 're 11:39:38 ? 11:39:51 That it is mentioned :) 11:40:00 schme no i use svn but its not open 11:40:03 So on the good side of things this seems not to be some *new* breakage :) 11:40:17 I440r: Rightey (: 11:40:17 right now im working on the web site content, documenting all the extensions 11:40:21 K. 11:40:33 Any news on the brk syscall ? (: 11:41:08 are you having that issue? 11:41:31 i know its somethign to do with a linux kernel build option but i still dont know what it is 11:42:00 I'm not sure. I just built IsForth here (after changing makefile to generating elf64), fire it up and it segfaults. gdb pinpoints it to isforth.asm:150 .. which seems to be int 80h with eax == $2d .. looks like brk to me (: 11:42:27 ya. erm i dont think you can build it as an elf_64 11:42:32 Oh ok. 11:42:38 Well then I'm fucked either way :( 11:42:57 no you can run 32 bit applications in a 64 bit linux 11:43:11 Hmm ok. 11:43:32 It refused to build with ia32 11:43:38 if you extract the kernel.com and isforth from the tar.gz THOSE will run in your 64 bit OS 11:43:46 i know because i run a 64 bit linux here 11:43:51 k. I will try that (: 11:43:58 i just cant BUILD it in my 64 bit linux atm because of the brk problem 11:44:06 oh 11:44:10 I built it with no problem. 11:44:15 it jst didn't run (: 11:44:16 yes it builds 11:44:24 but taht build wont run 11:44:27 right. 11:44:34 It doesn't run from the tarball. 11:44:39 i build it on my 32 bit devel machine and it will run on my 64 bit machine 11:44:43 it DOESNT? 11:44:48 what distro do u use? 11:44:54 "kan inte starta binärfil" . hmm.. cannot execute binary file. 11:45:10 err wtf 11:45:15 debian/sid with a patched and homebuilt kernel 11:45:22 that sounds like a "i dont recognize this files ELF sections" 11:45:25 which is BS 11:45:34 Well it seems to do that for all elf32 :) 11:45:44 errr oooohhhhh 11:46:01 2.6.26.8-rt12 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Thu Jan 8 05:09:15 CET 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux 11:46:12 maybe thers a 32 bit compat option in the kernel build for 64 bit linux? 11:46:19 hmmm.. 11:46:22 I'll look. 11:46:30 because i have 64 bit gentoo on this box and it runs 32 bit linux apps just fine 11:46:30 I seem to remember something like that from years ago. 11:46:34 ok. 11:46:40 Maybe I need the ia32-libs packages. 11:46:55 isforth doesnt use ANY external libs at all so no 11:46:58 Though it seems troublesome. That would mean running the CPU in compatibility mode I guess (: 11:47:15 oh. 11:47:54 do a readelf -a kernel.com 11:48:18 yes. there's stuff. 11:48:30 but ./kernel.com wont run? 11:48:35 Exactly. 11:48:47 what about ./isforth 11:48:51 same 11:48:53 the one from the tar 11:48:58 yup 11:49:06 grrrr this sux 11:49:11 linux is fsckign with me 11:49:33 install a 32 bit virtualbox :) 11:49:54 I think it's a 32bit on on 64 issue. I remember something like this back from some years ago. I had to build my kernel with some support, and even run some shit in a 32-bit chroot. 11:50:05 ehehehe 11:52:04 I 11:52:06 eh 11:52:11 I'll try a 32bit chroot 11:53:31 you can do that? 11:53:33 err 11:54:14 Sure. supposedly the CPU can switch between modes (: 11:57:19 * schme debootstraps 11:58:54 I d/l'ed IsForth to look at the source. Since isforth is there, I $ ./isforth . It echoes "Abort". 11:59:28 so apparently it runs at least minimally on nbsd (compats are, unfortunately, configd) 12:00:05 im not sure what would be echoing "Abort" within the isforth executable! 12:00:21 there used to be a fbsd version but it doesnt seem to run in more up to date versions of fbsd 12:00:53 I'm assuming it was the executable. nbsd messages are terse, but not that terse. 12:00:57 i.e. it ran nativly not in compat mode 12:01:11 hang on 12:01:25 oh. That did not work. chroot: kan inte köra kommando "/bin/bash": Exec format error 12:01:39 ok try download www.isforth.com/isforth-fbsd.tar.gz 12:01:40 I guess maybe I missed some switch making 32bit possible (: 12:01:45 see if you can get THAT to run 12:02:22 sigh i have to figure out whatas causing it to not run on certain machines :/ 12:02:28 including my own 64 bit machine 12:02:41 For me I think its lack of support for running in anything but 64bit mode (: 12:02:54 but i know its a kernel build thing because i also have a 32 bit gentoo virtual box vm that it wouldnt run in 12:03:03 Hmmm.. 12:03:12 install virtualbox and install a 32 bit os inside it 12:03:18 Actually I'll try it on my laptop. 12:03:45 taht fbsd.tar.gz doesnt have any links to it from the isforth site because "it no workie" atm 12:04:04 trunk/kernel.com ? 12:04:13 i would like it to work in fbsd and net and open and any other version of 12:04:27 yea. sorry. that was a snapshot of my svn repo for it lol 12:04:38 (I know nothing about IsForth, and precious little about forth) 12:04:41 fucking debian. Wants to install a new kernel to install virtualbox! 12:04:42 try kernel.com - tell me if it runs 12:04:53 wtf 12:04:55 lol 12:05:08 For some "ose" mobule. 12:05:11 module too. 12:05:11 i dont use debian any more because of bogosity like that 12:05:17 oooh dont run the ose version 12:05:22 Right. 12:05:34 Bad system call (core dumped) (this is a typical nbsd error, has fbsd compat) 12:05:34 i use gentoo now 12:05:34 Maybe just use kvm :P 12:06:02 yea. actually that executable ran perfectly in fbsd at one time. but more up to date versions of fbsd give a similar error 12:06:19 nbsd 4.0.1 i386 12:06:38 i developed that fbsd version on slava's dads fbsd box lol 12:06:54 and www.isforth.com is currently hosted on an fbsd system 12:07:07 but i dunno why it wont run any more 12:08:30 there're no external includes? What assembler is needed to boot strap it? 12:08:50 nasm 12:09:05 no. it does not use any external libraries at all. its 100% self contained 12:09:21 do you code asm ? 12:09:36 sixforty: do you ever read documentation? ;) 12:09:54 FreeBSD compat is for FreeBSD 2.2 12:10:12 the make file has nasm assemble the src/kernel/isforth.asm source file. that file includes all the other files in src/kernel 12:10:24 fyi: fbsd, obsd installs lock my comp, even with acpi off. many linuxes have now broken the vm's. 12:10:29 thus nbsd 12:11:02 define "broken vm's" ? 12:11:05 ASau: I'm not generally in the habit of reading docs for stuff I'm trying to get off my comp, such as all the compats 12:11:56 a security change ( not sure if it's linux kernel or just deb stuff) has created a conflict with most emulators 12:12:33 Oh, debian security!.. 12:13:13 I don't have cut/paste yet (I'm only on my 12,456,253rd man page, ASau, so . . .) 12:13:22 If you really want to reuse API compatibility, then you should try linux compat. 12:13:42 In 3.0-3.1 days I used LispWorks just fine. 12:13:43 pls scroll up to the ubuntu link I posted earlier if you've been here that long for info 12:15:10 This is linux specific, why should I care? 12:15:14 ASau: don't understand about "reuse API compatiblity". 12:15:58 nbsd compats are a good thing, but I'm trying to use the comp without them for reasons of my own 12:16:00 If you want to use any API compatibility, then Linux is 12:16:00 likely to work, FreeBSD is unlikely to work, unless you want 2.2 stuff. 12:16:09 ah, thx 12:19:49 the linux breaks emulators link: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dosemu/+bug/216398 12:20:21 there's a link on that page to somewhat more general info 12:21:37 and do I do asm? just snippets, 80x86, a long time ago 12:21:43 error: "vm.mmap_min_addr" is an unknown key 12:21:59 indeed! 12:22:23 right. that key will be ubuntu-specific, indeed intrepid- or hardy-specific (can't remember which) 12:22:49 maybe deb-specific? 12:23:01 I'm on debian, no vm.mmap_min_addr 12:23:13 --- join: k2 (n=kar8nga@e-120.vc-graz.ac.at) joined #forth 12:23:14 sixforty: if there're no linux-only syscalls and you want to port that asm code, I know how to do that. 12:23:24 --- quit: kar8nga (Nick collision from services.) 12:23:26 --- nick: k2 -> kar8nga 12:23:32 I have portable asm code sample. :) 12:23:34 --- join: Quartus` (n=Quartus`@207.245.250.60) joined #forth 12:23:43 --- quit: Quartus` (Client Quit) 12:23:50 on the page, /hardy, /intrepid - maybe, just maybe your linux uses the other form 12:23:52 It builds and works on NetBSD and FreeBSD. 12:25:22 ASau: thx, but it's not on my list right now. Not speaking for others, of course. 12:36:22 That's a bit funny. brk() from a C program works just fine, but 2d + int 80h segfaults (: 12:45:42 --- quit: sixforty ("job called") 12:55:11 schme brk from c calls libc probabluy 12:55:20 Most likely. 12:55:25 and that brk works JUST FINE 12:55:31 I'm curious about what the code for it looks like. 12:55:47 i KNOW it works fine because if i compile isforth on my 32 bit machine THAT executable works fine on my 64 bit machine 12:55:49 Also why I have no mmap_min_addr, I think it's some kernel config option (: 12:56:05 but if i compile it on my 64 bit machine it erm breaks :) 12:56:06 I guess yer 64bit machine is capable of running 32bit binaries then :) 12:56:20 That's beautiful. 12:56:20 heh. 12:56:31 it is 12:56:34 get gentoo :P~ 12:56:39 I can't even build it without changing it to elf64 12:56:51 right 12:56:52 No. I've tried installing gentoo twice, that was enough for me. 12:57:03 you didnt follow the handbook :P~ 12:57:07 Of course I did. 12:57:09 follow the handbook and no problem 12:57:12 but it was broken. 12:57:18 then I tried it again last year. 12:57:23 i find installing gentoo way easier than just about any other distro 12:57:25 and the boot CD didn't boot. 12:57:31 including ubuntu (ick) 12:57:31 That's good fer you :) 12:57:45 I've been on debian since 98 so I'm kinda used to it (: 12:57:49 yea on some machines the live cd is "dead" 12:58:01 ive had to boot to ubunto on a laptop before in order to install gentoo 12:58:11 The trick with debian is to use the base system, then build everything else from scratch. 12:58:19 Just like with all other distros I suppose (: 13:00:35 Hey. Maybe I should enable IA32 emulation 13:01:05 "You should likely turn this on, unless you're 100% sure that you don't have any 32-bit programs left." 13:01:25 I guess that prevents the CPU from switchin' over from 64bit mode (: 13:14:53 heh 13:29:25 oh 13:33:19 I440r: I think I'll poke around porting this to x86_64 13:37:54 "error: instruction not supported in 64-bit mode" x 266 . Great. Anyway it turns out that in 64bit mode syscalls work with rax, and rdi instead of ebx. No wonder it croaked :) 13:57:53 --- quit: kar8nga (Connection timed out) 14:15:34 --- join: kar8nga (n=kar8nga@a-39.vc-graz.ac.at) joined #forth 14:38:24 --- join: crc (n=charlesc@c-68-80-139-0.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 14:40:25 --- join: hagna (n=hagna@71-219-27-126.slkc.qwest.net) joined #forth 14:40:46 so how do I get the .hex of amforth so I can program my avr168? 14:41:21 H4ns: do you know? 14:42:35 hi I440r 14:48:36 --- join: hagna_ (n=hagna@97-117-49-108.slkc.qwest.net) joined #forth 15:03:24 --- quit: hagna (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:10:38 hi :0 15:10:43 schme cool :) 15:11:58 woke up at 3 am. went back to sleep at 4 woke up at 9. now im falling assleep 15:12:07 --- part: X-Scale left #forth 15:12:59 schme if you port that to 64 bits you MIGHT have to move the definition of pad further out :) 15:13:01 not sure heh 15:13:25 errr actually i might have to do that anyway 15:13:34 pad is usually at here 80 + 15:13:53 and number conversion <# # #s #> etc uses pad to convert the number to a string 15:15:03 porting isforth to x86-64? 15:15:17 schme, said he was going to try heh 15:15:29 he will have to move pad out to here 128 + or more 15:15:57 -1 binary u. would use up more than 80 bytes of pad and will overwrite the code below here 15:22:29 --- quit: hagna_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:29:33 --- quit: kar8nga (Remote closed the connection) 15:36:21 --- quit: nxt (Remote closed the connection) 15:48:18 --- join: nxt (n=nxt@77.207.25.109) joined #forth 16:14:41 --- quit: Twey (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:14:46 --- join: Twey (n=Twey@unaffiliated/twey) joined #forth 18:26:13 --- join: hagna (n=hagna@97-117-49-108.slkc.qwest.net) joined #forth 18:26:31 so it looks like you have to use windows to compile amforth is that right? 18:35:30 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 18:38:05 --- part: madmacs left #forth 19:57:31 so it looks like you have to use windows to compile amforth is that right? 20:20:15 --- join: hagna_ (n=hagna@71-219-27-126.slkc.qwest.net) joined #forth 20:32:23 --- quit: hagna (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:05:03 --- quit: hagna_ ("leaving") 21:38:51 --- quit: gogonkt (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 21:38:57 --- join: gogonkt (n=info@59.38.230.26) joined #forth 23:18:21 I440r: I'll remember that. 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/09.02.21