00:00:00 --- log: started forth/09.01.08 00:06:37 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 02:03:46 --- quit: nighty__ (Client Quit) 02:06:49 --- join: qFox (i=C00K13S@132pc222.sshunet.nl) joined #forth 02:33:25 ok coding session over. you can't watch me any more 02:34:07 --- quit: JasonWoof ("off to bed") 03:10:54 :( 03:26:51 --- nick: gogonkt`` -> gogonkt 04:53:49 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-99369f6233ce7bfc) joined #forth 05:21:12 --- join: tathi (n=josh@dsl-216-227-91-166.fairpoint.net) joined #forth 05:21:12 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 05:52:14 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 07:26:37 --- quit: nighty^ ("Disappears in a puff of smoke") 07:29:04 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 07:35:21 --- join: joelr1 (n=joelr1@22.Red-83-53-201.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) joined #forth 07:35:26 good day! 07:35:53 folks, how do you fetch a 1/2 cell? @ = cell, c@ = char, what about w@? 07:36:16 oh, i'm an idiot! it exists :D 07:36:57 It isn't portable anyway. 07:37:06 So, you may define your own. 07:37:37 @ ffff and 07:38:19 asau: one more! is there a prefix for hex numbers or do i always have to put hex in front? 07:38:35 No, there 07:38:41 there isn't. 07:38:51 ok, i thought so 07:39:09 Usual solution is writing "H#" to interprete next word as hexadecimal number. 07:40:20 : h# base @ >r hex parse-name ... >number ... postpone literal ... r> base ! ; immediate 07:40:49 Like that. 07:41:15 right 07:41:16 thanks 07:48:07 --- quit: joelr1 () 08:49:34 --- join: GeDaMo (n=gedamo@dyn-62-56-77-42.dslaccess.co.uk) joined #forth 08:56:11 --- join: tathi (n=josh@dsl-216-227-91-166.fairpoint.net) joined #forth 08:56:11 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 09:09:05 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 09:14:14 --- join: joelr1 (n=joelr1@22.Red-83-53-201.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) joined #forth 09:14:31 how do you implement type for c strings? 09:14:39 i.e. print chars until you hit 0 09:16:07 scan the "string" first to determine its length? 09:16:11 : nt> dup -1 0 scan drop over - ; 09:16:27 ASau: what does nt do? 09:16:35 Magic :) 09:16:42 ( nul-term -- ptr len ) 09:17:07 ASau: cool 09:18:24 It heavily depends on 2-complement arithmetics, which is Z/2^n in fact. 09:18:25 ASau: is nt> some kind of standard naming? 09:18:30 No. 09:18:45 Gforth uses something similar AFAIR. 09:19:59 ASau: do you know what the word is called in gforth? 09:20:16 The biggest advantage of new style Forth strings is that they allow zero-copy operations. 09:20:22 No, I don't remember. 09:20:33 Read the source. :( 09:20:46 Maybe they have it in documentation, maybe not. 09:21:17 ok 09:25:14 --- quit: joelr1 () 09:39:50 ASau: new style Forth strings? 09:51:38 GeDaMo: yes. 09:52:16 Newer than addr len form? 09:52:29 No. 09:52:39 Pointer-length is new style. 09:52:46 Ok, just checking I wasn't completely out of date :P 09:52:47 As opposed to old-style counted strings. 09:52:57 Yeah 09:53:36 Unfortunatly, Forth is even more archaic than Lisp and Unix. 09:54:51 It's not archaic, it just clings to simplicity :P 09:55:20 Simplicity may be different. 09:58:37 Depends on where you want to see the simplicity. 09:59:53 If you add Ertl's garbage collection and Becher's StrongForth to ANSI Forth, you'd get a pretty decent "modern" language. 10:01:10 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@c-66-31-44-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 10:01:10 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 10:01:19 The fact that one could actually do this in a reasonably platform-neutral way speaks volumes to Forth's design. 10:03:14 Even if you stay within "no type checks, no automatic memory allocation" domain, 10:03:34 you have pretty many things under-designed or mis-designed at all. 10:05:28 For instance, in modern world you do need to understand relation between characters (bytes), memory quants, and machine words. 10:16:04 Do or do not? 10:17:09 Do. 10:39:36 --- join: neceve (n=ncv@89.45.123.2) joined #forth 11:05:03 That's hardly a failure of Forth, though. That's juse the price of processing modern text formats. 11:05:05 --- join: mathrick (n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk) joined #forth 11:06:11 Most other languages have adapted to it. 11:06:21 It has nothing to deal with text formats anyway. 11:06:50 It is simply "byte is not octet" issue. 11:08:06 How is that not a text issue? 11:08:33 It has nothing to do with text formats. 11:09:21 You're saying that the fact that some text representations require more than a single byte to store the code points possible in that representation... is not a text format issue? 11:09:38 It has nothing to do with _text_ representation. 11:09:57 I think you and I are having a vocabulary mismatch problem, here. 11:10:01 It is simply byte not equal to octet. 11:10:31 What is a byte? 11:10:46 Byte is memory cell to store one character. 11:10:53 Octet is 8 bit memory cell. 11:11:07 Wow. Ok, we disagree pretty fundamentally there. 11:11:16 I won't pursue that argument any further. 11:11:20 In PDP-11 days after advent of C someone decided that byte is octet. 11:11:32 Always. 11:11:40 Now it isn't. 11:13:18 C deals with it introducing "traditional" vs "wide character" distinction. 11:13:23 Forth doesn't deal with it at all. 11:28:04 --- join: X-Scale (i=email@89.180.175.50) joined #forth 11:38:43 --- quit: neceve (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:11:41 --- quit: GeDaMo ("Leaving.") 13:13:25 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 13:57:31 --- join: ExcelsisD (i=email@89.180.152.91) joined #forth 13:59:48 --- quit: X-Scale (Nick collision from services.) 14:00:06 --- nick: ExcelsisD -> X-Scale 14:02:30 --- join: Quartus` (n=Quartus`@74.198.12.3) joined #forth 15:02:47 --- quit: qFox (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:17:50 --- join: madgarden (n=madgarde@CPE001d7e527f89-CM00159a65a870.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 17:06:59 --- join: nighty__ (n=nighty@210.188.173.245) joined #forth 17:18:58 --- quit: ASau (Remote closed the connection) 17:19:17 --- join: ASau` (n=user@193.138.70.52) joined #forth 18:22:06 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 19:35:13 --- quit: nighty__ (Remote closed the connection) 20:16:15 --- join: nighty__ (n=nighty@210.188.173.245) joined #forth 20:48:55 --- quit: madgarden ("Leaving") 20:49:14 --- join: madgarden (n=madgarde@CPE001d7e527f89-CM00159a65a870.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 21:44:55 --- quit: mathrick (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:20:22 --- join: ExcelsisD (i=email@89.180.151.184) joined #forth 23:35:12 --- quit: X-Scale (Connection timed out) 23:50:13 --- join: qFox (i=C00K13S@132pc222.sshunet.nl) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/09.01.08