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02:17:27 <LOOP-HOG> hi
02:23:41 <LOOP-HOG> I downloaded acWEB and it was a 90K executable.  I executed it and nothing seemed to happen, I could not even find documentation.  ???
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04:36:08 <LOOP-HOG> hi
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05:12:35 <gogonkt> hi
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07:24:29 <LOOP-HOG> hi
07:26:52 <gogonkt> Wh's the hell asiForth?
07:27:00 <gogonkt> What
07:29:59 <Quartus`> why do you ask?
07:31:05 <LOOP-HOG> ansi forth?
07:31:21 <gogonkt> I saw that "ansiForth" every where
07:31:30 <gogonkt> is that use for?
07:31:39 <Quartus`> check the topic for links.
07:32:03 <gogonkt> is that useful?
07:33:26 <LOOP-HOG> ansi forth is a forth standard that came after Forth 83
07:33:27 <gogonkt> forthfreak.net blocked :(
07:33:31 <Quartus`> no, of course not.
07:33:53 <LOOP-HOG> it is so that many forths that people create have the same words
07:34:00 <LOOP-HOG> so if you learn one forth you already know some others
07:34:20 <gogonkt> o...thx
07:34:44 <Quartus`> but your gavino-points just went up by one.
07:35:23 <LOOP-HOG> what is this thing, " gavino-points "???
07:35:32 <gogonkt> which one sould I use in windows and linux?
07:36:16 <Quartus`> another point. Gavino, you were banned. Go away now.
07:36:23 <LOOP-HOG> do you have some money to spend, if so, then why not get SwiftForth
07:37:31 <LOOP-HOG> if you don't, then there is win32forth
07:37:49 <LOOP-HOG> linux I don't know but maybe gforth
07:38:18 <gogonkt> mm
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07:41:32 <LOOP-HOG> Quartus
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07:41:53 <Quartus`> yo
07:42:49 <LOOP-HOG> do you have an opinion on using forth instead of php or perl for custom web scripts
07:43:17 <Quartus`> I've used it for a few things; works fine.
07:43:35 <LOOP-HOG> what forth, what os?
07:43:55 <Quartus`> gforth under bsd
07:44:14 <LOOP-HOG> I have not done anything like this before
07:44:37 <LOOP-HOG> I suppose that I would have to set up a linux server in my home
07:44:47 <Quartus`> no different than using any given programming language for the task
07:44:48 <LOOP-HOG> and then put gforth onto it
07:45:08 <Quartus`> uh, I suppose you could. Most people use a hosting service.
07:45:37 <LOOP-HOG> I'd rather use a hosting service, install gforth onto that, and then program it remotely
07:45:43 <LOOP-HOG> but do I get interactivity that way
07:45:55 <TreyB> If you go that route you'll need the ability to install gforth (or whatever) on the server.
07:45:58 <Quartus`> that would make more sense.
07:46:12 <LOOP-HOG> can I open up a window which would be a forth command line and bang on the gforth on the remote server?
07:46:52 <Quartus`> You can ssh in to most hosting accounts, and use them interactively.  I host with Pair.
07:47:08 <LOOP-HOG> ok, use ssh
07:47:37 <LOOP-HOG> I could probably add a shell account to my current hosting
07:47:41 <gogonkt> ssh and forth you can, Im do this.
07:48:02 <LOOP-HOG> I ought to ask, or find out somehow, if I can install gforth onto my host
07:48:05 <LOOP-HOG> it is lunarpages
07:49:39 <LOOP-HOG> then I compile gforth with the built in C
07:49:54 <LOOP-HOG> I would have to find out if I get access to the built in C
07:50:01 <LOOP-HOG> I should contact lunarpages about this
07:50:17 <LOOP-HOG> any other thoughts people?
07:50:20 <gogonkt> apt-get install gforth
07:50:52 <gogonkt> or something like that
07:51:44 <LOOP-HOG> what is ape-get?
07:54:23 <TreyB> apt-get retrieves and installs packages on Debian-based Linux systems.
08:00:44 <LOOP-HOG> that is a unix command?
08:06:10 <gogonkt> I thank "make" and "make install" is easy
08:10:08 <LOOP-HOG> that is a clue, thanks
08:10:38 <LOOP-HOG> but what if I crash my Forth program on the server, how do I reset?
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08:40:23 <qFox> have a second thread looping to check whether the service crashed and restart it if so?
08:40:38 <qFox> (i only read the last line so idk if that's feasible at all ;)
08:41:26 <qFox> also, today i figured out that i was confused as far as the forthdrive goes
08:41:30 <qFox> the ram and rom is 64 words
08:41:37 <qFox> but i thought they were talking about forth words
08:41:51 <qFox> not sure how they were implemented, but somehow limited to a 64 word dictionary
08:42:14 <qFox> well, instead they were "obviously" talking about instruction words.
08:42:34 <qFox> which also explained some of the comments a friend of mine had about that limit :p
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08:51:08 <gogonkt> ?
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09:03:33 <LOOP-HOG> qFox
09:03:57 <LOOP-HOG> it is 64, 18 bit memory words of ROM, *AND*  64, 18 bit memory words of RAM
09:04:05 <qFox> aye
09:04:09 <LOOP-HOG> if you do a large run, you can cusomtize the ROM
09:04:15 <qFox> but its 64 * 4 slots each
09:04:20 <LOOP-HOG> yeah
09:04:25 <qFox> (if you count the fourth slot as a whole anyways)
09:04:33 <LOOP-HOG> so it's puny
09:04:37 <qFox> that's what i did not get. instruction word vs forth word
09:04:42 <LOOP-HOG> but you spread your app across multiple processors
09:04:43 <qFox> so i do now :)
09:04:50 <qFox> well yeah, i know that
09:05:10 <qFox> i just didnt know exactly about capacitity. or rather, i missunderstood since they talked about words
09:05:14 <qFox> i plainly asumed forth words
09:05:21 <LOOP-HOG> So... 128 40 * 5120 memory cells for the whole die
09:05:34 <qFox> i have the 24 core version :(
09:05:47 <LOOP-HOG> 128 40 *  4 *  20480 slots
09:05:50 <LOOP-HOG> if I am not mistaken
09:05:54 <qFox> and that is the optimal upperbound, which you won't really ever reach
09:06:04 <LOOP-HOG> right
09:06:24 <qFox> i'm gonna start with a md5 brute force algo
09:06:34 <qFox> see if i can whip that up
09:06:36 <LOOP-HOG> did you get a Forth Drive?
09:06:39 <qFox> yeah
09:06:42 <LOOP-HOG> cool!
09:06:45 <qFox> yeah :)
09:06:51 <LOOP-HOG> YOO HOO!
09:07:00 <qFox> just send them a mail and try
09:07:01 <LOOP-HOG> how did you get them to give you one?
09:07:14 <LOOP-HOG> I might go down to San Jose for Forth Day
09:07:19 <LOOP-HOG> I'm hoping
09:07:31 <qFox> send them an email, telling them what yo uwant to do with it etc
09:07:36 <LOOP-HOG> then maybe they will just feel sorry for me and give me one
09:07:41 <LOOP-HOG> what did you tell them that you wanted to do?
09:07:54 <qFox> a course called distributed programming
09:08:02 <LOOP-HOG> ?
09:08:16 <LOOP-HOG> create a course of your own?
09:08:23 <qFox> oh, no, at university
09:08:32 <LOOP-HOG> are you a professor?
09:08:33 <qFox> a course about distributed and parallel programming
09:08:40 <qFox> heh, no, a mere student
09:08:48 <LOOP-HOG> ah
09:09:03 <qFox> did show it to my teacher though, he seemed moderately impressed
09:09:04 <LOOP-HOG> I could conceptualize a toy
09:09:25 <LOOP-HOG> like maybe a LED light show toy, with fractal patterns
09:10:22 <LOOP-HOG> tell us what you think after a few weeks of using it
09:10:59 <LOOP-HOG> I have to log out
09:11:09 <LOOP-HOG> see you later
09:11:12 <qFox> later
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09:20:19 <gogonkt> qFox: wow, cool!
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10:11:53 <ASau> Dobra vecer!
10:12:43 <gogonkt> ???
10:13:16 <tathi> Hi ASau 
10:13:18 <ASau> The first person, whom I see logged in, is Maki.
10:13:47 <tathi> Is that good?
10:14:26 <ASau> That explains "dobra vecer".
10:15:14 <Maki_> Dobra vecer ASau
10:15:39 <tathi> Ah, I see. :)
10:16:16 <ASau> Alright, let's devote this evening to Forth-related parts of projects...
10:17:21 <tathi> Sounds like a good idea to me. :)
10:17:27 <Maki_> I've recently used Forth to program motor inside my telescope :)
10:18:54 <ASau> Clever Forther Revival? :D
10:19:26 <Maki_> To be accurate: Microcontroller was driving motor and is programmed in Forth
10:19:27 <ASau> Today's Gforth installs 3 more files :)
10:20:21 <Maki_> Ehh, when You think in another language...
10:20:36 <Maki_> ASau: 3 more files?
10:20:41 <ASau> I think in my native language.
10:20:44 <ASau> Maki_: Yes.
10:21:00 <Maki_> what are those?
10:21:01 <ASau> vmgen, vmgen-VERSION and vmgen.info
10:21:16 <ASau> I override version with 0.6.99.
10:23:31 <Maki_> I have version 0.6.9 installed
10:24:34 <Maki_> Have you uset this vm thingy?
10:25:25 <ASau> No.
10:25:27 <tathi> vmgen generates code for VMs
10:26:04 <tathi> It's used to create gforth, also used by some other VM projects, I think.
10:32:58 <slava> hi tathi
10:37:52 <Maki_> Some time ago I've read an article in FD about wireless network programmed in Forth. But I can't find it now.
10:38:23 <Maki_> Routing information was compiled directly to dict.
10:38:49 <Maki_> And code was transported over the network
10:39:05 <Maki_> It was a nice project...
10:40:13 <qFox> slava: i found a forum post somewhere where you stated factor had a md5 implementation
10:40:21 <qFox> the link was dead and i couldnt find it from the root of the domain
10:40:30 <qFox> but is it reasonably small?
10:50:35 <ASau> qFox: it depends on your definition of "reasonable".
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10:56:16 <qFox> well all i really need is a function that gets the hash for a given string
10:56:24 <qFox> i found a forth implementation but it was very bloated
10:57:01 <ASau> qFox: you can use almost any PRNG for that purpose.
10:57:23 <qFox> no dice
10:57:29 <qFox> this is for the seaforth
10:57:31 <ASau> I don't remember details, but there's a way.
10:57:53 <ASau> You just seed PRNG with part of your string and perform some convolution.
10:58:09 <ASau> I had it in my notes, but I don't remember where.
10:58:17 <qFox> i'm not sure where the prng comes in
10:58:20 <ASau> Maybe it is on paper somewhere.
10:58:24 <qFox> afaik md5 is a fixed algo
10:58:28 <qFox> no random anywhere
10:58:54 <ASau> PRNG is just a way to generate uniform sequence, which is rather hard to predict.
11:01:01 <ASau> So, your that your seed is uniformly distributed over some numeric interval.
11:01:01 <ASau> That's what you want hash for.
11:01:01 <ASau> I repeat, I don't remember details, but there _is_ such way.
11:01:02 <ASau> You may want to google for it, if you want.
11:01:02 <ASau> And there's enough rather easy PRNGs around.
11:01:03 <ASau> E.g. Tausworthe type.
11:01:06 <qFox> lag.
11:01:40 <ASau> In most cases, even LCG is enough for your purpose.
11:01:44 <ENKI-][> either nothing is random or everything is random. i personally believe both.
11:02:01 <qFox> i believe in determinism, but that's another matter alltogether
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11:02:16 <qFox> ASau> yeah but i want to create a small md5 brute forcer
11:02:38 <ASau> qFox: rainbow attack?
11:02:44 <qFox> so i'm just gonne let some cores create hashes and let other cores compare the generated hash
11:02:49 <qFox> no
11:02:55 <qFox> realtime generation
11:03:29 <qFox> unless you did not mean using a precomputed hash database
11:03:37 <qFox> (aka, rainbow)
11:04:47 <qFox> i want to create two ways actually. a simple tree search and a "random" search. one program need little modification to become the other
11:05:00 <qFox> nothing serious
11:05:07 <qFox> just to get used to how seaforth works
11:05:39 <qFox> but maybe i'll go for an easier program. a quicksort perhaps
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12:45:01 <tathi> qFox: I think md5 would be a bit tricky on a seaforth chip; it has enough state data that you'd need to spread it over several cores...
12:45:15 <tathi> And of course you'd have to do 32-bit arithmetic.
12:45:27 <qFox> that's what i was about to say worried me more
12:45:36 <qFox> i'm going to try a quicksort algo instead
12:46:29 <tathi> The arithmetic?
12:46:37 <qFox> yeah
12:46:43 <qFox> 32bit on a 18bit system
12:47:01 <tathi> I would think that would be the easy part.
12:47:18 <qFox> it'd be the annoying part. md5 looks pretty straightforward
12:47:45 <TreyB_> In 18 bits?  That'll suck.
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12:47:59 <tathi> Isn't it just double-precision plus a bitmask?
12:48:11 <qFox> maybe but i've never implemented that either
12:48:13 <qFox> :)
12:48:21 <tathi> Ah.
12:48:46 <qFox> right now i cant even get win32forth to syntax highlight in the editor :(
12:49:57 <qFox> must be doing something wrong. whatever
13:02:39 <ASau> Doubling precision (integer) is rather easy.
13:03:30 <ASau> MD5 is 64-bit, AFAIR.
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13:29:51 <tathi> OK, I need to drop this before I get sucked in.  MD5 would be fun on a seaforth chip. :)
13:30:32 <qFox> quicksort actually has its own challenge
13:30:46 <qFox> i mean, quicksort by itself is one thing, but probably pretty straightforward
13:30:51 <qFox> however, making use of the cores
13:30:53 <qFox> it seems trivial
13:31:03 <qFox> to just divide and conquer
13:31:23 <tathi> But the devil is in the details?
13:31:32 <qFox> keep one partition and pass the second partition on to a neighbor core
13:31:41 <qFox> well, its putting it all back together, in proper order
13:31:52 <tathi> ah.
13:31:53 <qFox> you need to keep tabs in what you send to whom
13:33:05 <qFox> but for the moment i'm humoring myself with blinktest :p
13:34:28 <Maki_> So you have the hardware?
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13:34:59 <qFox> think i'm gonna print out a big sheet with the instructions and their restricted slots though
13:35:00 <qFox> ye
13:35:24 <qFox> but you develop with the sim first anyways
13:38:50 <qFox> lets see if i can get sos :p
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14:17:06 <Quartus`> Hi.
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15:02:59 <ENKI-][> qFox: what is this you're working with? a multi-core forth machine?
15:14:18 <qFox> yes, SEAforth
15:15:04 <qFox> http://www.intellasys.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=60&Itemid=75
15:15:08 <qFox> off to bed though/ gnite
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22:56:35 <gogonkt> howdy
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23:40:26 <Michael_1707> Hello.
23:44:04 <gogonkt> :D
23:44:53 <gogonkt> how to write words handle website api?
23:45:21 <gogonkt> any example?
23:53:29 <Michael_1707> Do you mean how do you parse HTML in Forth?
23:57:18 <gogonkt> want to code a client for that http://slimtimer.com/help/api
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