00:00:00 --- log: started forth/08.09.12 00:01:15 --- part: edrx left #forth 00:07:53 --- join: Myoma (n=witch@amcant.demon.co.uk) joined #forth 00:14:06 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:14:48 --- join: proteusguy (n=proteusg@ppp-124-120-226-193.revip2.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 00:45:09 --- join: Malfermi1aKodo (n=kansu@xdsl-78-34-128-222.netcologne.de) joined #forth 00:57:01 --- quit: MalfermitaKodo (Connection timed out) 01:05:26 --- join: qFox (i=C00K13S@132pc222.sshunet.nl) joined #forth 01:22:38 --- quit: BobFunk () 03:18:26 --- join: lasts (n=lasts@77.207.25.109) joined #forth 04:10:02 --- quit: nighty^ (Excess Flood) 04:19:58 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 04:29:19 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:37:53 --- quit: nighty^ (Connection timed out) 04:39:05 --- quit: Baughn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:39:07 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 04:40:03 --- quit: mathrick (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:41:30 --- join: Baughn (n=svein@084202038064.customer.alfanett.no) joined #forth 04:44:18 --- quit: nighty^ (Excess Flood) 04:50:11 --- quit: nighty__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:51:30 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 04:56:33 --- join: nighty__ (n=nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 05:06:15 --- quit: Baughn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:06:26 --- join: Baughn (n=svein@084202038064.customer.alfanett.no) joined #forth 05:09:21 --- quit: nighty^ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:10:12 --- quit: nighty__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:10:55 --- join: nighty__ (n=nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 05:15:41 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 05:22:42 --- quit: Baughn (Connection reset by peer) 05:30:33 --- join: Baughn (n=svein@084202038064.customer.alfanett.no) joined #forth 05:41:53 --- join: Baughn_ (n=svein@084202038064.customer.alfanett.no) joined #forth 05:42:43 --- quit: Baughn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:44:58 --- quit: nighty__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:05:33 --- join: ASau` (n=user@host13-231-msk.microtest.ru) joined #forth 06:05:41 --- join: Baughn (n=svein@084202038064.customer.alfanett.no) joined #forth 06:09:05 --- join: ASau`` (n=user@host13-231-msk.microtest.ru) joined #forth 06:09:51 --- quit: ASau` (Remote closed the connection) 06:12:20 --- quit: Baughn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:12:25 --- join: Baughn__ (n=svein@084202038064.customer.alfanett.no) joined #forth 06:25:00 --- join: ASau``` (n=user@host13-231-msk.microtest.ru) joined #forth 06:28:16 --- join: ASau```` (n=user@host13-231-msk.microtest.ru) joined #forth 06:28:45 --- quit: Baughn__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:31:21 --- quit: Baughn_ (Connection reset by peer) 06:32:22 --- join: Baughn (n=svein@084202038064.customer.alfanett.no) joined #forth 06:43:33 --- quit: ASau``` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:52:26 --- quit: Quartus` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:55:10 --- quit: ASau`` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:00:02 --- quit: Baughn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:00:13 --- join: Baughn (n=svein@084202038064.customer.alfanett.no) joined #forth 07:11:04 --- nick: ASau```` -> ASau` 07:11:48 --- quit: TreyB (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 07:45:12 --- quit: aguai ("leaving") 07:45:29 --- join: aguai (n=aguai@122-116-183-8.HINET-IP.hinet.net) joined #forth 07:53:15 --- join: bjorkBSD (n=rachel@ip72-204-41-71.fv.ks.cox.net) joined #forth 07:54:23 i thought there was another forth channel somewhere? 07:54:52 EFNet? 07:55:42 no on freenode. 07:55:49 ##forth 07:55:49 --- quit: ASau` ("Weekend.") 07:55:50 i thought it was forthers. or something. 07:55:54 ah okay. 07:56:05 thank you. 07:56:07 --- part: bjorkBSD left #forth 08:41:39 --- join: neceve (n=ncv@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 09:12:54 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:16:17 --- join: proteusguy (n=proteusg@61.7.144.97) joined #forth 09:40:10 --- quit: proteusguy ("Leaving") 09:45:58 --- join: proteusguy (n=proteusg@61.7.144.97) joined #forth 09:48:58 --- join: aguaithefreak (n=aguaithe@118-169-165-50.dynamic.hinet.net) joined #forth 10:07:34 --- quit: aguai (Connection timed out) 10:15:08 --- join: ncv (n=ncv@89.45.123.2) joined #forth 10:29:19 --- quit: neceve (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:36:27 anybody know a program like tee but which inserts sub-second-accurate timestamps at the begining of each line? 10:37:34 --- join: aguai (n=aguai@122-116-183-8.HINET-IP.hinet.net) joined #forth 10:37:39 --- join: forther (n=forther@creek-rf.minerva.com) joined #forth 10:38:48 JasonWoof: see daemontools after Dan Bernstein. 10:40:17 daemontools! 10:40:27 I was thinking of Bernstein, but I couldn't think what package it would be in 10:40:41 shame is stuff is a pita to install 10:40:47 ??? 10:40:54 It installs pretty easily. 11:02:51 --- quit: aguai (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:08:17 --- quit: ncv (Remote closed the connection) 11:10:47 --- part: forther left #forth 11:16:46 --- join: aguai (n=aguai@122-116-183-8.HINET-IP.hinet.net) joined #forth 11:30:29 --- nick: Malfermi1aKodo -> MalfermitaKodo 11:32:42 --- join: mathrick (n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk) joined #forth 12:07:53 ASau: sorry, I meant making a .deb 12:08:31 That's problem of debian. 12:08:34 --- join: iano (n=iosgood@sub26-46.member.dsl-only.net) joined #forth 12:09:28 that's a problem of Dan Burnstein not giving a good license 12:09:56 It isn't. 12:10:04 That's debian problem. 12:10:24 Bernstein's license was good and now it is even better. 12:14:32 also, his code doesn't build on my box 12:15:20 I use NetBSD, FreeBSD, and the code builds pretty well. 12:15:34 Debian problem. 12:15:40 can't find the damn license 12:15:44 Obviously. 12:16:20 all I find is: "Copyright 2001 12:16:20 D. J. Bernstein 12:16:54 sure, I installed it on my freebsd server with no problems 12:16:57 it has a port 12:17:45 maybe it's just qmail that has the crappy license? 12:17:52 http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/11/30/0430201.shtml 12:18:56 If you are so concerned of debian licence policy, why don't you follow news? 12:22:11 --- join: langmartin (n=user@75.148.111.133) joined #forth 12:23:07 oh, he recently released everything into the public domain 12:23:09 that's cool 12:23:28 there's too much news in the world to follow it all 12:25:27 It seems that you prefer to follow crappy debian policies instead. 12:25:39 follow? 12:26:01 I just want a program like tai64n 12:26:14 but preferably one that prints the date in a human-readable way 12:26:25 I want it to run on my computer 12:26:27 You started talking about licence: 12:26:30 that's a problem of Dan Burnstein not giving a good license 12:26:42 Bernstein licence was good always. 12:26:47 no it wasn't 12:26:50 It was. 12:26:58 you weren't allowed to distribute modified versions of qmail 12:26:59 You could use software. 12:27:13 You could distribute diffs, and that's fine. 12:27:23 that's damn annoying 12:27:44 Embedded vendor patches are damn annoying, diffs are not. 12:27:50 I want to type a command (a simple one that I'm used to) and get the software installed 12:27:58 diffs are annoying 12:27:59 This command is "make install". 12:28:03 no it's not! 12:28:06 It is. 12:28:14 look, I just downloaded daemon tools 12:28:20 there's no makefile in the top-level dir 12:28:31 That's debian problem. 12:28:38 Neither BSD has it. 12:28:39 I went to the src dir, and typed: make tai64n 12:28:43 it compiled some stuff, then gave an error 12:28:47 said a file was missing 12:29:01 Even Solaris and HP-UX doesn't. 12:29:01 that file is created by typing "package/compile" 12:29:11 nothing *&(@#$*&@ to do with debian 12:29:20 I downloaded the source code from his website 12:29:22 Everything to do with debian. 12:29:24 since my distro doesn't have it 12:29:44 They have pretty much man power to deal with automated building. 12:29:46 I'm guessing (guessing) that this is because his license policy used to not be so good 12:29:56 Licence is pretty good. 12:30:00 now it's fine 12:30:03 last year, not so much 12:30:04 You can use software. 12:30:08 Even before. 12:30:14 I'm talking about convenience 12:30:21 It is convenient. 12:30:22 I'm sure I could get the damn thing installed eventually 12:30:45 Even in 2005 it was as convenient, as today. 12:30:50 his license discorages some packagers, and doesn't meet some distros' guidelines 12:30:52 former license 12:30:53 The command was the same: make install. 12:31:06 That's problem of packagers. 12:31:16 And distributions. 12:31:19 that command "make install" is not in the software you can download from Dan 12:31:34 I dissagree. I like the debian packaging guidelines 12:31:36 They could follow simple way, which complies with licence. 12:31:44 it encourages people like Dan Bernstein not to be a pita 12:31:46 Then it's your problem too. :) 12:32:08 I prefer separate diffs. 12:32:12 I want to type "apt-get install daemontools" 12:32:22 I'm pretty sure that was against his licensing terms last year 12:32:25 At least, I don't get broken PRNGs. 12:32:37 I don't know for sure, but I know it was against the qmail licensing terms, and I'm guessing they were the same 12:32:52 "make install" is as simple, and it complies. 12:33:00 Hence, that's debian problem only. 12:33:04 THERE IS NO "make install" IN HIS PACKAGE 12:33:12 THERE IS NO "make install" IN HIS PACKAGE 12:33:13 THERE IS NO "make install" IN HIS PACKAGE 12:33:14 That's debian problem. 12:33:16 it's not there 12:33:19 you're a debian problem 12:33:23 I don't even have debian 12:33:30 why do you keep saying that? 12:33:34 Why do you refer to debian then? 12:34:12 because I have a hunch that the reason there is no package on my distro is that dan's former license didn't meet debians packaging policy 12:34:29 where does this logic fall apart for you? 12:34:44 Then it is problem of your distribution, which follows the same stupid policy, as debian. 12:35:05 My system didn't make such mistake. 12:35:06 dan's old license sucked -> debian didn't include it -> ubuntu didn't include it -> I have to build from source -> source is crappy and old and DOES NOT CONTAIN A "make install" 12:35:34 well good for your distro 12:35:43 Debian licence policy sucks -> debian didn't include Dan's package. 12:36:05 Hence ubuntu and all debian derivatives. 12:36:06 my distro can install packages rediculously quickly and conveniently, so long as their licenses allow binary distrobution 12:36:26 what's wrong with the debian license policy? 12:36:37 "make bin-install" falls back to "make install". 12:36:38 what I want is explicitly against dan's old licence policy 12:36:57 ASau: there is to "make install" in daemontools. look yourself 12:36:58 Then it is your personal problem either. 12:37:12 It is in pkgsrc and ports. 12:37:20 daemontools-0.76> grep -r install . 12:37:25 only finds CHANGES files 12:37:41 yse, freebsd is a source-based distro genious 12:37:57 I'm using a binary distrobution, which is not allowed by bernsteins old license 12:37:57 stat /usr/pkgsrc/sysutils/daemontools/Makefile 12:38:05 --- quit: aguai (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:38:11 ASau: that's part of ports, not daemontools 12:38:24 It deals pretty well with binary packages and source ones. 12:38:24 that's a file from your distro 12:38:33 It isn't file from my distro. 12:38:45 download daemontools from cr.yp.to 12:38:48 It is from package system, which is cross-platform. 12:38:50 it contains no make install 12:39:01 I don't care, how it works inside. 12:39:09 I use simple command "make install". 12:39:17 I don't have that command 12:39:25 there's no "make install" in the source code that I got 12:39:26 And it does everything for me. 12:39:32 if there is a filed called "Makefile" 12:39:38 do you think the solution you're giving will work on my computer? 12:39:43 if not you can try "./configure" sometimes makes the Makefileao 12:39:57 If "apt-get" doesn't build package from source, that's debian problem. 12:40:07 Myoma: there's no ./configure, and the Makefile he's got has no "install" target 12:40:10 before all this of course, checking the readme.. sometimes said that they use 'scons' or some new age crap 12:40:45 here's the entirity of the README: 12:40:46 Copyright 2001 12:40:46 D. J. Bernstein 12:40:46 http://cr.yp.to/daemontools.html 12:40:57 So what? 12:41:17 ASau: do you have any actual helpful advice, like how I could get this installed? 12:41:25 Yes. 12:41:28 I don't have your BSD package manager, so that's useless 12:41:29 did you try http://cr.yp.to/daemontools/install.html ? 12:41:32 Install pkgsrc and build it. 12:41:38 Install it then. 12:41:54 There're people, who use it even on debian. 12:41:55 seems a little overkill 12:42:28 Hm. 12:42:47 I don't see a package for pkgsrc either 12:42:50 Writing tool of similar functionality is a bit bigger overkill. 12:43:10 I'm looking for an easy way to compile tai64n 12:43:12 that's all I want 12:43:27 on my linux box 12:43:51 I've got it on my freebsd server, but that doesn't help me, because I'd like to use it to help debug a graphical program 12:44:23 Get patches from pkgsrc and build it. 12:54:51 JasonWoof: did you follow the build instructions at http://cr.yp.to/daemontools/install.html ? did they work? 12:55:56 you'll probably need this as well: http://www.qmail.org/moni.csi.hu/pub/glibc-2.3.1/daemontools-0.76.errno.patch 13:00:11 oh sheesh 13:00:25 http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=default§ion=all&arch=any&searchon=names&keywords=daemontools 13:00:48 so the next release of ubuntu has the packege 13:00:53 set to be released in a month or two 13:01:14 and the previous three releases (before the one I'm at) have daemontools-installer 13:01:18 and I get nothing 13:03:12 langmartin: not exactly... I'm not making a folder in / 13:03:17 it's not *that* bad if you apply the patch and the run ./package/install; it's worked for me a quite a couple of unixes 13:03:19 but when I run package/compile I get this: 13:03:22 /usr/bin/ld: errno: TLS definition in /lib/libc.so.6 section .tbss mismatches non-TLS reference in envdir.o 13:03:32 that's the envdir patch missing 13:04:06 the package has references to the /package path, so you should at least make a symlinked copy there while you build it, IIRC 13:05:57 changing the subject, is gforth a good starting place? 13:06:18 I'm a schemer, never written a bit of forth 13:10:00 yeah, gforth is a good start 13:10:10 unless you want to do graphics right away or something 13:10:29 gforth doesn't interract much with your system 13:10:42 but it's quite standard 13:10:48 most code you find around works on it 13:10:53 and people are usually familiar with it 13:15:31 if you want to do graphics and are familiar with scheme, try factor 13:17:07 --- join: Malfermi1aKodo (n=kansu@xdsl-78-34-130-41.netcologne.de) joined #forth 13:17:14 --- quit: MalfermitaKodo (Nick collision from services.) 13:17:19 --- nick: Malfermi1aKodo -> MalfermitaKodo 13:21:32 at last! http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/d/daemontools/daemontools_0.76-3_i386.deb 13:22:05 langmartin: oooh, you might like factor a lot 13:22:12 I'll check it out 13:22:14 thanks 13:22:14 langmartin: it's not really forth, but very cool 13:22:31 draws heavily from forth and lisp 13:22:38 I think... 13:22:45 well, it's got velociraptors so that can't be bad 13:22:58 I've not used factor much, and don't know the difference between lisp and scheme 13:23:07 hehe 13:23:46 slava: you don't happen to be the the lead developer on factor, do you? 13:25:06 i am 13:25:25 that's why i'm pimping it so hard in here :) 13:28:06 quite understandable 13:31:09 --- join: BobFunk (n=mathiasc@121.pool85-61-95.dynamic.orange.es) joined #forth 13:32:03 --- join: aguai (n=aguai@122-116-183-8.HINET-IP.hinet.net) joined #forth 13:40:56 --- quit: BobFunk () 13:52:19 --- join: BobFunk (n=mathiasc@121.pool85-61-95.dynamic.orange.es) joined #forth 14:29:27 --- quit: qFox (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:38:14 --- quit: BobFunk () 14:44:28 --- quit: langmartin ("ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)") 14:53:44 --- quit: tarbo (Connection timed out) 15:42:22 --- quit: lasts (Remote closed the connection) 16:08:29 --- join: Deformative (n=joe@c-68-62-76-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) joined #forth 16:54:40 --- quit: iano () 18:08:23 --- join: Rodo12 (i=Rodo12@v-209-98-172-177.mn.visi.com) joined #forth 18:27:34 --- quit: Rodo12 () 18:41:28 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 23:20:31 --- join: BobFunk (n=mathiasc@121.pool85-61-95.dynamic.orange.es) joined #forth 23:35:44 --- quit: JasonWoof ("off to bed") 23:47:39 --- quit: BobFunk () 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/08.09.12