00:00:00 --- log: started forth/08.08.02 00:28:08 --- part: kar8nga left #forth 00:53:45 --- join: aum (n=aum@60-234-243-247.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth 01:13:44 --- join: qFox (i=C00K13S@234pc222.sshunet.nl) joined #forth 01:48:50 --- join: ASau` (n=user@79.111.36.149) joined #forth 02:13:53 --- quit: aum (Remote closed the connection) 03:15:46 --- join: aph__ (n=aph@cpc3-cmbg8-0-0-cust128.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) joined #forth 03:26:35 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-3b2572808413f630) joined #forth 04:23:02 --- join: kar8nga (n=ctc@m-167.vc-graz.ac.at) joined #forth 06:27:09 --- quit: kar8nga ("Leaving.") 06:42:30 --- join: ecraven (n=nex@plc31-103.linzag.net) joined #forth 07:14:38 --- join: hml (n=x@unaffiliated/hml) joined #forth 07:14:38 i 07:14:45 im following: http://home.iae.nl/users/mhx/sf3/sf3.html 07:15:10 i have typed into blocksl.fb the correct content, minus the linue numbers 07:15:14 i type in use blocks.fb 07:15:15 1 07:15:16 load 07:15:18 f 07:15:22 but it says the word f is undefined 07:16:13 hmm, it 07:16:21 its not loading in blocks.fb correctly 07:16:32 1 list ( this outputs nothing ) 07:17:39 --- join: kar8nga (n=ctc@k-131.vc-graz.ac.at) joined #forth 07:49:54 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 07:49:54 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 07:51:33 hml: don't use blocks 07:52:15 well, you could, but a block file is not just an ordinary text file; it has no newline characters 07:53:27 though I don't think feeding it a regular text file should make it fail to load... 07:55:55 oh...you might need to pad it with 1024 spaces at the beginning; it's probably showing up in block 0 instead of 1. 07:58:39 http://home.iae.nl/users/mhx/sf3/blocks.gfb 08:01:42 I e-mailed Marcel to fix the link... 08:05:09 okay 08:05:12 what should I do? 08:05:17 should i be not yusing gforth? 08:05:17 i 08:05:22 i'm a forth newb 08:05:25 tell me the best approach 08:05:35 i just want to code in vim and load it up in forth :-) 08:05:40 tathi: ^^ 08:11:42 gforth includes a special Emacs mode, if you're into that kind of thing. 08:16:38 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:23:27 at th emoment, i 08:23:36 ll just be happy being able to load in a n outside *.fb file 08:58:33 --- join: Raystm2 (i=Ray@unaffiliated/raystm2) joined #forth 09:36:15 --- quit: kar8nga ("Leaving.") 09:37:21 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@c-76-118-21-78.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:37:21 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 09:37:36 I'm online! 09:37:58 disabled a bunch of stuff in the bios, and now my wireless card is working again 09:38:06 well, that's the last thing I did anyway 09:38:24 could have been the fiddling I did with network-admin before shutting down though 09:38:51 I rather despise NetworkManager, though I haven't uninstalled it 09:41:37 read something that suggested that I might have an IRQ conflict, and that I should disable pnp 09:41:55 didn't see that in the bios, but disabled some weird stuff like usb emulation and the modem 09:54:18 --- join: fwiffo (i=none@unaffiliated/fwiffo) joined #forth 10:01:00 hml: sorry, was working. 10:01:19 Just put your forth code in files and load them with "include foo.f" or whatever 10:01:47 gforth also has "require" which is an include-once sort of thing 10:31:41 tathi: that did it; thanks! 10:40:02 sure 11:18:38 --- join: kar8nga (n=ctc@j-175.vc-graz.ac.at) joined #forth 11:36:08 --- quit: JasonWoof ("off to camp!") 11:38:18 --- quit: gnomon ("leaving") 11:41:52 --- quit: tgunr ("Leaving...") 11:55:41 --- quit: fwiffo (Remote closed the connection) 12:13:48 --- quit: Quartus` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:16:43 --- join: BobFunk (n=mathiasc@172.pool85-54-177.dynamic.orange.es) joined #forth 12:52:48 --- join: binaryguy (n=binarygu@host86-150-31-139.range86-150.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 13:05:00 --- quit: BobFunk () 13:05:32 --- part: binaryguy left #forth 13:06:42 --- quit: kar8nga (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:09:53 --- join: kar8nga (n=ctc@m-230.vc-graz.ac.at) joined #forth 13:54:41 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 14:07:38 --- part: hml left #forth 14:47:49 --- quit: kar8nga ("Leaving.") 14:49:18 --- join: muntyan (n=muntyan@pool-71-126-204-74.herntx.dsl-w.verizon.net) joined #forth 14:51:05 hi guys, please don't flame me. could someone tell what PRIVATE, PRIVATES, DEPRIVE, FORGET are? is it compiler directives or something else? i need to make up a name for these in a syntax highlighting definition file, and i don't know forth at all. the original author called it "compiler opt" and that's meaningless, and translators aren't happy 14:51:28 Everything is a word. 14:51:59 What you're asking for is implementation-dependant, 14:52:22 except FORGET, which was common before ANS-94. 14:53:31 i've got these here: PRIVATE, PRIVATES, DEPRIVE, FORGET, IMMEDIATE, ALSO, ONLY, FORTH, DEFINITIONS, HEADERLESS 14:54:32 About FORGET, IMMEDIATE, ALSO, ONLY, FORTH, and DEFINITIONS read the standard. 14:54:52 Others are implementation-dependent and uncontrolled. 14:55:07 but i am not interested in the language itself. i just need some human-understandable name for those, like "keyword" or "type" or "directive" or something like that. except "keyword" and "type" are taken 14:55:17 Word. 14:55:22 http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gtksourceview/trunk/gtksourceview/language-specs/forth.lang?view=markup - this is what i work with 14:56:09 You can't write to any extent good syntax highlighting, 14:56:10 unless you really know the language. 14:56:44 i am not writing it 14:56:55 i need to replace "Compiler opt" with something which can be translated, that's all 14:57:00 and you know the language ;) 14:57:40 Well, what I see there is completely wrong and requires major rewrite. 14:57:45 I'm not interested in it. 14:58:13 --- join: hml (n=x@unaffiliated/hml) joined #forth 14:58:15 I ( -- n ) Copies the top of the return stack without affecting it. I 14:58:18 R@ ( -- n ) Copies the top of the return stack without affecting it. 14:58:24 is there an error in this documnentation? 14:58:26 http://home.iae.nl/users/mhx/sf5/sf5.html 14:58:56 Yes, there is. 14:59:09 I is for indexed loop. 14:59:26 It may differ from TORS. 14:59:40 if i don 15:00:18 if i dont empty out hte return stack by the time i finish the function; does forth take of the top element from the return stack and try to jump to that 'function' ? 15:00:34 "I" is current (innermost) loop index, it is meaningful only when you have one in current word. 15:00:58 hml: that's highly implementation-dependent. 15:01:54 Read recent discussions in clf, Rather provided good explanation for that. 15:02:23 what 15:02:24 s clf? 15:02:29 comp.lang.forth 15:03:05 Forth community is mostly USENET-centric. 15:04:59 In short, "return stack" may differ from return stack, and contain no activation records at all. 15:05:30 The name is just historical, like CAR and CDR in Lisp. 15:05:43 what\ 15:05:50 what is the use of */ 15:06:01 http://home.iae.nl/users/mhx/sf5/sf5.html is confusing me on this issue 15:06:08 not sure if this is about using doubles, or efficiency ... 15:06:22 muntyan: why are you translating strings in the syntax highlighter? 15:06:26 Nothing confusing there. 15:06:40 slava: i am not, translators are 15:06:47 they shouldn't be 15:06:52 its a pretty stupid waste of time 15:06:56 slava: because that's a user-visible text, which should make sense to users 15:06:59 lol 15:07:00 muntyan: what are they doing?? 15:07:07 slava: it's not more waste of text than translating menus 15:07:20 muntyan: the whole text is nonsense. 15:07:22 ASau`: they change styles, I guess 15:07:27 ASau`: what text? 15:07:27 --- quit: ecraven ("bbl") 15:07:34 muntyan: what they're doing is even less meaninful. 15:07:43 Comments. 15:08:08 ? 15:08:10 "(" may be single-line comment only. 15:08:38 "DOC" may do anything else, except introducing multiline comment. 15:08:54 There may be no "NEEDS". 15:09:18 "MARKER" isn't preprocessor instruction, because there's _no_ preprocessor at all. 15:09:34 muntyan: having a syntax highlighting mode for forth is like having a combined mode for ruby, python, and perl 15:09:59 slava: I disagree. 15:10:27 Anyway, writing syntax highlighting for Forth requires very good knowledge of the language. 15:10:36 The dialect even. 15:10:37 well, feel free to improve it :) i was given that lang file by a user who is using it, so i added it 15:10:46 I'm not interested. 15:10:52 it's not my business to decide if it's good or not if i even don't know what forth is 15:11:28 why don't you just remove it? 15:11:58 remove what? 15:12:02 the forth mode 15:12:07 since its not very useful 15:12:13 every forth has its own custom syntax 15:12:23 It could be useful, if it was restricted to common words. 15:12:30 or if it was ANS 15:12:34 it's useless for me, it's useful for the guy who made the lang file 15:13:08 Like : ; if else then endif begin while repeat until again create does> s" ." .( 15:13:10 some others. 15:13:47 All those "deprive" are meaningless, unless you pay $$$ to mhx. 15:13:48 you know, it's a demand thing - nobody cares if something is "right" as long as everybody is satisfied. and if that everybody is one person who happens to use both forth and gedit, then why not? 15:13:51 For instance. 15:14:27 What and why are you looking here then? 15:14:43 Since noone is interested, including you, what is the matter? 15:15:28 why noone? 15:15:39 Who is? 15:15:47 "it's useful for the guy who made the lang file" 15:15:47 Right here, on this channel. 15:15:54 on this channel? i don't know 15:16:18 I'm pretty sure, that I won't use this file, since I use Emacs. 15:16:42 It is more useful too, since it provides a bit more than just syntax highlighting. 15:17:16 If you want to do anything useful regarding that file, 15:17:32 just remove it and send them to learn Emacs. 15:17:50 gforth.el is worth improvements. 15:18:31 heh 15:19:13 Spending time on improving and even _translating_ stupid 15:19:14 highlighting rules for the language one doesn't use is 15:19:14 unreasonable and stupid. 15:20:03 If one wants to spend his/her time on documentation, send 15:20:03 him/her to write man pages for anythig in heavy use. 15:20:06 Like gtar. 15:20:53 I believe you're from gnu world, since noone in BSD world could come with such stupid proposal. 15:22:31 proposal? it doesn't work this way as you say 15:22:48 it's different: bunch of people who like translating stuff translate stuff, that's all 15:23:01 it's distributed 15:23:18 that translator guy has no idea what forth is, nor will he ever know or care 15:23:20 or write docs 15:23:37 Send them to find any better material to translate. 15:23:44 ok, will send them 15:23:56 writing an order right away 15:24:19 come on, it's "open source" or "free software" - everybody masturbates in his favorite ways 15:24:39 Maybe you or they, I don't. 15:24:51 I use OSS for other things. 15:28:23 ' greet 12 cells dump 15:28:31 this is insance, taht i can dump out the assembly for code like that 15:29:24 In general you cannot. 15:31:29 why is this called vectored execution 15:32:23 For histerical raisins. 15:32:53 Earlier you saved "vector" in variable and used @execute to call it. 15:33:06 Then came "vector" words. 15:33:21 With "is" and company. 15:33:36 So you could omit "@execute", since it was implied. 15:33:56 "Is" replaced usage of "!". 15:34:35 Then the whole thing got unified, and now you have "defer" and "is". 15:34:52 damn; this went ovber my heard; i 15:34:58 ll take it at the car/cdr level 15:35:18 do most modern forths use the link field? 15:35:28 it seems like this implies O(1) searching for words 15:35:37 err, O(n) 15:35:41 when it could be amortized constnat time 15:35:43 No. 15:36:01 Usually one chooses trees or hash tables. 15:36:19 Though linked list is simpler. 15:36:28 --- part: muntyan left #forth 15:36:31 So this is common choice as well. 15:37:10 Resp. defer, if you understand source better than description, 15:37:19 take a look how it is done in gforth. 15:37:43 AFAIR, respective code is rather readable there. 15:38:07 yeah 15:38:17 i think forth vm is 'simple' enough that i can actually read the source code 15:38:36 This isn't at VM level. 15:38:48 This is more infrastructural. 15:38:49 forth directly emits x86 instructions" 15:39:40 s/"/?/ 15:41:09 It may. 15:41:34 And it can. 15:41:39 Some do, some do not. 15:44:36 cool; thanks for all your help; 15:44:38 --- part: hml left #forth 15:48:43 --- join: tgunr (n=davec@70-41-252-164.cust.wildblue.net) joined #forth 16:28:41 --- join: Geshi (n=Geshi@181.Red-83-52-54.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) joined #forth 16:29:00 hi 16:29:11 --- quit: Quartus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:29:31 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM001947482b20.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 16:34:20 hi all 16:45:03 --- quit: ASau` (Remote closed the connection) 16:45:36 --- join: ASau` (n=user@79.111.36.149) joined #forth 16:53:51 --- quit: ASau` (Remote closed the connection) 16:54:47 --- join: ASau` (n=user@79.111.36.149) joined #forth 17:02:32 --- quit: ASau` (Remote closed the connection) 17:03:35 --- join: ASau` (n=user@79.111.36.149) joined #forth 17:04:55 --- quit: qFox ("Time for cookies!") 18:14:54 --- quit: Geshi (Remote closed the connection) 19:46:18 --- quit: kspaans ("leaving") 19:53:33 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@dsl-69-50-58-172.fairpoint.net) joined #forth 19:53:33 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 20:05:21 --- quit: ASau` (Remote closed the connection) 20:05:43 --- join: kspaans (n=kspaans@nat/uwaterloo/x-20f1d3bf9e2da2de) joined #forth 20:06:28 --- join: ASau` (n=user@79.111.36.149) joined #forth 20:25:58 --- quit: ASau` (Remote closed the connection) 20:27:35 --- join: ASau` (n=user@79.111.36.149) joined #forth 20:42:31 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 20:43:50 --- quit: JasonWoof ("leaving") 20:43:57 --- join: aum (n=aum@60-234-243-247.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth 21:00:13 --- quit: nighty__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:45:25 --- quit: tathi (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:08:22 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-5c8e64ecc28fec01) joined #forth 22:35:20 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 22:35:54 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-0b2d4b37ccd18274) joined #forth 22:45:55 --- join: kar8nga (n=ctc@m-13.vc-graz.ac.at) joined #forth 23:24:17 --- quit: kar8nga ("Leaving.") 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/08.08.02