00:00:00 --- log: started forth/08.07.20 01:21:51 --- join: hml (n=x@unaffiliated/hml) joined #forth 01:22:24 anyone know of an implementation of forth written in a high level language? 01:22:46 i want to really understand the langauge 01:23:56 there are a few in C 01:29:58 great; let's optimize for readibility 01:38:32 hml: one great way to understand it is to play with it while reading along to Leo Brodie's 'Starting Forth' 01:38:45 aum is writing a forth inc 01:38:47 in c* 01:39:09 hml: are you fluent in C? 01:40:16 hml: it is still better to understand it in low level language. 01:40:48 it all depends on one's learning style 01:41:03 Implementing Forth in HLL requires more thorough knowledge of HLL. 01:41:42 Variant types are not that easy usually. 01:42:24 ASau`: not necessarily - for instance, in C, you can have a cell as a union of the basic types, and cast to/from as needed 01:43:20 In my opinion it adds much complexity. 01:43:46 Of course we can argue ad infinitum on that. 01:44:56 my bigger problem is how to get the early binding to run faster on my forth 01:45:53 What is early binding applied to Forth? 01:46:03 sorry, i meant late binding 01:46:13 ASau`: I've written an OO for my forth 01:46:57 when using early binding, it runs with comparable speed to no OO at all 01:47:23 aum: I don't care about OO or other similar abstract tools. 01:47:24 but the late binding is pretty slow, because attribute access is done via a hash table 01:47:33 What have you written in your OO? 01:47:59 ASau`: I've only just written the OO, haven't done any real apps with it yet 01:48:23 BTW, any URL to check? 01:48:50 hml: i'm very fluent in C 01:49:00 aum: i'm very fluent in C 01:49:09 ASau`: interim draft documentation is up at http://www.freenet.org.nz/misc/froto.html 01:49:10 aum: thanks, I'll look at Starting Forth 01:49:37 hml: http://home.iae.nl/users/mhx/sf.html 01:49:47 that's an online copy of Starting Forth 01:50:37 hml: for learning forth interactively, I suggest installing gforth and playing with it while reading Starting Forth - try stuff out as you read - fastest learning comes through experimentation 01:51:06 don't get too hung up on the internals till you have a comfortable feel from a user point of view 01:51:06 aum: is your hash table faster than balanced tree? 01:51:37 ASau`: that's what I'm asking myself - I'm tempted to move to balanced tree and cut the search time to O(log n) 01:52:22 aum: I started implementing Andersson trees, but stopped due to the lack of time. 01:52:52 I'd rather just grab a library with a permissive license and copy it into the project 01:52:54 No deletion currently. 01:53:13 I do that in Forth, so there hardly exists such. 01:53:43 currently I'm using libSCL for hashtables and lists - http://sourceforge.net/projects/libscl/ 01:53:55 If you're looking for ready solution, there're red-black trees somewhere inside NetBSD kernel. 01:54:56 Or they are outside already, I don't remember. 01:55:31 in practical terms, each object is unlikely to have more than about 20 attributes - 100 attributes in some extreme cases 01:59:10 biggest class in factor has 31 slots 01:59:21 median is 6 slots, mean is 3 01:59:28 that's if we count superclass slots 01:59:47 without superclass slots, maximum is 14, median is 2 and mean is 1 02:01:20 so half of all classes have 0, 1 or 2 slots 02:01:55 Is it class-based? 02:02:01 yes 02:02:05 hence classes 02:02:27 You could refer to prototypes as "classes". 02:02:59 I'd expect more slots in prototype-based system. 02:03:54 And less abstract objects (common prototypes). 02:22:03 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-492559414c890a32) joined #forth 03:09:20 --- quit: hml ("Lost terminal") 03:47:10 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 04:16:04 --- join: ASau` (n=user@79.111.12.190) joined #forth 04:43:33 --- quit: aum ("Leaving") 07:49:08 --- quit: mark4 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:22:08 --- quit: qFox ("Time for cookies!") 08:29:08 --- join: qFox (i=C00K13S@234pc222.sshunet.nl) joined #forth 09:01:32 --- quit: crc () 09:04:33 --- join: crc (n=charlesc@c-68-83-96-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:05:07 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 09:23:15 --- join: craigoz (n=craigo@202.63.56.72) joined #forth 09:35:28 --- quit: qFox ("Time for cookies!") 09:44:06 --- join: kspaans (i=kspaans@sodium-citrate.csclub.uwaterloo.ca) joined #forth 09:50:53 --- join: qFox (i=C00K13S@234pc222.sshunet.nl) joined #forth 10:00:18 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 10:00:22 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 10:13:23 --- join: Maki_ (n=Maki@adsl-224-84.eunet.yu) joined #forth 11:08:09 --- join: forther (n=forther@c-24-5-187-203.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 11:10:34 --- quit: forther (Client Quit) 11:15:39 --- join: ecraven (n=nex@plc31-103.linzag.net) joined #forth 11:18:57 --- quit: Maki_ ("Leaving") 11:47:25 --- join: Maki_ (n=Maki@adsl-224-84.eunet.yu) joined #forth 12:03:19 --- quit: mathrick ("HULK ANGRY! 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