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06:41:09 <JasonWoof> mornin' all
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07:50:24 <Quartus> Hi Jason.
07:52:56 <JasonWoof> hackin' away at my forthish thing :)
07:53:04 <Quartus> :
07:53:08 <Quartus> :)
07:53:29 <JasonWoof> yesterday all I did was make it print an error message when you search for something that isn't there
07:53:40 <JasonWoof> today, I've started in on the find-next feature
07:54:25 <JasonWoof> (my existant search feature, only looks for the definitions of words, but now I'm searching through the words _in_ definitions)
07:54:41 <JasonWoof> hence it's impossible to search for things without definitions
07:54:44 <JasonWoof> such as the number 4
07:55:08 <JasonWoof> Quartus: how are you today?
08:03:55 <Maki> Hi :)
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08:26:00 <JasonWoof> hi
08:41:36 <Maki> By "search feature" you mean FIND ?
08:49:33 <JasonWoof> it finds another of the word under the cursor
08:49:53 <JasonWoof> it's mostly working within the current definition
08:49:59 <JasonWoof> haven't implemented searching through other definitions yet
08:50:22 <JasonWoof> working except it looks like I'm leaving garbage on the flag stack
08:52:05 <JasonWoof> fixed! right, I changed my mind about the calling conventions on those words too many times
08:53:49 <JasonWoof> I'll have to clean up the code somehow
08:53:55 <JasonWoof> two of the definitions don't fit on a line
08:54:08 <Maki> Hmm that's an editor you are coding...
08:54:23 <JasonWoof> yep
08:54:59 <Maki> I'm using serial terminal for connection with my forth system.
08:55:09 <Maki> When I paste some code that has error interpreter display error info and current definition is not revealed.
08:55:20 <Maki> But, terminal keep sending and some of the words get executed and some compiled.
08:55:35 <JasonWoof> heh
08:55:46 <Maki> Those executed gives me headacke
08:55:48 <JasonWoof> what's your forth running on?
08:56:02 <Maki> forth processor
08:56:52 <Maki> It happens that those words executed from partial def can do some serious damage
08:57:17 <Maki> I'm planning to stop interpreter on error and wait for user input
08:58:12 <Maki> By the time user press ESC for example terminal will send all sharacters to empty space
08:58:33 <Maki> And nothing gets executed
08:58:47 <Maki> What do You think?
09:01:41 <Maki> I just need to empty fifo buffer
09:02:41 <Maki> after ESC pressed
09:34:28 <JasonWoof> sure
09:34:48 <JasonWoof> I think the standard thing to do is ignore the rest of the line
09:34:56 <JasonWoof> but pasting in pages is probably quite useful
09:35:10 <JasonWoof> if possible, probably the best thing to do is:
09:35:45 <JasonWoof> when there's an error, keep reading in as much text as is available until there's a pause of a 500ms or more
09:36:26 <JasonWoof> if you can't do that, then a "error, press ESC to continue" should work fine
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10:34:44 <Maki> JasonWoof: I don't like to use timer in kernel. So waiting for input to cease is not an option. Recovering with esc is a way to go. Thanks.
10:35:35 <JasonWoof> this is just a hack for testing remotely right?
10:35:36 <JasonWoof> not something you're going to leave in there...
10:35:47 <Maki> Why not?
10:36:42 <JasonWoof> because you're not supposed to paste multiple lines in
10:37:02 <JasonWoof> at some point you should set it up so the interpreter has access to your sources
10:37:08 <JasonWoof> use include" or something
10:37:59 <Maki> sources will not be present on target device
10:38:09 <Maki> Weel maybe in future
10:38:15 <Maki> *Well
10:39:04 <JasonWoof> so this is just a trick for debugging right?
10:39:43 <JasonWoof> I really don't understand why you'd have a compiler on something that doesn't have source code
10:40:03 <JasonWoof> except maybe as a temporary trick to aid with debugging
10:40:13 <JasonWoof> weird things you do to aid debugging should be removed later
10:40:30 <JasonWoof> that's my general line of thought, hope it makes sense
10:40:58 <Maki> Compiler is resident on processor and I'm comunicating with it over the terminal
10:41:53 <Maki> After I test my program I flash it to permanent storage
10:42:21 <Maki> And after power up image is restored
10:42:30 <Maki> So no sources needed
10:42:43 <Maki> At least not on target
10:43:03 <JasonWoof> why don't you do your development with an emulator?
10:43:34 <Maki> Because I usualy have some other peripherals connected to processor
10:43:52 <JasonWoof> I see
10:44:17 <JasonWoof> why don't you generate the roms for the chip on your computer and send that over, instead of sending sources over?
10:45:11 <Maki> I doo exactly that for forth kernel. I've build emulator too. To be able to test forth kernel.
10:45:57 <Maki> But application usualy involves LCD display, storage, external cards
10:46:48 <Maki> So to be able to generate image on host I need elaborate emulator.
10:47:19 <Maki> With interactive forth on target I can test and quickly change application
10:48:00 <JasonWoof> I agree with everything except needing an elaborate emulator to create the image
10:48:08 <JasonWoof> you don't need an emulator at all to create the image, just a compiler
10:48:54 <Maki> Emulator to simulate peripherals. I've written cross-compiler and it works
10:49:41 <JasonWoof> so pass your code to the cross-compiler, instead of pasting it
10:49:59 <JasonWoof> use the interpreter on your device interactively, like it's meant to be used
10:51:23 <Maki> My cross compiler dosn't support all forth constructs :(
10:51:39 <Maki> So I cross compile kernel only
10:52:00 <Maki> and rest is compiled by forth compiler on targeet
10:52:25 <Maki> I don't send largea amount of code over terminal
10:53:08 <Maki> Only the first time to extend forth kernel. After that I use MARKER
10:53:21 <JasonWoof> cool
10:53:37 <Maki> But it happens that I make error in coding and shit happens
10:54:20 <JasonWoof> so if you discover that you've made a mistake and extended the kernel to improve it?
10:54:24 <Maki> after pasting to terminal
10:54:34 <JasonWoof> perhaps a few extends ago...
10:54:50 <JasonWoof> then you have to load an old kernel, and paste in your successive changes right?
10:55:42 <JasonWoof> that would make me nervous. I'd probably go for finishing the cross-compiler
10:55:44 <Maki> Kernel is almost finished. I'm talking about application
10:56:16 <JasonWoof> I know. you can cross-compile applications too
10:56:44 <Maki> Yes
10:58:07 <JasonWoof> what chip do you have?
10:58:52 <Maki> Internal design. Not released to public. Dual stack traditional model 128kB addresable space.
10:59:08 <JasonWoof> cool
10:59:16 <Maki> I have a photo of the board
10:59:36 <Maki> If You like to see it I can upload somewhere
10:59:52 <Maki> I designed it from ground up
11:03:09 <JasonWoof> I'm curious to see, but I don't know much about circutry, so I'll just go "ooh, neat"
11:03:43 <Maki> Why would be a limitation to paste multiple lines to terminal?
11:04:04 <JasonWoof> huh?
11:05:05 <Maki> I mean Why do you think that it is a bad thing to paste entire file to terminal?
11:05:20 <JasonWoof> because forth isn't designed to handle it
11:05:43 <JasonWoof> you're using something that's meant to be interactive
11:06:07 <Maki> hmm
11:06:16 <JasonWoof> the forth setups that allow you to use source code from files and/or blocks are set up for this
11:06:26 <JasonWoof> they stop reading the files/blocks when an error occurs
11:06:46 <JasonWoof> the problem with the terminal, is that you're pasting a file as one unit, but the bounds of that unit are lost in the terminal interface
11:07:02 <JasonWoof> if the file you paste came through to the forth chip as one unit of code, it'd be fine, but it doesn't
11:07:16 <JasonWoof> the terminal doesn't tell your forth system where the paste starts and stops
11:08:05 <JasonWoof> in a terminal, the only way to tell the difference between typing and pasting is by checking the timing
11:08:05 <Maki> I see
11:08:16 <JasonWoof> it's a crappy interface for a lot of things
11:08:50 <JasonWoof> writing apps for the terminal is tempting to me, because it's so easy, but it's also quite limiting
11:08:59 <JasonWoof> for my latest project, I wrote my own terminal emulator
11:09:22 <JasonWoof> so I can easily EMIT text/etc and I'm not stuck with the stupid limitations
11:09:32 <JasonWoof> eg I get key-up events
11:09:50 <JasonWoof> I can find out when the alt key is pressed, etc
11:10:14 <Maki> cool
11:10:51 <JasonWoof> and I can easily add mouse and/or graphics support, without a rewrite
11:11:51 <JasonWoof> when I finally get a decent laptop with 3D accelleration, I'll probably have some fun with graphics
11:12:35 <JasonWoof> I don't see why it'd be difficult to output text and 3D shapes on the same window
11:13:18 <JasonWoof> the only trouble with my terminal emulator is that you can't copy text with the mouse
11:13:42 <Maki> why
11:31:16 <JasonWoof> cuz I didn't program it to do that
11:31:32 <JasonWoof> when someone clicks and drags, I'm not going to hilight text, I'm going to tell my forth app about what the mouse is doing
11:53:05 <JasonWoof> also I'm lazy
11:53:16 <JasonWoof> I don't currently track what characters are on the screen
11:53:23 <JasonWoof> just where to blit the next one
11:53:46 <TreyB> heh
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14:23:01 <I440r> quartus u there?
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15:02:45 <Quartus`> hi.
15:09:43 <aguai> hi...
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