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13:22:03 <luinfana> hello
13:22:20 <luinfana> I've got a question if anyone can help
13:23:27 <luinfana> anyone around...?
13:28:44 * crc is
13:29:29 * MalfermitaKodo will listen
13:29:35 <MalfermitaKodo> but is a n00b
13:31:29 <skymir> jo me too
13:32:28 <luinfana> ok thanks guys
13:32:39 <luinfana> I'm trying to write a perfect number generator that checks all numbers to see whether they're perfect (a perfect number is one that is equal to the sum of its divisors)
13:33:07 <luinfana> so one of the first things that needs to be done is to increment the top number on the stack in each loop...and for some reason I can't do that
13:33:20 <luinfana> I know, really, really simple I'm sure
13:34:04 <luinfana> the code I have so far (to find the divisors) looks like this:
13:34:08 <luinfana> : FIND.DIVISORS
13:34:12 <luinfana> 	1 +
13:34:15 <luinfana> 	DUP 1 DO
13:34:20 <luinfana> 	DUP I MOD 0= IF
13:34:20 <luinfana> 		I SWAP
13:34:20 <luinfana> 	THEN
13:34:20 <luinfana> LOOP
13:34:20 <luinfana> DROP
13:34:21 <luinfana> ;
13:34:27 <luinfana> oh, without the 1 +, sorry
13:36:41 <luinfana> so what's the simplest way to do this, so that every time FIND.DIVISORS is called, it checks the next number?
13:40:15 <luinfana> I found some code that counts up to a given number...looks like this
13:40:17 <luinfana> : INTEGERS  ( +n -- )
13:40:18 <luinfana>    1 BEGIN  DUP . 1+ 2DUP < UNTIL  2DROP ;
13:40:18 <luinfana> 10 INTEGERS
13:40:31 <luinfana> but the problem with that is it doesn't put the numbers on the stack, it just displays them
13:43:10 <crc> : integers 1+ 1 do i dup . loop ;
13:43:34 <luinfana> ok, let me see
13:45:12 <luinfana> OK, yeah that looks good
13:45:18 <luinfana> let me try it with the divisors
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14:07:30 <forther> hi
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14:14:09 <crc> hi forther
14:17:39 <Quartus> hi all
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14:28:44 <crc> for the record, a working (though not well-factored) solution to luinfana's problem is at http://retroforth.com/paste/?id=519
14:29:24 <luinfana> :) thanks crc
14:29:29 <luinfana> bye
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14:44:34 <Deformative> Oh hai.
14:44:52 <Quartus> please
14:44:59 <Quartus> speak English
14:45:32 <Deformative> Yes sir.
14:47:04 <MalfermitaKodo> do the lolcats speak English as well?
14:47:12 <Quartus> I hope to never find out.
14:47:13 <MalfermitaKodo> Sorrty could not resist
14:49:31 <Deformative> Please do not compare me to the lolcats.
14:50:21 <Deformative> I attempt grammar and only use a few select dumb phrases. 
14:50:37 <Quartus> To annoy? Or do you have another reason?
14:50:55 <Deformative> My spelling has gotten better.
14:51:32 <Deformative> I just choose a few phrases to attempt to improve the mood without being too annoying. 
14:51:45 <Quartus> Annoyance doesn't improve the mood.
14:52:28 <Deformative> Some people may not find it annoying.
14:52:39 <Quartus> Your theory.
14:52:41 <Deformative> But I apologize. 
14:54:11 <Deformative> Is your constant negativeness to annoy, or do you really get that upset because of irc? 
14:54:31 <Quartus> What makes you think I'm "that upset"?
14:55:14 <Deformative> Perhaps I should have chose a different word. 
14:55:26 <Quartus> Try not to make it anime pig-latin, if possible.
14:55:36 <Deformative> s/that upset/that negative
14:56:01 <MalfermitaKodo> Quartus: I always smile about lolcat grammar if not used consistantly
14:56:01 <Deformative> Or angry if you prefer, or some other synonym. 
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14:58:48 <Deformative> I didn't expect an answer.
14:58:58 <Deformative> Back to semi-ontopic.
14:59:00 <Deformative> Heh.
14:59:21 <Quartus> I should hope not.  Questions in the form of "are you naturally stupid, or did the O.B. slip with the forceps?" deserve no answer.
15:00:36 <Deformative> Ah, so I should have been a complete mimic and used the words "or some other reason" afterwards. 
15:01:20 <Deformative> http://www.intellasys.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16&Itemid=37  I find the last three posts humorous. 
15:01:23 <Deformative> :D
15:01:44 <Quartus> That makes no sense.  What would you be mimicking? And how would that make the question any more deserving of an answer?
15:02:18 <Deformative> [17:49] <Quartus> To annoy? Or do you have another reason?
15:02:43 <Deformative> And it would give you an option if the reason was not listed.
15:03:11 <Quartus> Which is an open question.  I assume you have some reason for being japantastically challenged.
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15:03:35 <Deformative> I wonder who it was that called it vaporware. :D
15:03:50 <Quartus> The link you gave doesn't bring up any posts.
15:04:07 <Deformative> Oops, I keep forgetting my clipboard is broken.
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15:04:08 <tathi> oh good lord, are you *still* at it?
15:04:09 <Deformative> Second.
15:04:43 <gnomon> When did baiting Quartus become a fun pastime, anyhow? This doesn't look like a productive conversation.
15:04:53 <Deformative> tathi: I think it is getting better. :)
15:05:14 <Deformative> http://www.intellasys.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=45&start=10
15:05:16 <Quartus> gnomon, it isn't.  How are things?  I owe you some code, as I recall.
15:05:24 <Deformative> Quartus That is the correct url.
15:06:28 <gnomon> Quartus, things are good! Things have finally calmed down at work to a dull roar - two weeks ago I worked a week of 16-18 hour shifts, and last week I had an 0430h start time, but it looks like this week might be calm enough for me to have a life again and even write some docs.
15:06:32 <gnomon> Good times!
15:06:39 <Quartus> Sweet.
15:06:46 <gnomon> Quartus, who owes whom what, though? Wasn't I going to run some tests for you?
15:07:01 <gnomon> Also, how are things with you? How goes the book?
15:07:17 <Quartus> Yes, but the first step is mine.  The book is quietly waiting for my cycles to become free, too.
15:08:06 <gnomon> Ah, that desperate shortage of round tuits...
15:08:07 <gnomon> :)
15:08:14 <Quartus> :)
15:08:27 <Deformative> Of what topic is the book?
15:08:32 <Quartus> Forth.
15:08:55 <Deformative> Neat.
15:09:00 <gnomon> Indeed.
15:09:31 <Deformative> I wonder how many years it has been since the last forth book.
15:09:48 <gnomon> The Thinking Forth remake came out just a couple of years ago.
15:10:44 <Quartus> Forth Application Techniques was revised quite recently.  And Pelc's book is from last year.
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15:11:30 <Deformative> Do you have a publisher? 
15:11:36 <Quartus> No.
15:12:01 <Deformative> Going to release it to the web then, or will you find one when you need it?
15:12:02 <gnomon> These days that hardly matters.
15:12:09 <Quartus> Remains to be seen.
15:13:16 <gnomon> Quartus, if an N800 suddenly showed up in a box on your doorstep, what are the chances that Quartus Forth would end up running on it..?
15:13:34 <Quartus> Quite high, considering it runs already, according to you :) just a couple of tweaks
15:13:45 <Deformative> Does Quartus forth run on linux?
15:14:04 <gnomon> It runs under the Garnet VM, which runs under Linux on the N800.
15:14:13 * Deformative has an n770.
15:14:16 <Deformative> Oh.
15:14:44 <gnomon> Quartus, how about a more native version? Would there be any interest in that on your part?
15:15:25 <gnomon> (this is only slightly more than idle talk, by the way, but I am vaguely considering porting JonesForth to the ARM, if I can ever convince gas to run on the N800)
15:15:37 <Deformative> gnomon: Do you mean with the maemo api and all that?
15:15:40 <Quartus> gnomon, it would depend a lot on the nature of the OS on that gadget -- what hoops have to be jumped through.
15:15:52 <gnomon> That's fair.
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15:16:23 <gnomon> Deformative, I care a lot less about Maemo bindings than I do about code that runs at the terminal, though I acknowledge that I'm in the minority there.
15:16:49 <forther> Deformative, your last link opens on forthdrive page somehow ... I though I meant some forum topic ...
15:16:57 <Deformative> Hm, I am too slow with the silly touch screen to use the terminal.
15:17:13 <Deformative> forther: The second one?
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15:17:42 <Deformative> forther: It was because I forgot that synergy clipboard was broken.
15:17:43 <forther> <Deformative> http://www.intellasys.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16&Itemid=37  I find the last three posts humorous.
15:17:58 <gnomon> Deformative, I am too. That's why I've got an Apple Bluetooth keyboard stored in my backpack, and why I keep a ThinkOutside Stowaway folded in my jacket pocket.
15:18:00 <Deformative> [18:03] <Deformative> http://www.intellasys.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=45&start=10
15:18:15 <Deformative> gnomon: How much did it cost you?
15:18:23 <gnomon> Deformative, how much did what cost me?
15:18:31 <Deformative> The keyboard.
15:18:49 <forther> ok
15:19:12 <gnomon> The Apple keyboard costs about $80, but it cost me nothing because I got it for Christmas. The StowAway cost me rather more than I'd like to admit, but you can get a Dell-branded one from Expansys for just under $50.
15:20:20 <Deformative> That is more than I payed for my imacs, so it looks like I am going to need to continue being keyboardless.
15:20:26 <Deformative> I did do the usb hub hack.
15:20:33 <Deformative> But that requires a power outlet.
15:20:49 <Deformative> So it is useless.
15:21:12 <gnomon> The N800 USB port puts out enough power to keep most USB keyboards happy.
15:21:32 <gnomon> I guess that's not particularly relevant to you, though.
15:22:04 <Deformative> gnomon:  The usb port does not activate on the n770 without upstream power.
15:22:21 <gnomon> On the other hand, you may be able to hack something together like Thoughtfix's project box. Three AA batteries put 4.5 volts and should be enough to keep something with power draw as low as a keyboard happy for some time.
15:22:30 <gnomon> Deformative, I am aware of that.
15:22:47 <Deformative> Ah,
15:23:06 <Deformative> Too much work.
15:23:28 <Deformative> I am enjoying just using it as my pdf/html reader. 
15:23:37 <gnomon> Cheap, fast, convenient: pick two!
15:23:38 <Deformative> And checking email if there is a wifi around.
15:24:14 <Deformative> Heh.
15:24:56 <Deformative> Don't the nokia tablets support gforth?
15:25:41 <gnomon> Good question, sir. I haven't found an affirmative yet, and I haven't set up the scratchbox environment necessarily to cross-compile apps for it.
15:26:10 <Deformative> I had a scratchbox,  but I have changed os since then.
15:26:47 <Deformative> Perhaps I will setup another. If I get around to it, I will give you a shell if you want one.
15:27:14 <gnomon> I appreciate the offer!
15:27:35 <gnomon> Ficl may prove easier to port than GForth.
15:27:59 <gnomon> What I'd really, really like, though, is a Forth that includes Quartus's ARM assembler...
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15:28:01 <Deformative> I hope scratchbox supports powerpc.
15:28:14 <forther> so far gforth compiled on everything I tried
15:28:18 <Quartus> Why would Gforth present difficulties?  I had a version of it running on a Zaurus under Linux years back.
15:29:05 <gnomon> I don't think that it would, actually.
15:29:25 <Quartus> ficl's ok, but it's not standard, and isn't as comprehensive.
15:29:27 <gnomon> I *do* think that Ficl is specifically aimed at the tiny target, easy-to-embed niche, however.
15:29:34 <gnomon> It's also slow and weird.
15:29:41 <Quartus> it's targeted at being embedded in C apps, really.
15:30:50 <forther> like atlast 
15:31:03 <Quartus> Though atlast is a much older thing.
15:31:21 <forther> it was updated recently
15:31:53 <forther> I think it's smallest from portable ones ...
15:32:12 <forther> I mean compilable of of the box
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15:33:37 <gnomon> Right. Dinner time for me. I'll be back on later.
15:33:58 <Deformative> Have fun.
15:33:58 <gnomon> Quartus, do you think you might have an hour or two some evening to sit down and hack around with Garnet?
15:34:12 <gnomon> Danke schoen, Deformative.
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15:34:55 <gnomon> I ask because there's a good chance I may have a few free evenings this week.
15:36:13 <gnomon> Anywhoop, I'll check back in after I've fooded. Bon appetit et bonsoir a tous.
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15:46:46 <Quartus> hi gnomon.  Sorry, was away for a sec.  Yes, that'd be fun.
15:47:37 <Deformative> Quartus: Did you view that link the second time I posted it/
15:47:38 <Deformative> ?
15:47:49 <Quartus> yes, from feb.
15:49:07 <Deformative> I found "People in #forth all tell me that your chip is vaporware"  and "Jeff Fox went in there on subsequent days to reassure them that SEAForth is not vaporware."  rather humorous. 
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15:51:24 <Deformative> Was Jeff Fox's appearance in here similar to the usenet appearance that I was informed of?
15:51:42 <Quartus> I don't recall it.
15:52:41 <Deformative> Hm, I assumed it was you that called the chip vaporware. \
15:52:55 <Quartus> Possibly; I'm not the only one.
15:53:59 <Deformative> Oh.
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20:58:09 <slava> Quartus: i find that all the code i've been writing recently doesn't use over, tuck, or other weird stuff like that
20:58:16 <slava> sorry i meant rot, -rot and tuck
20:58:18 <slava> i still use over occasionally
20:58:26 <slava> but in general i need to shuffle less and less (and i'm not using locals much either)
20:59:13 <Quartus> I didn't know you were writing much Forth of late.  I agree, over is useful; even the occasional rot and tuck.  But pick and roll are the tools of the devil.
21:00:01 <slava> i use factor which has the same shuffle words as forth
21:00:08 <Quartus> Ah.
21:01:15 <slava> in factor, pick is like forth's 3 pick. it reaches one lower than over
21:01:22 <slava> i've hardly been using it as of late
21:01:39 <slava> in fact i can't remember the last time i wrote one
21:01:56 <Quartus> There's a point at which one intuitively orders things on the stack such that they're available in the order in which they're needed.
21:02:07 <slava> yup
21:02:13 <slava> any quartusforth news as of late?
21:02:48 <Quartus> Not a great deal.  Gnomon has a Nokia device that runs a Palm OS5 (Garnet) VM, and I'm looking forward to working with him on tweaking the kernel for it.
21:03:01 <slava> is that similar to the 68k palm OS?
21:03:16 <Quartus> The Garnet VM  contains a 68K emulator.
21:03:23 <slava> so its a wholly new OS?
21:03:42 <Quartus> In a manner of speaking.  Garnet is ARM code.
21:04:09 <slava> will you port quartus to it?
21:04:11 <slava> as a native app?
21:04:15 <slava> or too much work? not worth it?
21:04:36 <Quartus> Presently it runs under the VM -- not native.  I am looking at the possibilities.
21:04:44 <slava> does it have a future?
21:04:48 <slava> garnet, that is
21:05:10 <Quartus> It seems to be alive and well at least :)
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