00:00:00 --- log: started forth/08.04.12
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08:11:57 <tane`weq> goodday
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08:40:52 <Quartus`> Hi
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11:06:58 <Malfermi1aKodo> hi
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11:10:27 <Deformative> Hi.
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13:12:43 <Deformative> Quartus`: Did you apply for a forthdrive?
13:20:23 <Deformative> Or anyone else who is reading.
13:20:50 * MalfermitaKodo is just a n00b who has no idea what you are talking about
13:24:20 <Deformative> Hmm, synergy clippboard is broken.
13:25:34 <Deformative> :(
13:25:36 <Deformative> Sec.
13:26:12 <Deformative> http://www.intellasys.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16&Itemid=37
13:32:55 <MalfermitaKodo> ah
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17:00:55 <Quartus> Hi.l
17:00:57 <Quartus> Hi, even
17:01:13 <slava> hey
17:04:34 <Deformative> Hi.
17:05:08 <Deformative> Have either of you applied for a forthdrive?
17:05:12 <slava> no
17:05:22 <Quartus> I'm waiting for the Easter Bunny to deliver mine.
17:05:54 <Deformative> Explain?
17:06:47 <Quartus> I figure vapourware is best delivered by imaginary rabbits.
17:08:19 <Deformative> Does that imply that you have emailed them or have not?  I cannot figure out your joke.
17:08:31 <Deformative> Because you could have applied but never got a reply.
17:08:40 <Deformative> And the joke would still be valid.
17:09:14 <tane> i dont get it
17:09:15 <tane> ;)
17:09:16 <Quartus> The joke is having to apply to buy -- made all the more amusing by the unavailability of the product.
17:10:01 <Deformative> Indeed, but it still seems like a very interesting piece of hardware and I would like one, if they are willing to sell it to me for a reasonable price. 
17:10:19 <Quartus> I recommend not holding your breath while waiting.
17:10:36 <tane> what is a forthdrive?
17:10:37 <tane> any url?
17:11:11 <Deformative> tane: First hit on google
17:11:46 <Deformative> Quartus: Yeah,  it's worth a shot though. 
17:11:47 <Deformative> :)
17:11:57 <Quartus> I don't believe it is.
17:12:07 <tane> mh ok
17:13:23 <Deformative> Well, then that improves my chances of getting one. :)
17:13:33 <Quartus> I don't believe it does.
17:13:40 <Deformative> Why are you so negative?
17:13:58 <Quartus> There's nothing positive to say about the situation.
17:14:20 <Deformative> Ohkay.
17:14:25 <tane> there's always something positive
17:14:30 <tane> at least you could get drunk?
17:16:46 <Deformative> Quartus:  Is there something negative other than the lack of availability? 
17:17:12 <Quartus> I direct you to the Usenet postings of Jeff Fox, so you can draw your own conclusions.
17:18:52 <Deformative> Do you have a specific url? I cannot seem to find one regarding the forthdrive.
17:18:55 <tane> mh, whats the time at your location?
17:19:09 <Quartus> I don't keep links on-hand to Fox's posts.  Let me see.
17:21:38 <Quartus> Ugh.  I can't do it, not before dinner.  Plow through for awhile.  Wear gloves and a breathing mask.
17:21:53 <Deformative> Alright, thankyou for your time.
17:21:58 <tathi> Hehe
17:23:32 <Quartus> Hey, tathi.  :)  Got any imaginary products that I can apply to purchase?
17:24:31 <slava> Quartus: i have a quantum supercomputer that runs newforth 
17:24:34 <tathi> I'm sure I do somewhere...but why don't you just imagine them yourself and save me the trouble?
17:24:36 <slava> Quartus: i'm taking pre-orders
17:24:40 <Quartus> It'll seal the deal if you can sizzle it for me with insane, paranoid claims.
17:24:50 <tane> i wonder how old are you - that you're to keen to answer
17:24:50 <tane> ;)
17:25:36 <Quartus> slava, that's amazing.  How many powers of 10 faster is it than anything ever?
17:26:12 <slava> Quartus: its no faster if you're one of them _C_ programmers.
17:26:42 <Quartus> Right, the "ANSI" ones.  So do you also make reference to the legion of haters and non-believers who will do anything to discredit you?
17:27:27 <Quartus> Because that would be awesome.
17:27:36 <Deformative> I am reasonably confused. 
17:27:51 <Deformative> Is chuck moore's work no longer respected? 
17:28:36 <slava> who said anything about chuck?
17:28:53 <Deformative> He is the one behind seaforth, isn't he?
17:29:05 <Deformative> I know he is the one who presented it on forthday, or from what I read.
17:29:14 <slava> jeff fox posts paranoid delusional rants and this is the only public face of the company
17:29:27 <slava> so what are we to think?
17:30:02 <Deformative> Oh, I was searching for something specfic to the forth drive.
17:30:15 <Deformative> Am I to assume that it is just a dislike of jeff fox?  (Still very confused)
17:30:32 <slava> yes
17:30:45 <Deformative> And Jeff Fox ranks where?
17:31:11 <slava> he posts incoherent rants to c.l.f detaiing all the ways in which are are too stupid to understand and appreciate seaforth
17:32:07 <Deformative> Was the first are supposed to be another word?
17:32:18 <slava> we are
17:32:30 <Quartus> Intellasys did eventually remove him from their published roster of employees, last I checked.  
17:32:38 <slava> oh really?
17:32:47 <tathi> was he on it at some point?
17:34:01 <Quartus> He was.
17:34:10 <aguai> : e 0 begin dup 18 = if dup . leave else dup . then 1 + again ; <- it seems I did something wrong to reach a bad address
17:34:13 <Quartus> As far as I know, he still works there.
17:34:38 <aguai> but I cound'nt see it....
17:34:51 <aguai> *the terminal*:64: Invalid memory address
17:35:08 <Quartus> aguai, that's a horrible control structure. And it's broken.    LEAVE doesn't apply to begin/again loops.
17:35:14 <tathi> LEAVE only works with DO..LOOP
17:35:46 <aguai> tathi: oh...:P thanks...
17:36:07 * aguai <-newbie silly
17:36:08 <tathi> hey, Quartus answered first! :-P
17:36:24 <Quartus> Look into begin/while/repeat
17:36:30 <aguai> sorry
17:36:39 <Deformative> So let me see if I understand now,  Jeff Fox is a past employee that insulted the community, plus the community does not believe that it will ever be made available?  
17:36:52 <Quartus> I don't know if he's a past employee or not.
17:37:25 <Quartus> Just that he was, and later was removed from the list of people they advertised on the website.
17:38:09 <Deformative> But the general scepticism of the forthdrive is caused by those two factors?
17:38:41 <Quartus> The endeavour goes back years, has various names, always seems to involve Fox, and never appears to produce any actual product.
17:39:44 <Deformative> Oh.
17:40:13 <Deformative> If they reply to my email, I will let you know.
17:40:29 <Quartus> The closest I ever came to actual hardware was on an inquiry to Patriot, who had bought the design of one of Moore's chips, and was claiming to have produced some.  They said they might deign to sell me an evaluation board, if they could find one; they'd look around and see what they had.  Last I heard.
17:40:37 <Quartus> That was... ten years ago, I think.
17:40:41 <slava> haha
17:42:08 <Quartus> So my skepticism is extremely well-founded.
17:42:11 <Deformative> Is intellasys good at making false replies to emails or do they ignore them all together? 
17:42:18 <Quartus> Let us know.
17:42:40 <Deformative> I asked to be considered, I should have asked to be notified.
17:42:58 <Quartus> You should have steered clear of the entire affair, if you ask me.
17:43:31 <Deformative> A valid point.
17:45:05 <Deformative> Well, I doubt it will waste any more than the two minutes it took me to send them the email, so I don't think it could hurt. 
17:45:17 <Deformative> Except the heartache of rejection. xD 
17:45:38 <Quartus> A rant about a thing by Fox serves me well as an indicator of its complete irrelevance.
17:48:53 <Deformative> Hm, I believe you are right, they don
17:49:00 <Deformative> 't seem to have any products up.
17:49:20 <Deformative> They should at least have a paypal or something to look a little legitimate. 
17:49:42 <Quartus> Well, if you care, dig; apparently some of the useful links are only posted as messages in the forum, according to a fellow who came by here a few weeks ago.
17:50:58 <Deformative> dig?
17:51:00 <Quartus> You know, you have to really prove that you really really care and really really really want to apply for a chance to buy their really really really really great stuff, so they hide the links.  Like Easter eggs.  Which brings me full circle.
17:51:27 <Deformative> :)
17:51:55 <Deformative> I have already checked their forum.
17:52:05 <Deformative> It didn't seem to have anything that special.
17:52:52 <Quartus> Imagine if the front page said "Now Shipping: Forthdrives!  [Click here to buy!]"   ... instead of this "We accidentally went into business without a plan!  Write to us, and if you sound like you can save our bacon, we'll ship you what we have!"
17:52:54 <Deformative> I did see that there are a few people who claim to have gotten them.
17:55:12 <Quartus> Well, maybe if you're a very good boy, and develop a good business plan for them, they'll let you buy one.
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17:57:05 <Deformative> Interesting.
17:57:41 <Deformative> Forum registration sends from the same email that they tell you to send a request to.
17:59:12 <Deformative> Quartus: Do you mind if I send them that as a business plan? :P
17:59:20 <Deformative> The whole "Now Shipping: Forthdrives!  [Click here to buy!]"  thing.
17:59:34 <Quartus> What requirements do you have that wouldn't be met by existing, proven, available, commodity hardware?
18:00:29 <Deformative> A good point.
18:01:27 <Deformative> I just thought the massively concurrent aspect was neat,  but forth isn't exactly a language optimized for concurrency from what I can tell, moving stacks around isn't as easy and moving parameters. 
18:01:42 <Quartus> What need do you have for concurrency?
18:01:49 <Deformative> Fun.
18:02:13 <Deformative> Then again, it might be easier for me to just buy a not sucky GPU.
18:02:27 <Quartus> Maybe.
18:02:28 <Deformative> GPUs are massively concurrent. 
18:03:25 <Quartus> The guy who was along here a few weeks ago, worked for Intellasys, said that they want people who will develop the product in a marketable way.  In other words, they came to the end of page 2 of their business plan, discovered there was no page 3, and are now looking for it.
18:03:55 <Quartus> 'Fun' will not suffice as a reason to ship you one of their limited supply of gear.
18:04:03 <Deformative> Why don't they make "forthgpu" ?
18:04:43 <slava> Deformative: you've made the claim several times but i still don't see what issue you have with concurrency and stacks
18:04:58 <tane> helly
18:05:01 <tane> hello
18:05:02 <tane> ;)
18:05:14 <Deformative> slava: I am too used to thinking of concurrency in terms of the functional paradigm.
18:05:24 <slava> it sounds like you don't know much about programming at all
18:05:25 <Deformative> I just don't see how you would distribute the work.
18:05:32 <slava> by spawning threads.
18:05:54 <Deformative> Plus message passing.
18:05:57 <Deformative> Yeah, that works.
18:06:06 <slava> you're not limited to message passing.
18:06:32 <Deformative> I was thinking too along the lines of Coroutines
18:06:58 <slava> you can use locks, futures, promises, etc.
18:06:58 <Deformative> Quartus A few seaforth plus a bit of onboard memory could make a neat framebuffer.
18:07:09 <slava> any concurrency abstraction can be used with forthh
18:07:20 <Quartus> Not just by saying so, Deformative. 
18:07:48 <Deformative> Noted.
18:08:14 <Deformative> (Best reply I could think of. Sorry if it doesn't make much sense.)
18:09:36 <Deformative> slava: Coroutines and iterators do not seem like they would be friendly, but yes, you are correct, I am just having a hard time.
18:09:47 <Deformative> I guess they would need to find a way to share the dictionary. 
18:10:02 <Deformative> Or not.
18:10:03 <slava> coroutines work fine.
18:11:13 <Deformative> I guess your right.
18:11:21 <Deformative> I just didn't think it through well enough. 
18:12:20 <slava> each coroutine has its own stacks.
18:13:40 <Deformative> And what would be the parameters in a function are just placed on the stack before the thread is started.
18:16:16 <Deformative> And the continuation is put on some other thread with the origonal stack that starts when the coroutines are finished.
18:16:36 <tane> hey
18:16:58 <Deformative> tane: ?
18:17:05 <tane> ;)
18:17:08 <tane> im so drunk
18:17:15 <tane> oh my god
18:17:31 <Quartus> tane, go away and sober up.
18:17:38 <tane> no
18:17:57 <tane> sobering is to-morrow
18:18:00 <Deformative> ...
18:18:12 <Quartus> Then come back tomorrow.
18:18:20 <Deformative> Why does irc appear to be a fun thing when people are drunk?
18:19:09 <tane> well
18:19:12 <tane> i dunno
18:19:15 <Deformative> I would expect them to do something else.
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18:22:17 <Fractal> Quartus : Are you the guy behind quartus forth for the palm pilot?
18:22:22 <Quartus> That's me.
18:22:36 <Fractal> nice.. was the awesomest bit  sofware on my IIIe :)
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18:22:41 <Quartus> Hey, thanks. :)
18:23:10 <Fractal> motorola 68k right?
18:23:53 <Quartus> Yes.  Runs on the newer ARM models under the 68K emulation, too.  And there's an ARM assembler.
18:23:54 <Fractal> oh ya "dragonball" iirc
18:24:04 <Fractal> Sweet
18:33:27 <Fractal> syke : short COTTvGOME.COTTO... is l0qz
18:33:32 <Fractal> errr sorry
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18:40:17 <Deformative> Hm, seaforth doesn't have floating point.
18:40:21 <Deformative> From what I can tell.
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