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(i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-059-217-040.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 08:37:15 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 08:37:19 --- join: Snoopy42 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-088-068-221-003.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 08:40:35 yay, I sped up herkforth 08:40:51 it has a tab-completion feature where it shows all matches that fit on a line while you're typing 08:41:00 running on my laptop under qemu this was slow 08:41:32 slow because it was just clipping the out put at the edge of the screen and still going through printing all matches 08:41:52 --- quit: Snoopy_1611 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 08:42:02 so if I start typing a word with a popular starting char it would pause for a sec 08:42:19 now I had it check for clipping in the search/display loop, and it's back to lightning fast 08:55:27 --- join: Snoopy_1611 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-059-218-163.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 09:03:43 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 09:03:46 --- 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--- join: Snoopy42 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-059-209-080.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 09:41:26 --- quit: Snoopy_1611 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 09:41:53 --- join: Snoopy_1611 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-088-068-199-245.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 09:44:05 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 09:44:21 --- nick: Snoopy_1611 -> Snoopy42 10:01:10 SUCCESS 10:01:27 heh 10:01:30 my new keybinding system is functioning! 10:01:38 well, the part of it that I wrote anyway :) 10:01:46 who wrote th eother part? 10:01:53 nobody 10:01:59 oh :) 10:01:59 it's not finished :) 10:02:08 heh 10:02:23 it garauntees my requirements, and binds intelligently 10:02:30 guarantees 10:02:40 I'll learn where to put that stupid U one of these days 10:03:28 there's a temporary input mode which goes away when you release all the keys 10:05:07 within a given input mode you can map keys to "action constants" 10:05:27 (such as "go up", "go down", "follow link", "quit" etc) 10:06:36 then those are mapped to actual actions 10:06:55 i'm working on file system events 10:06:58 some are mapped directly (like quit, and the "execute word" dialog thing) 10:07:10 and some are mapped to actions depending on the "editor mode" 10:07:19 "editor mode" is basically what type of object is being edited 10:08:08 If I'm editing definitions and I hit a key sequence mapped to "go right" it should pop the cursor over one word to the right 10:08:24 If I'm editing text, and I git "go right" it should move one _character_ over 10:08:45 cool 10:09:05 currently only one "editor mode" is implemented 10:09:16 it crashes nicely if I put it in edit-text mode 10:09:50 slava: fs events? like being notified when a file is created in a certain directory? 10:10:00 yeah 10:10:05 cool 10:10:44 I'm happy with my binding system now because it can guarantee the stuff that's important to me (that the keybindings return to normal when all keys are released) and that I can map key sequences to meanings without changing every place where "go up" is implemented 10:11:07 you can use this to do simple stuff like a tail -f that updates instantly, or even a desktop search engine 10:11:16 on all systems except bsd you can monitor entire hierarchies 10:11:20 on bsd you can only monitor individual files 10:11:29 fancy! 10:11:58 the API is two words 10:12:15 you create a monitor, then wait for an event 10:12:25 which gives you two things on the stack, a pathname and a list of attributes which changed 10:12:34 when no keys are down, very few keys do anything special (just the modifier key and the arrow keys, and possibly escape) 10:12:55 modifier key puts it in "mod mode" which makes several letter keys do special things 10:13:06 will this run on my intel mac? 10:13:06 thus mod-c can trigger "go up" 10:13:22 slava: it will 10:13:31 slava: It runs in a VM written in C using just libsdl 10:13:52 it doesn't have an editor yet though 10:14:01 I'm crosscompiling from herkforth which is much harder to run 10:14:10 herkforth is ppc-linux only 10:14:11 awesome 10:14:40 though you can run it on x86 linux with qemu-ppc and a couple little programs to set the terminal mode to non-blocking 10:14:57 I'm pretty excited about it 10:15:09 I took your advice and sat down to do "at least a little bit" of coding today 10:15:13 did 1.5 hours :) 10:15:17 so addictive :) 10:15:27 first hit is free 10:15:35 now I really gotta kick but and do my contract work 10:16:15 I'm so happy I got it working 10:16:25 I wrote way too much code that I hadn't tested until today 10:16:32 mostly just big tables, but still 10:16:44 And the final bug was... 10:17:08 my event loop was supposed to ignore all non-keyboard event, but instead ignored just keyboard events 10:17:13 heh 10:17:31 on windows and linux fs events are reported through filesystem descriptors 10:17:36 on mac, it works with the event loop 10:17:53 so if you want a command line app to receive fs events you need to run an event loop anyway 10:17:56 which is a bit weird 10:18:28 hmm 10:23:51 slava: You'd rather they use signals? 10:24:00 i don't mind either way 10:24:14 I'd just like all my "wait for something to happen" to be able to be one mechanism 10:24:18 yeah 10:24:24 either wait-next-event or poll/select 10:24:44 I don't really care which, I'm going to make a function that does it anyway 10:24:46 factor's high-level apis are all blocking 10:25:01 but all my stuff like monitors, mmap, file system meta-data queries are platform-independent 10:25:58 --- join: forther (n=forther@c-67-180-150-67.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 10:26:32 At work we use an event-completion notion, implemented on Linux via select() and Windows via WaitForMultipleObjects(). 10:26:55 factor has bindings for select(), epoll(), kqueue(), WFMO() and IOCPs 10:27:04 it doesn't use epoll() right now 10:27:11 and only uses kqueue() for file system events 10:27:24 epoll() doesn't support files and kqueue() only works with sockets 10:27:26 which is a pissoff 10:27:39 actually kqueue() works with sockets and files, but not ttys 10:27:57 on windows we use WFMO and IOCPs 10:28:24 Yeah, same trick. 10:28:28 this is just used to multiplex i/o for 'green' threads 10:29:02 when factor gains multicore support, i'll either swtich to 1:1 threading and ditch all my non-blocking machinery, or do m:n threading 10:29:14 depending on how efficient native threads are on the platforms i care about 10:29:26 Go with m:n threading, if you can. 10:29:30 i'd love to not have non-blocking i/o code, its hairy and platform-specific 10:29:42 i'm not sure m:n is so important anymore 10:29:46 native threads are getting cheaper 10:29:56 and you don't have to worry about a C call blocking a cluster of threads 10:30:20 Yeah, if you don't have C lib support for m:n, and you need it, life gets complicated. 10:30:43 right now our sqlite and postgres libraries block the entire vm while doing queries 10:30:47 which is crappy 10:30:54 with m:n you'd have similar issues, but to a lesser extent 10:31:24 Don't they have thread-safe libraries? 10:31:30 they're thread-safe, sure 10:31:35 but they're not non-blocking 10:31:46 factor's vm runs in one native thread right now 10:31:52 Ah, I missed that part. 10:32:02 next year i'm adding 1:1 or m:n threading 10:33:10 I've done multi-threading for so long that I just assumed :-) 10:33:25 i'm not up for writing a concurrent GC right now 10:33:30 or concurrent hashtables etc 10:33:35 i need to learn more 10:34:53 unfortuantely java is the only language implementation i know with concurrent gc 12:47:22 man, why have I been sleeping so much 12:47:25 hard to get much work done 12:47:59 even if I hadn't spent 1.5 hours on my forthish project, I'd still be short on work time today 12:48:08 otoh I did get my phone calls done 13:30:50 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 14:42:49 --- quit: forther ("Leaving") 15:02:01 --- join: I440r (n=mark4@70.102.202.140) joined #forth 15:08:09 --- join: Quartus` (n=Quartus`@205.205.178.5) joined #forth 15:41:18 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 15:41:18 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 15:44:23 crap! found a bug in my db_count() function 15:44:34 that is _not_ the first place I looked 16:01:34 --- join: Deformati (n=joe@c-68-61-240-49.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) joined #forth 16:01:35 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@c-76-120-54-133.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 16:01:44 Has anyone purchased a forthdrive? 16:02:37 Deformati, not I, what is it? 16:02:47 a super dooper small forth interperter on a flash drive? 16:02:52 in i386? 16:02:59 (NOTE: I have no idea, so guessing) 16:03:55 It is a seaforth-24 processor on a usb drive to introduce people to embedded seaforth technology. 16:04:34 haven't heard of anybody buying seaforth-anything 16:05:56 I am going to email and see if they will consider selling to hobbiests in small quantities. 16:07:41 Last I read, they didn't have enough to start selling them yet. 16:08:06 I haven't checked in a while, but certainly we'd have seen something in c.l.f. 16:08:33 Oh. 16:09:04 :( 16:09:08 They look so cool. 16:21:39 Last I heard, they had them in small quantities and were accepting applications...giving them out to people they thought were most likely to make interesting things with them. 16:22:16 I *think* someone said something about having bigger quantities late this year or early next, but I could be totally wrong about that. 16:22:19 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:24:07 Oh goody! 16:24:20 Then they may consider selling one to me. 16:28:59 --- join: I440r (n=mark4@70.102.202.140) joined #forth 17:00:56 --- quit: aguai (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:04:38 --- join: I440r_ (n=mark4@70.102.202.140) joined #forth 17:04:43 --- quit: JasonWoof ("Leaving.") 17:06:00 I wouldn't hold my breath, Deformati. 17:10:32 --- join: aguai (n=aguai@host86-136-129-6.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 17:10:50 hi 17:12:06 hi 17:12:58 hi 17:13:18 hey slava. 17:15:53 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:23:20 Quartus`: :( 17:23:29 Do you have one? 17:34:40 --- quit: I440r_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:37:44 : PLOT# ( n -- ) 0 DO [CHAR] - EMIT LOOP CR ; <-anyone would explain the meaning of the [CHAR]? 17:40:22 gives a '-' character 17:40:44 that spits out a line of dashes, followed by a newline. 17:41:17 [CHAR] parses the next word and compiles a literal with the value of the first character. 17:44:59 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@210.188.173.246) joined #forth 17:45:57 --- join: edrx (i=edrx@189.25.182.163) joined #forth 17:46:17 tathi: well... 17:47:10 ... 17:47:12 tathi: it act just like this ->: PLOT# ( n -- ) 0 DO ." -" LOOP CR ; 17:47:44 sure 17:48:25 tathi: [CHAR] parse - and pass it to EMIT <-am I right? 17:48:46 ya. [CHAR] - leaves '-' on the stack 17:48:54 EMIT takes a character off the stack and prints it. 17:49:33 hi tathi 17:49:44 hey slava 17:49:48 how's it going? 17:50:46 tathi: so [CHAR] are quite the same meaning with CHAR when under interpretor... 17:51:08 tathi: thx :) you are really kind 17:52:06 aguai: yes, use CHAR in the interpreter, [CHAR] in definitions. 17:52:13 pff. that's what the channel is here for. 17:54:18 --- part: edrx left #forth 18:07:41 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 18:34:38 --- join: Al2O3_ (n=Al2O3@c-76-120-54-133.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 18:40:47 --- quit: Al2O3 (Connection timed out) 19:00:51 where can I find more about return stack? 19:01:33 the pforth tutor doesn't tell much....:( 19:02:00 >r pushes, r> pops 19:02:01 that's all 19:02:08 r@ is r> dup >r 19:03:37 slava: >r push to where... 19:03:49 >r moves the top of the data stack to the return stack 19:06:30 slava: is there any example...I mean I ve tried that in interpretor and it act quite ...unusual.... 19:07:05 8 r> ok 19:07:05 . . -1214382564 8 ok 19:07:11 like this 19:07:13 yeah you can only use it in a colon def and if its balanced with a r> in the same word 19:07:29 : foo >r + r> / ; 19:07:37 4 2 3 foo . 19:07:38 2 19:10:19 4 2 3 push to rs and plus (2?) then push back and devide(3).... 19:10:22 ??? 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