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#forth 15:15:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 15:16:10 --- quit: crest_ (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)) 15:16:28 --- join: reuben (n=bcollver@75.145.67.114) joined #forth 15:17:36 are there colorforth users in the channel? 15:25:20 Hi reuben, can I help? 15:27:16 reuben: we also have a chat for colorforth specifically at #c4th-ot . :) 15:28:32 Raystm2: I was thinking about playing with it, but the page I viewed had mostly dead links. 15:28:54 Raystm2: I do not think I could put up with the forced Dvorak binding. Is that easy to disable? 15:29:21 depends on the system you are using. 15:29:22 --- quit: mark4 ("Leaving") 15:29:33 colorforth for windows comes with a qwerty mode. 15:30:42 I emplore you to try the chuck-vorak keyboard. not hard to use. much like a game interface, especially since all of the key options are changeable. 15:30:56 took me all of an hour to get used to it. 15:31:25 Have you had a look at http://colorforthray.info 15:32:31 Raystm2: I read a page where Chuck criticized computer programs for having interfaces featuring puzzle solving. 15:33:35 I've read that as well. :) 15:34:27 nice link you gave me, i've considered turning my ultra10 into a forth machine 15:35:17 * Raystm2 pretending to know what an ultra10 is and acting like he's totally not just wikipedia-ing the thing as he says... 15:35:23 hey that's neat. :) lol 15:35:52 sun ultrasparc in minitower chassis and pc-style motherboard chipset 15:36:06 boots openfirmware 15:36:25 * Raystm2 checking out specs now... is neat! 15:37:15 nice machine :) 15:37:39 sun does give specs for much of it 15:37:53 but then i'd be hacking OFW, not cf 15:37:57 that like I gave you is my own site. If you find things lacking, or need anything not mentioned you only need to say something, okay :) 15:38:09 do you use email much? 15:38:27 Ray.stmarie at gmail 15:38:52 I check it about 1-2 a week, to be honest. 15:39:45 i really wish it was easy to disable the dvorak puzzle game 15:39:45 bah. learn normal forth first, you can always play with quirky things like colorforth later if you really have to. 15:40:31 actually, rueben that's good advice. 15:40:34 I had to do so. 15:40:47 tathi: i imagine using it to read and transcribe books, but i also like that colorforth can run on junker hardware with relatively little resources 15:41:04 that's forth in general really. 15:41:12 reuben: try retroforth, then. 15:41:27 I believe it'll run anywhere colorforth will, and more. 15:41:34 the author of retroforth frequents here under the nick crc 15:41:45 he has several of his own chats dedicated to retro as well. 15:41:45 tathi: one of the points on Raystm2's page is that colorforth is easy to grasp as a whole. is this also true of retroforth? 15:41:58 yes 15:41:59 maybe more so for retroforth. 15:42:09 i'm sold, i'll tinker with retroforth in bochs 15:42:11 retroforth is better documented 15:42:14 actually more so for retroforth lol 15:42:18 colorforth just sort of escaped 15:42:19 :) 15:42:35 retroforth was released 15:42:43 there is only a loose group of users world wide anymore. 15:42:50 does retroforth run on a unix kernel? 15:42:51 colorforth that is. 15:42:55 retro has legs. 15:43:00 indeed. 15:43:02 retroforth runs on most anything x86, I think. 15:43:18 specifically designed to run on anything x86 as tathi supposes. 15:43:29 raystm2: if it runs on a unix kernel, then i imagine it is complicated compared to colorforth 15:43:40 why? 15:43:44 different kind of complicated. 15:43:53 retroforth has a simple core 15:44:00 then separate code for each OS it runs under 15:44:03 the complicated of retroforth is mainstream complication with lots of documentation. 15:44:16 colorforth, you need to know somebody to run it well. 15:44:23 I don't think there's much difference in the complexity of the various implementations of I/O etc. 15:45:33 colorforth is not particularly simpler than any other minimal forth 15:45:36 --- join: I440r (n=mark4_@70.102.202.140) joined #forth 15:45:47 or smaller, or anything. 15:47:00 the simplicity of colorforth is in the environment you are left with after properly booting. 15:47:06 tathi: because between the hardware and the forth, you have a big kernel of complex code that may need debugging 15:47:18 the editor is bondage. 15:47:38 does retroforth come with a nice editor? 15:47:42 reuben: in practice, an OS which is being used by tons of people isn't going to need debugging. 15:47:53 the retroforth implementations are rather well supported. 15:48:14 also, would retroforth be suitable for typing in a book? i am not sure how this would be done without a filesystem. 15:48:14 not really. it comes with a minimal editor that can be easilly extended. 15:48:24 and a unix kernel is generally less complex to use than interacting directly with hardware. 15:48:30 retroforth can use the normal filesystem 15:48:55 tathi: i read the colorforth "hard disk driver", it seems to just be simple BIOS calls 15:49:08 no bios calls in colorforth. 15:49:21 only one to start display during boot. 15:49:42 reuben: still, bios calls versus calls to a linux or freebsd kernel is pretty much a wash. 15:49:47 everything else is direct memory access to previously encoded routines. 15:49:48 oops, i said BIOS calls 15:50:00 not sure how I crossed those wires.. i meant simple PIO 15:50:18 no fancy stuff 15:50:26 that is true. 15:50:27 sure, some of the hardware is pretty standardized and simple to use. 15:50:34 forth does that :) 15:51:03 gotta take R3 to work, back hour. 15:51:32 * reuben hasn't done hardware level coding since using ms-dos 15:52:06 i take that back, i have done a small amount in netbsd 15:53:07 got a half-working port of svgalib, chatted with s.m.a.r.t. "registers", and other tinkering 15:53:57 well, if you like tinkering with that stuff, then it's useful to have a forth that runs on bare hardware 15:54:51 my immediate goal is to read and write books on ancient hardware 15:55:04 and maybe learn a little more forth along the way 15:55:15 something so ancient that it won't run a small unix system install? 15:55:54 good point, i only have 1 computer that falls in that category, a laptop that isn't suitable for linux 15:56:15 i suppose it oculd be done with a floppy drive and an old enough version of linux that it could run in 4mb ram 15:56:20 I mean, whatever works for you, but I find that a real operating system is handy. 15:56:34 ok you talked me out of using forth =) 15:57:33 i am currently using a windows ce device for the job, but i can tell it is wearing down.. next in line is an old laptop with a cd drive and enough memory to run puppy linux 15:58:01 heh 16:04:30 tathi: what do you do in forth? 16:04:51 play around, mostly. :( 16:05:03 I got stuck in the writing-forth-implementations trap for quite a while 16:05:47 I'm currently working on an analog to perl's HTML::Template so I can rewrite the invoicing system for my family's farm from PHP to Forth. 16:05:54 But we'll see if I ever actually finish that... 16:06:17 i wrote simplistic support for the fat12 filesystem in gforth, then tried to make it object oriented for easy drive to drive copies, but my brain hurt and i dropped forth 16:06:51 it seems to take a while to really get it. 16:07:16 i love tcl and php. i can't put a finger on it, but php just seems easiest to me. 16:07:46 never used tcl... 16:08:42 php is handy, especially the way it has bindings to everything you can imagine 16:09:04 but it just always feels like such a quick-and-dirty hack 16:10:07 I suppose I should just break down and learn Factor, but I really like low-level languages. :) :( 16:11:05 i like things to be easy. SQL is awesome. 16:12:08 Yeah, if I have actual work to do I'll take the easy way. 16:13:50 I've done a fair bit of SQL/PHP work. 16:15:30 we have an sql database access library in factor 16:15:49 right now it supports postgres and sqlite, and we're going to add mysql, oracle and odbc soon 16:16:01 we have the bindings written for the latter three they're just not intergrated into the high level abstraction layer 16:16:04 oh, I thought you had mysql already too. 16:16:05 ah. 16:16:28 the abstraction layer is nice, you define a mapping between objects and rows 16:16:41 then just insert/update/delete objects and it takes care of the sql commands and type conversions 16:16:49 very nice 16:24:15 --- join: JoshGrams (n=josh@dsl-216-227-90-175.fairpoint.net) joined #forth 16:31:15 --- quit: tathi (Nick collision from services.) 16:31:21 --- nick: JoshGrams -> tathi 16:31:27 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 16:33:32 --- quit: I440r ("Leaving") 17:09:48 Hi. 17:10:19 hey 17:30:27 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 18:59:45 --- join: AteAoFimDoMundo (i=email@89-180-53-177.net.novis.pt) joined #forth 19:13:48 --- join: Deformative (n=joe@c-68-61-240-49.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:14:18 --- part: Deformative left #forth 19:16:48 --- quit: X-Scale (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:22:02 --- quit: mark4_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:22:19 --- join: mark4_ (n=mark4@63-229-121-143.phnx.qwest.net) joined #forth 20:19:22 --- quit: Quartus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:19:26 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM001947482b20.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 20:19:26 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 20:20:01 --- quit: AteAoFimDoMundo (Client Quit) 20:22:24 --- join: X-Scale (i=email@89-180-53-177.net.novis.pt) joined #forth 20:30:13 --- join: Bushmills (n=l@verhau.de) joined #forth 20:30:20 g'day 20:31:00 I called in last week to mention some work on the macro system of an existing text editor, eFTE. 20:31:14 with received Forthish extensions 20:31:21 cool 20:31:45 it is progressing. macros look like this, for example: sub Gcd { Begin Tuck Mod Qdup Not Until } 20:32:13 now the editor made it into gentoo, a debian package is in progress of being made, archlinux is supported. 20:32:23 compiles to os/2, windows, bsd, mac 20:32:49 why are word names capitalized? 20:33:12 because until 3 hours ago, the macros where case sensitive. which they aren't anymore now. 20:33:48 I just added the do ... loop contruct 20:34:43 editor itself is rather powerful. comes with folding and such default. new macros contribute to make it even more powerful. 20:35:22 so keep the name in mind: eFTE. as the script language should appeal to forth coders. 20:36:05 http://efte.sourceforge.net 20:37:20 --- quit: Al2O3 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:39:28 http://efte.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/efte/trunk/config/primitives.fte?revision=680&view=markup a file from svn, a current config file, actually. 20:48:55 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@c-76-120-54-133.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 20:59:05 bush does it allow me to put the cursor ANYWHERE i want? i.e. does it allow me to put it 20 characters beyond the END of an existing line and start typing? 20:59:21 and does it inject the right number of spaces so that im typing where i put the cursor? 21:00:06 this shitzoid cursor movement thats all the rage these days just annoys me. if i cursor up the cursor should go UP. ONCE. not up one left 20 etc etc 21:01:11 mark4_: yes 21:01:21 mark4_: configurable the one or the other way 21:02:05 a configuration variable, to switch from one to the other behaviour, exists 21:02:42 another one controls trailing white space (keep, or delete automatically) 21:02:46 cool 21:03:01 thts one of my major gripes with "modern" editors 21:03:23 multi source ? 21:03:33 tastes differ. looks like you can only make it right for everybody bt providing all behaviours 21:03:36 yes 21:04:19 not extremely compact. but in comparison with the competition, acceptable. 21:04:28 if it were a 100% functional replacement for multi edit version 3.01 i would like it lol 21:04:36 about 700k now. 21:04:41 after that the ONLY editor i have found that i "like" is codewright 21:04:44 it has a multi edit key mapping 21:04:47 joe in *nix is useable tho 21:04:59 i remapped my multi edit keys 21:05:04 in unix console input is a bitch 21:05:16 if the console doest steal the keys the freeking OS does 21:05:21 efte is about 300 k bigger than joe 21:05:25 the X version. 21:05:33 and 250 k, console version 21:06:09 I have used multiedit too, but the msdos versiob 21:06:11 ion 21:06:25 first macro I wrote was a cooperative multitasker 21:06:39 how many key presses does it take to perform MOST tasks 21:07:03 i.e. control, alt, shift or any combination thereof plus other keys. or escape followed by key etc 21:07:22 if you don't use wordstar or emacs keymap, functions are mapped to single stroke keys 21:07:23 to me. ALL operations in an editor should be accomplished with TWO KEYPRESSES max 21:07:38 and that includes controls alts and shifts. joe fails here too 21:07:50 erm. single? 21:07:53 yes, combinations configurable. alt-key, ctrl-key, ctrl-alt-key... 21:08:09 i count contrl plus k as TWO keypresses 21:08:12 not one 21:08:38 so. escape : shift backspace backspace f10 (now your in overwrite) is pure bullshit ( i HATE vi lol ) 21:08:48 misunderstood, I thought you referred to ctlr-k-x type of key sequences 21:08:59 or ctrl-X-C 21:09:16 i do. tahts where JOE fails. contrl k x is three keypresses. at least he doesnt go beyond that most times 21:09:53 i know WHY its a problem. YOu as the author of an editor cannot guarantee that ^y would ever be seen by your editor 21:10:08 well. function keys are mappable, grey keypad keys are, cursor pad, 21:10:14 those are all single stroke 21:10:59 oh. and nano/pico are totally unacceptable because of zero undo functionality 21:11:48 has full undo/redo 21:11:51 editors are a major pain to write in unix but that doesnt mean they should be a major pain to use lol 21:12:04 yea i would assume so 21:12:43 what made you pick forth as a scripting language? 21:13:33 easy parsing, parameter passing, and limited conflict with available macro resources. 21:13:49 implementation straightforward, 21:15:07 just take paramter passing between macros. not using a persistent stack for it .. I wouldn't know where to start :) 21:15:38 hehe yea that would be hard 21:15:44 what is the rest of the editor coded in? 21:15:59 mostly c style c++ 21:16:33 (efte is a fork of fte, so we has to work with what we got) 21:16:50 aha 21:17:10 script lang was one of the deficiencies 21:17:27 just sequential execution 21:17:37 lists of commands. 21:17:52 it *really* needed some flow control 21:18:09 a way to take and code decisions into macros 21:18:24 im actualy not a big fan of folding editors, the effort to fold and unfold all the time makes the folding operation not worthwhile 21:18:45 and i LIKE to be constantly going over existing code. i often make tweaks here and there as im coding 21:18:51 well, key bindings can be configured. 21:18:52 or change comments etc 21:18:55 ya 21:19:02 just remove the folding stuff frm key map 21:19:05 folding editors dont usually AUTO fold heh 21:20:50 oh, it is in gentoo now btw. but masked. 21:21:05 just got the ebuild added yesterday 21:21:43 i was shocked to see an isforth ebuild out there but its not IN gentoo yet, not even masked 21:22:00 why shocked? 21:22:21 even for bashforth exists an ebuild 21:22:28 (masked too) 21:22:45 bashforth has one and so does one other. bigforth? i ferget 21:22:51 neither of which is a REAL forth compiler 21:22:57 gforth, bigforth, 21:23:05 by my definition isforth isnt a real forth compiler yet 21:23:15 native ELF binaries? 21:23:30 no. a real forth compiler can META compile its own sources 21:23:32 isforth cant 21:24:05 and nobody in their right mind would ever write a C compiling extension to forth. and even if they did any forth written in C and compiled with it STILL wouldnt be a real forth heh 21:25:04 metacompiling isforth is left as exercise to the user 21:25:19 so don't complain that it doesn't :) 21:25:29 make it metacompile, hehe 21:25:53 it will never metacompile without an assembler :( 21:25:58 which for the life of me i cannot write 21:26:02 can be implemented 21:26:41 well. i wont use any assembler that requires a major rewrite of the existing kernel sources 21:26:51 but x86 assembler implementation is a pita 21:26:59 now. if i have "mov eax,1" and the forth compiler requires "mov eax, # 1" then thats acceptable 21:27:28 but "mov eax, [ebx + 2* ecx] becomong mov ax. [somebullshitherethatsnotevenclosetomycode] then fuckit 21:27:42 done a good part of an x86 assembler for http://wiki.forthfreak.net/index.cgi?NativeCodeCompiler 21:27:51 bigforths assembler is a classic example of that. ax and eax are "AX" for example 21:27:59 wasn't the most pleasant tihing I ever did 21:28:25 well. i want an assembler for isforth that will take the E X I S T I N G sources (with a space here or there for the parser) and assemble them 21:28:39 http://forthfreak.net/compiler.f assembler is part of this 21:28:45 none of taht 5 # ax mov crap either. i cant stand bass ackwards assembler :( 21:29:38 the guy that wrote the win 32 forth assembler said i can use it but that one i could never use even tho it has sane syntax 21:29:42 its PURE gpl 21:29:52 so any executable its attached to becomes PURE gpl 21:29:57 not acceptablke 21:29:59 acceptable 21:30:17 "attached to"? 21:30:30 assembler generates object. 21:30:38 if i compile that assembler with my compiler i extend my compiler with it. IT becomes part of my compiler 21:30:39 after that, aassembler is not part of it any more 21:30:44 therefore my compiler becomes PURE gpl 21:30:48 not "attached" to binary 21:30:53 YES 21:30:55 it IS 21:31:05 not acceptable 21:31:21 it might not be part of the target binary 21:31:26 but its part of the HOST binary 21:31:54 ok 21:31:56 therefore the HOST (which contains a previous incantation of the target) becomes GPL. so does that incantation of the target 21:32:24 cant use it. cant use the assembler that came with FPC either because it makes use of a quirk of FPC 21:32:36 no. only the target to which you add the assembler 21:32:39 colon definitins and coded definitions are compiled/assembled into different areas 21:32:52 and the assembler makes heavy use of this knowledge 21:33:58 you don't need an assembler for colon definitions. I thought you were talking about meta compilation. 21:34:17 i.e. load assembler for meta compilation. not make it permanent part of the system 21:34:52 ok. my kernel is assembled with NASM. i want to get rid of tat dep 21:35:01 then the meta compiler (forth plus assembler) may have to be gpl when distributed. but not the metacompiled target without the assembler loaded 21:35:12 at least 50% of the : defs in the existing extensions should be recoded as CODED defs 21:35:19 nope 21:35:25 isforth has a modified LGPL license 21:36:02 the modification being as follows 21:36:28 when you create an application executable with isforth, PART of taht executable will be "MY COMPILER". 21:36:32 that part of it is LGPL 21:36:50 the part of it that was created from your sources can have ANY fucking licence you want on it. 21:37:03 i.e. ONE executable with two licenses on it 21:37:55 that way, you can create a commercial CLOSED source application and NOT have to disclose your sources just because its physically attached to my forth 21:45:31 --- quit: neceve (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:47:26 for a commercial system - wouldn't you prefer to use your own compiler? regardless of license - just so you know how and where to fix it should it be needed. 21:48:15 isforth IS my own compiler lol and no... not everyone that wants to write an app wants to spend $9854.57 for some commercial compiler 21:48:25 my compiler allows for commercial applications and is FREE 21:49:37 ah, didn't make the link between i440 and mark4 with changed nick 21:49:44 oh lol 21:50:15 I440r is my usual nick, Ibanez 440 radius. this is my login name on my machine 21:50:20 hi 21:50:21 because im Mark I Manning IV 21:50:27 I know 21:50:31 ya 21:50:35 been using other nicks too 21:50:57 ive not actually done any work on isforth is maybe 3 years or more 21:51:13 i JUST started writing an 8051 development environment in a DOS port of isforth 21:51:44 the 8051 assembler and disassembler in isforth have had some bug fixes (stupid ones, i must have been on crack or something) 21:51:50 and i wrote an 8051 simulator 21:52:09 posted the sources to the simulator on comp.lang.forth lol 21:52:24 ok .... ... Do I Dot Loop works . 21:52:29 when i posted the sources to the assembler some people bitched at me for doing it lol 21:52:39 need LEAVE now ... 21:52:57 hello, men. 21:52:57 leave and undo 21:53:08 (first time I ever code something in bloody stupid c++) 21:53:16 undo or errrr... (camp voice) unloop 21:53:28 nah. no need for unloop 21:53:37 stacks are circular. 21:53:39 i hate that name too 21:53:41 grrr 21:53:46 and return stack not needed for return addresses 21:53:52 circular? 21:53:53 I can simply leave stuff on return stack 21:53:56 yes 21:54:00 same as on the SEAforth chip 21:54:09 totally dont need drop. just leave it there :) 21:54:12 circular in what sense? 21:54:23 a stack overflow and a stack underflow WRAP 21:54:32 that's bizzare 21:54:35 limited size, and pointer wrapping around 21:54:41 so, anywhere y6ou would normally need a drop you just leave it there 21:54:51 the seaforth processors do the same thing 21:54:56 I could though I keep stack balanced. 21:55:13 is more meant that stack doesn't grow infinitely when users write macros, and complain about mem leaks ... 21:55:24 lol 21:55:27 i've not used an unloop in colorforth yet. but i havn't used an early exit yet either. I could do with one in one program, so's I don't have to loop over all of the data when I find the condition I'm looking for... but i've not had so much data that, even tho it's not efficient to loop over it all, I can do so anyway and not have too much of a time penalty . 21:55:41 its called UNDO dammit! 21:55:56 do and UNDO. another NON broken thing that ans decided to DUN FIX 21:56:07 leave will do. 21:56:12 ya 21:56:29 though, even exit from loop will 21:56:30 macros can call other macros yes? 21:56:34 yes 21:56:44 do DO loops have their own stack? 21:56:49 if not you need undo 21:56:53 I do have a great undo feature in my Gforth/ans chess tho. brings you right back to the previous condition. 21:56:56 yes. 21:57:02 : blah 100 0 do something if undo exit loop ; 21:57:18 you cant exit from blah in the middle without an undo unless loops use some stack other than the return stack 21:57:19 Bushmills: but what if you eed to use the value undereath? you still have to drop 21:57:35 over 21:57:35 it sounds icredibly error proe 21:57:39 slava, I *do* keep stack clean and balanced 21:58:13 slava, meant to protect user against badly written macros, which would gobble up tons of memory otherwise 21:58:13 i do't see the point 21:58:21 then limit the stacksize 21:58:24 jslava on CLF thers a posting about seaforth doing FIB calculations 21:58:29 its from the seaforth forum 21:58:31 go look at it 21:58:34 and produce "stack overflow" ? 21:58:38 sure 21:58:50 well, with circular stack, size is also limited. 21:59:01 except if you over/underflow, you just get bogus results instead of an error 21:59:03 but no need for "stack overflow" 21:59:08 fail-fast is an important concept in software engineering 21:59:16 not when I overflow 21:59:19 good point. 21:59:32 so you'd rather corrupt data than raise an error? 21:59:56 but, when I drop all items, and then try to use stack items, then I will have garbage on stack 22:00:25 well, first dropping 64 or 128 stack items, and then hope that you find something meaningful there ... 22:00:36 doesn't really sound like a common forth technique 22:00:43 :) 22:01:34 my father wrote a serial protocol that didnt use serial buffers, all characters were received to the stack and then processed off the stack 22:01:37 it was weird 22:01:48 maybe, what applies to "software engineering" doesn't in its totality apply to editor macros? 22:01:58 :) 22:02:11 you are right for system programming 22:02:39 but I'm not sure whether you still are when letting unexperienced users loose on stacks 22:03:09 in that case, a more enduring or tolerating scheme may be preferable 22:03:18 mark4 i've heard much from you about your father over the years and I feel at a loss that he doesn't participate here. At least we get him vicariously thru you. :) 22:03:31 and circular stacks are more tolerant towards mistakes 22:05:25 I mean, would it be really helpful if I'd crash the editor, when there is a "0 >r" in a macro? 22:05:55 for no reason than to emphasize the "fail fast" principle? 22:06:28 To reveal a horrible bug, yes. 22:06:55 i write hairy macros in jedit 22:06:56 colorforth editor doesn't fail per se, but if you try to load code with a word undefined, the editor reports back by leaving the cursor behind the undefined word. 22:07:03 HEY Q! 22:07:10 Hey Ray. 22:07:33 I've missed you terribly. All y'all really. 22:07:41 Come by more often. 22:08:10 I hope you are still being successful with your robots and your other building hobby products and your forths. 22:08:19 Quartus: what are your thoughts on circular way? 22:08:19 So far so good. How are things? 22:08:21 AND your book. 22:08:36 I think underflow is an error and should be reported. 22:08:37 improving dramatically. 22:08:48 Glad to hear, Ray. 22:08:50 As should overflow. 22:09:05 I have provisions for reporting underflow. 22:09:08 stacks* 22:09:19 I also think that a stack has a depth. 22:09:24 but I am comfortable with eliminating overflow 22:09:25 This year, I'll try growning my own health food, veg and herbs. :) 22:09:41 by thinking of "top x items are valid" 22:09:42 Good deal, Ray :) 22:09:45 I'd like to included computer controls of my own define in the grow process. 22:09:58 Plant a few chips, see what grows 22:10:06 Indeed! :) 22:10:07 you should see the macros i created for my DOS port of isforth. they not only create LINKED word headers, they create fully hashed vocabularies :) 22:13:40 freeking google limiting line widths in CLF to less than 80 chars grrr 22:13:59 my sources never go beyond 75 chars per line and google is STILL fucking up its formatting 22:14:09 no real nntp client? 22:14:22 nope 22:14:39 no isp either. so i cant use my isp's nntp server to post so i POST thru google 22:15:25 yeah, finding nntp server for posting can be a bit cumbersome. 22:16:25 well im not really interested in CLF, the signal has been buried by the noise 22:16:33 werty 22:16:39 still???? 22:16:39 and others 22:16:43 doty 22:16:46 fox 22:17:02 werty was trolling 5 years ago. 22:17:18 gavino 22:17:31 the mi5 guy 22:17:32 he was busy with some super ARM forth system then .. revolutionary, of course 22:17:47 newforth os 22:17:48 I think the whole system in 3 instructions, or such 22:17:53 no text 22:17:57 just icons 22:17:58 3 times faster than the cpu 22:18:14 he is the worlds greatest systems programmer 22:18:14 and programs writing themselves 22:18:22 only look at the screen 22:18:27 LUDDITES!!! 22:18:30 hehe 22:18:44 no need to understand 22:19:01 no need to even think 22:19:18 he claimed he could write newforth i 2 days 22:20:28 and jeff fox ... still flaming anybody who says "stack pointer" ? 22:20:54 mostly he posts incoherent rants about how evil C programmers are 22:21:36 and how seaforth is 1000x faster than 'pentium' 22:21:45 doty is the forth-alike space guy? calling his system forth but always highlighting its differences? 22:22:21 he thinks forth failed and lse64 is his attempt torevive it 22:22:39 does he still work with CM? 22:22:40 well, not a lot happened there in the last 5 years then 22:22:50 haha 22:22:54 sounds all very familiar 22:25:08 Rather is the only one who posts about legitimate and interesting usages of Forth 22:25:30 everyone else is either trolling or ranting about alleged misdeeds against the Forth community perpetrated by other programmers 22:25:38 stephen pelc posts good stuff 22:25:40 oh yeah 22:25:49 and MH too 22:25:56 tho i dont like either of their coding styles 22:26:09 neither of THEM is a CLF troll heh 22:26:32 erm albert van der horst? 22:26:45 there's that CoSy guy 22:26:49 i'm not sure if he's legit or a kook 22:26:51 brad eckert 22:26:56 coos haak 22:27:08 he might be a legit kook :) 22:27:17 his assembler is worse than brain*($& 22:27:19 cos or brad? 22:27:25 albert 22:27:32 ciforth guy? 22:27:49 erm yea 22:27:50 I met albert in RL 22:27:51 i think so 22:27:53 his assembler is less readable than hex 22:27:59 ya lol 22:28:08 but also coos, and mh 22:28:19 but that doesnt put him on the same level as gavino or werty 22:28:30 what about the mindforth guy? 22:28:43 rick hohensee? 22:28:46 erm 22:28:51 is that even forth? 22:29:05 that's the bash asm guy? 22:29:29 i forget his name. 22:29:36 shasm 22:29:43 shell assembler 22:29:46 ian osgood! 22:29:55 theres a good poster guy! 22:30:01 yeah 22:30:18 but CLF is dead. has been for a very long time 22:32:03 tho... this place doesnt seem MUCH more alive lol. i hardly see ANYONE here talk except a few 22:32:10 clog never speaks! 22:44:45 lol i LOVE jeff minter... 22:44:55 Couldn?t really sleep that well last night, so got up early this morning, couple of hours before launch. 22:44:57 lol 23:04:21 --- join: sauvin (i=sauvin@74-136-191-181.dhcp.insightbb.com) joined #forth 23:31:22 --- quit: mark4_ ("Leaving") 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/08.02.15