00:00:00 --- log: started forth/08.02.01 00:01:45 --- join: [Forth] (n=Forth@70-58-114-224.phnx.qwest.net) joined #forth 00:03:29 --- join: I440r (n=mark4@70-58-114-224.phnx.qwest.net) joined #forth 00:03:29 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 00:15:47 --- join: arke (n=arke@p54A7C7CA.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 00:15:47 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 00:19:15 --- quit: arke_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:38:19 --- quit: nighty^ ("Disappears in a puff of smoke") 01:19:43 --- join: ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) joined #forth 03:27:47 --- quit: X-Scale (Remote closed the connection) 05:15:29 --- join: Bushmill1 (n=l@212.2.174.191) joined #forth 05:16:34 --- quit: Bushmills (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:01:28 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@p2007-adsau16honb13-acca.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) joined #forth 06:12:19 --- nick: Bushmill1 -> Bushmills 06:22:34 Anyone aware of a forth that's been interfaced with Tkinter? 06:42:17 Not that I know of, but someone might have done something with gforth's foreign library interface. 07:27:31 --- join: DocPlatypus (n=doc@mousetrap.platypuslabs.org) joined #forth 07:39:17 --- quit: ramkrsna ("Leaving") 07:46:10 anyone awake? 07:50:07 Nope. 07:51:04 *pinch* 07:51:18 * Bushmills didn't feel it 07:52:05 heh 08:16:24 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@c-75-70-5-69.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:40:25 --- quit: ecraven ("bbl") 09:02:26 --- join: ramkrsna (n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna) joined #forth 09:04:50 --- join: X-Scale (i=none@89-180-83-43.net.novis.pt) joined #forth 09:14:22 anyone here ever done a lot of work with large (larger than double-cell) numbers in Forth? 09:46:43 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-cb96beef0b82f3b1) joined #forth 09:55:59 --- quit: arke (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 09:59:19 Sounds like something for which you'd want primitives. 10:24:06 TreyB: perhaps, but you can get by without them. asking because I spent a few days writing words to handle triple, quad, etc. -- got easy once I just thought about it 10:26:02 and no, not a few days just on that... a few minutes here and there hacking at it. yes primitives are the way to go if you need every last bit of speed if you're e.g. tallying numbers for the US national debt 10:35:39 --- join: Quartus__ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.1) joined #forth 10:36:34 re quartus 10:39:01 isn't there a bignum package in the FSL? 11:06:51 I read "lot of work" as "crunch lots of data". If you don't do enough to show up in top slots when profiling the code then a non-primitive implementation works just fine. 11:08:05 Bushmills: there might be, I didn't really go looking 11:10:15 --- quit: Al2O3 () 11:30:38 --- quit: ramkrsna ("Leaving") 11:32:24 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@63-227-44-55.hlrn.qwest.net) joined #forth 11:42:10 Bushmills: factor has bignums 11:42:48 hi slava 11:43:03 DocPlatypus might be interested to hear about that 11:43:12 yeah and there are words to implement arbitrary precision in Forth as well 11:43:16 I knew about Factor and bignums 11:43:25 we've used factor's bignums to implement a variety of crypto algorithms 11:44:18 the words I wrote were for specific sizes of multicell numbers (triple, quad, hex, octo) and not all of the operations are done yet 11:45:05 figuring out how to do a /mod and thus be able to print was really fun. apparently if the numbers get too big at least in GNU Forth, um/mod will blow up with a bogus division by zero error 11:45:39 i'm not sure if gforth is really used in production much 11:46:05 do most sane Forths support the { } locals convention? 11:46:14 gforth does 11:46:18 yes I know that 11:46:26 I know kForth doesn't 11:46:44 I'd say, most sane Forths *don't* :P 11:46:49 oy 11:48:06 is VALUE considered evil as a rule? 11:48:13 i don't think so 11:48:19 why is it evil? 11:49:07 well I've noticed there's nothing in the standard yet about double or float values. seems to me it's a logical next step 11:49:16 there was a proposal for that on c.l.f 11:49:27 ah. I have not been following Usenet at all lately 11:50:47 yes at some point I will probably be making my own Forth as well. I may adopt some of the same concepts of its extensions without actually re-using code 11:51:09 do you plan on writing applications in forth? 11:51:22 yes, definitely 11:51:43 why nmake your own forth first then? 11:52:04 I may wind up making my own Forth as part of that 11:52:16 I like the concept of eForth for example. something like 29 words written in assembler 11:52:36 the rest are written in Forth 11:53:17 but I think it's possible to make a Forth with fewer words in assembler 11:53:31 --- quit: Al2O3 (Connection timed out) 11:53:31 definitely. 11:53:43 usually a speed vs portability tradeoff 11:54:11 you can implement and, or, xor with nand alone 11:54:29 you can build + from nand :) 11:54:49 yeah as a practical matter you probably would write either + or d+ in assembler 11:55:15 I built -! from +! once 11:55:26 : -! swap negate swap +! ; 11:56:07 --- join: Snoopy43 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-059-211-076.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 11:56:17 right now my o- (eight cell subtract) is similar to that based on my o+ 12:00:07 eForth codes um+ in assembler and + from that. something like: : + 0 um+ drop ; 12:02:14 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@233.sub-70-219-90.myvzw.com) joined #forth 12:02:34 I was surprised at the number of Forths I had that did not even have a d+ 12:04:24 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 12:04:24 --- nick: Snoopy43 -> Snoopy42 12:07:07 d+: The optional Double-Number word set 12:07:22 load double extensions ... 12:07:42 at least one of the Forths I was using wouldn't have it available at all 12:07:58 that being RetroForth (if I remember right) 12:08:05 that's what you have with "optional" 12:14:50 indeed 12:20:15 --- join: arke (n=arke@p57A752BF.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 12:20:15 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 12:22:32 bbl 12:22:36 --- quit: DocPlatypus ("Leaving") 13:07:39 --- quit: Quartus__ ("used jmIrc") 13:07:54 --- join: Quartus__ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.1) joined #forth 13:09:57 --- quit: arke (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:21:24 --- join: Al2O3_ (n=Al2O3@119.sub-70-219-35.myvzw.com) joined #forth 13:26:27 --- quit: Al2O3 (Connection timed out) 13:31:10 --- quit: Quartus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:31:26 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM001947482b20.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 13:31:26 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 13:32:51 --- quit: Al2O3_ (Client Quit) 13:35:44 --- part: Bushmills left #forth 13:41:52 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@162.sub-70-219-126.myvzw.com) joined #forth 13:57:19 --- quit: [Forth] (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:05:04 --- quit: Al2O3 (Connection timed out) 14:11:44 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 14:15:39 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@c-75-70-5-69.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 14:24:31 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 14:24:31 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 15:02:49 --- join: arke (n=arke@p54A7C7CA.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 15:02:49 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 16:02:08 --- quit: Quartus__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:28:46 --- join: Al2O3_ (n=Al2O3@c-75-70-5-69.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 16:32:25 --- join: viper|hr (n=xiper@v221-240.vps.tuwien.ac.at) joined #forth 16:44:23 --- quit: Al2O3 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:46:53 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 19:22:09 --- join: arke_ (n=arke@p54A7DAB7.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 19:34:26 --- join: johnnowak (n=jn@207-38-204-195.c3-0.wsd-ubr2.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com) joined #forth 19:37:19 --- quit: viper|hr (Remote closed the connection) 19:39:48 --- quit: arke (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:07:04 --- join: malyn_ (n=malyn@unaffiliated/malyn) joined #forth 20:08:25 --- quit: rbarraud (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:08:25 --- quit: TreyB (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:08:25 --- quit: slava (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:08:26 --- quit: ccfg (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:08:26 --- quit: Baughn (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:08:27 --- quit: johnnowak (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:08:27 --- quit: nighty^ (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:08:29 --- quit: maht (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:08:29 --- quit: segher (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:08:29 --- quit: malyn (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:09:03 --- nick: malyn_ -> malyn 20:14:57 --- join: maht (n=maht@85.189.31.174.proweb.managedbroadband.co.uk) joined #forth 20:15:42 --- join: johnnowak (n=jn@207-38-204-195.c3-0.wsd-ubr2.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com) joined #forth 20:18:20 --- join: slava (n=slava@li13-154.members.linode.com) joined #forth 20:18:20 --- join: rbarraud (n=rbarraud@gateway.quickcircuit.co.nz) joined #forth 20:18:20 --- join: TreyB (n=trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 20:18:20 --- join: Baughn (i=svein@084202038064.customer.alfanett.no) joined #forth 20:18:20 --- join: ccfg (n=pitkajus@tuomi.oulu.fi) joined #forth 20:18:20 --- mode: irc.freenode.net set +o slava 20:20:03 --- join: segher (n=segher@82-217-247-28.cable.quicknet.nl) joined #forth 20:23:16 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@p2007-adsau16honb13-acca.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) joined #forth 22:21:21 --- quit: X-Scale (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:29:31 --- join: ramkrsna (n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna) joined #forth 22:37:48 --- quit: johnnowak () 22:45:34 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:46:18 --- join: proteusguy (n=proteusg@ppp-124.120.226.54.revip2.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 23:19:49 --- join: X-Scale (i=none@89-180-40-175.net.novis.pt) joined #forth 23:58:25 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Ray_stma@unaffiliated/raystm2) joined #forth 23:59:16 I'm not here. Is anyone else not here? 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/08.02.01