00:00:00 --- log: started forth/07.11.22 00:01:07 --- quit: proteusguy ("Leaving") 00:14:15 --- join: Baughn (n=svein@084202038064.customer.alfanett.no) joined #forth 00:46:08 --- quit: Off_Namuh57 (Remote closed the connection) 01:15:55 --- join: Off_Namuh (i=GPS@gateway/tor/x-388ead0878aba53e) joined #forth 01:18:05 --- quit: Off_Namuh (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:06:59 --- join: doublec (n=doublec@203-211-103-62.ue.woosh.co.nz) joined #forth 02:16:11 --- quit: Al2O3 ("Eggplant & SenseTalk: Driving Success Through Automation") 02:26:37 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@75.sub-75-210-106.myvzw.com) joined #forth 03:05:17 --- join: Off_Namuh (i=GPS@gateway/tor/x-dcdaa6ee0261333d) joined #forth 03:06:54 --- quit: doublec () 03:21:33 --- quit: arcus ("Ex-Chat") 03:27:05 --- quit: Al2O3 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:01:07 --- join: proteusguy (n=proteusg@ppp-124.120.224.231.revip2.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 04:17:38 --- quit: Off_Namuh (Remote closed the connection) 04:19:47 --- join: Off_Namuh (i=GPS@gateway/tor/x-3c461d1d9b70e0c9) joined #forth 04:49:50 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote closed the connection) 06:22:42 --- quit: timlarson (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:22:54 --- join: timlarson__ (n=timlarso@user-12l37rb.cable.mindspring.com) joined #forth 06:51:11 --- join: nighty- (n=nighty-@66-163-28-100.ip.tor.radiant.net) joined #forth 06:57:49 --- quit: ecraven ("bbl") 08:14:04 Hey. 08:38:49 --- quit: FunG07 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:12:04 --- quit: Quartus__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:13:31 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@251.sub-70-215-86.myvzw.com) joined #forth 09:16:30 --- join: proteusguy (n=proteusg@ppp-124.120.224.231.revip2.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 09:29:27 --- join: madwork_ (n=foo@204.138.110.15) joined #forth 09:30:18 --- quit: madwork (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:40:18 --- join: edrx (i=edrx@189.25.48.241) joined #forth 09:40:43 --- quit: timlarson__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:41:49 --- quit: Deformati (Remote closed the connection) 09:42:08 --- join: Deformati (n=joe@c-68-61-240-49.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:42:34 --- join: Deform (n=joe@c-68-61-240-49.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:43:14 --- quit: Deformative (Nick collision from services.) 09:48:32 --- nick: Deform -> Deformative 10:10:35 hi. My inverted index is still not done, but maybe it's complete enough that feedback would be useful. 10:23:28 It's also a bit large for something to review all at once --- like, three pages of code. 10:59:20 --- nick: madwork_ -> madwork 11:06:51 Quartus! Have you tested your Forth under the Garnet VM on the N800? 11:23:58 --- join: forther (n=forther@c-67-180-150-67.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 11:32:21 so any comments on how to improve my terrible Forth would be appreciated: http://pobox.com/~kragen/tmp/invertedindex.fs.html 11:34:03 I say it's terrible because writing this search engine is going much more slowly than I expected, because I keep writing stupid bugs that take me forever to track down. 11:34:21 Very different from my experience in, say, C. So I figure I'm probably doing something wrong. 11:34:58 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-b16becba61b56f73) joined #forth 11:35:01 Aside from writing it in chunks that are too large in between interactive testing, and not having automated tests. 11:39:35 But I recognize there may be other things wrong with it too that aren't affecting the stupid bug rate. 11:40:03 And maybe the source of the stupid bug rate isn't reflected in the resulting code, but I doubt it. 11:40:18 --- part: edrx left #forth 11:46:08 --- quit: proteusguy (Connection timed out) 11:47:03 --- join: proteusguy (n=proteusg@ppp-124.120.223.120.revip2.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 11:48:32 --- nick: crest__ -> Crest 12:51:07 --- quit: gnomon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:04:02 --- quit: forther (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:20:14 --- join: forther (n=forther@c-67-180-150-67.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 13:30:36 --- join: doublec (n=doublec@202.180.114.137) joined #forth 14:10:27 --- quit: forther (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:30:43 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 15:07:42 --- join: Quartus__ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.2) joined #forth 15:09:26 --- join: crest_ (n=crest@p5489FD87.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 15:13:50 --- join: forther (n=forther@c-67-180-150-67.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 15:17:25 --- quit: Crest (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:30:33 --- join: Quartus___ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.2) joined #forth 15:47:24 --- quit: Quartus__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:50:24 --- quit: Quartus___ ("used jmIrc") 15:53:34 --- quit: crest_ (Remote closed the connection) 15:57:02 --- join: timlarson__ (n=timlarso@user-12l37rb.cable.mindspring.com) joined #forth 16:29:31 Hey. 16:30:54 Hi! :D 16:34:08 What's going on Quartus? 16:34:17 Not too much. You? 16:34:31 Delicious turkey. 16:34:48 I'm in Canada. 16:35:20 What part? 16:35:23 Toronto. 16:35:29 Ah, I am not far. 16:35:33 Thanksgiving is not the same day up here. 16:35:36 I am north of Detroit. 16:35:44 I know, but you asked what was up with me. 16:35:48 And turkey is new with me. 16:35:49 :) 16:46:45 --- nick: timlarson__ -> timlarson 16:59:33 --- quit: forther (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:30:37 --- join: edrx (i=edrx@189.25.47.76) joined #forth 17:53:45 --- quit: Quartus () 18:34:44 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 18:34:44 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 18:56:41 hi tathi 19:00:52 am looking for style feedback on http://pobox.com/~kragen/tmp/invertedindex.fs.html 19:01:18 in case you have any suggestions on how to write better Forth 19:01:33 --- part: edrx left #forth 19:24:03 --- quit: KipIngram (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:34:46 --- join: doublec_ (n=doublec@202.180.114.137) joined #forth 19:35:05 --- quit: doublec (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 19:39:28 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM001947482b20.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 19:39:28 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 19:51:02 hi Quartus. 19:51:07 am looking for style feedback on http://pobox.com/~kragen/tmp/invertedindex.fs.html 19:51:41 It's still not done, but maybe it's complete enough to give useful feedback on. 19:56:11 I'm sorry it's so long. 19:59:32 Yeah, I sort of looked at it... 20:01:21 Not enough to have any really concrete suggestions 20:01:44 You could possibly use PARSE-WORD instead of rolling your own parsing thing... 20:02:00 thanks! 20:02:37 how do you get parse-word not to include punctuation in the word? 20:03:02 oh...you don't want punctuation. Right. 20:03:28 hmm. I guess you probably do need your own. 20:03:51 --- quit: doublec_ () 20:04:09 UM/MOD is (I think) the only standard word which gives an unsigned mod... 20:04:25 thanks! 20:04:37 The main thing I'm struggling with is that writing this code is going very slowly, because I keep writing stupid bugs and then taking forever to track them down. 20:04:52 Mismatched stack effects, pointer arithmetic bugs, and so on. 20:05:04 To a much greater extent than I'm used to in C or assembly. 20:05:11 At least, more per line. 20:06:01 --- quit: timlarson (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:06:28 Yeah...I tend to have trouble with those sort of bugs in string manipulation code like this 20:06:37 Still haven't come up with an elegant way to do it 20:06:43 because you need to have more things than usual on the stack? 20:07:58 Yeah. I always feel like I should be able to do it with less stack manipulation somehow. 20:08:31 I'm also finding that I'm spending a long time figuring out how to do stack manipulations, but I am guessing that eventually I'll get better at that. 20:09:14 That does seem to take a while. 20:09:32 Quartus would probably have better suggestions, whenever he gets around to noticing. 20:09:57 Yeah, he was the one who originally volunteered. But that was a few days ago --- it's going quite slowly. 20:10:04 Oh; also it might be useful to use structure words for your structures. 20:10:12 are there structure words in ANS? 20:10:44 http://forth200x.org/structures.html for instance 20:11:10 Gforth has a structures wordset but I kind of want to stick to ANS 20:11:10 ANS doesn't. They're easy enough to implement that people often do their own thing. 20:11:32 Well, maybe I could include some in the program, then. 20:11:56 Sure. The forth200x proposal has a reference implementation in standard forth. 20:12:08 I want to stick to ANS because I expect gforth to run too slowly to be useful. 20:13:14 So at least being in the common subset of bigforth and gforth... I guess I haven't checked out bigforth's overlap with gforth. 20:16:22 I think gforth comes with an ANS-compatible version of their structure words, but you probably don't need the alignment stuff. 20:17:41 yeah, I can avoid the need for the alignment stuff 20:34:01 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 21:00:39 --- join: doublec (n=doublec@202-74-223-243.ue.woosh.co.nz) joined #forth 21:04:19 --- quit: Quartus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:04:28 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM001947482b20.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 21:04:28 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 21:27:26 hi Quartus 21:27:38 Hi. 21:28:06 did you see earlier conversation? 21:28:08 --- quit: doublec () 21:28:22 I just did; I have not reviewed your code yet. I will as soon as I'm able. 21:28:37 It may be a while. 21:28:44 OK --- whatever comments you have time to give will be much appreciated 21:29:42 it's taking me a lot longer than I expected to write, and resulting in a larger program, although that's probably predictable 21:31:51 --- join: timlarson (n=timlarso@user-12l37rb.cable.mindspring.com) joined #forth 22:17:33 --- join: doublec (n=doublec@203.96.88.109) joined #forth 22:23:30 --- quit: doublec (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23:35:44 --- join: Quartus__ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.2) joined #forth 23:52:32 --- join: Crest (n=crest@p5489BFDF.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/07.11.22