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01:46:36 <JasonWoof> argv @ @ count type forthDBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=unix:abstract=/tmp/dbus-FjObtDRmEC,guid=4270d20817b99a353dc1ee004736888a ok
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01:50:01 <JasonWoof> ayrnieu: cat <files> | sed -e "s/\t/    /g"
01:51:51 <JasonWoof> or in vim:  :%s/^I/    /g
01:52:06 <JasonWoof> (vim displays ^I in blue when you press tab
01:57:30 <ayrnieu> JasonWoof - I know how to do that with sed, but I preferred to do it in-place and don't want to deal with sed/perl's mechanism for in-place edits; I know how to do it with vi, but I have many files.
01:58:04 <JasonWoof> "replace" cmdline utility that comes with mysql is fantastic
01:58:10 <ayrnieu> JasonWoof - and the Forth you've shown doesn't answer my annoyance.
01:58:26 <JasonWoof> oh, re argv... still haven't figured out how it works... but when I put this in a script:
01:58:30 <JasonWoof> argv @ @ count type
01:58:48 <JasonWoof> (with a #! /usr/bin/gforth at the top) and run it: ./foo.fs
01:59:00 <JasonWoof> I get this:  usr/bin/gforth./foo.fsDBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRES
01:59:43 <JasonWoof> dunno how you're supposed to access that, but it does have "./foo.fs" in the middle, which is what I'd expect to find in arg0
02:00:14 <ayrnieu> a '#! /usr/bin/env gforth' script gets called as 'gforth some-file'; gforth loads that file, the script, and removes some-file from argv before evaluating it; that script would like to say "usage: ./detab" or "usage: detab" or whatever, but cannot.
02:00:42 <JasonWoof> how are you supposed to use argv?
02:01:14 <JasonWoof> the string you're looking for is there, I just don't know the memory structure that argv is returning
02:01:15 <ayrnieu> you're supposed to access that with '1 arg'; gforth does extra work to stomp on this usage.
02:01:23 <JasonWoof> oh
02:01:29 <JasonWoof> so you have to use the undocumented "argv" approach
02:02:33 <ayrnieu> well, the documentation said that gforth alters argv directly.
02:03:08 <JasonWoof> what version of gforth do you have?
02:03:16 <JasonWoof> for "1 arg type" I get "./foo.fs"
02:03:23 <JasonWoof> 0 arg gives me /usr/bin/gforth
02:03:57 <JasonWoof> I've got 
02:04:00 <JasonWoof> gforth 0.6.2
02:04:42 <ayrnieu> weird.  You're right: it's still in argv (I thought this might be a new feature)
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02:05:16 <ayrnieu> I have the latest snapshot: 0.6.9-20070604
02:05:31 <JasonWoof> pretty annoying that it puts the interpreter path as arg0
02:05:50 <ayrnieu> '1 arg' gives me 0 0
02:06:01 <ayrnieu> well, that's normal.
02:06:21 <JasonWoof> running interactive?
02:07:05 <JasonWoof> woh, that's weird
02:07:39 <JasonWoof> if I run gforth interactively (just typing "gforth" on the cmdline) and do "1 arg" I get a segfault
02:07:45 <JasonWoof> not 0 0
02:07:51 <ayrnieu> it's a misfeature, at least for this narrow purpose of providing a proper usage
02:08:29 <ayrnieu> that's also normal :-)
02:08:41 <JasonWoof> I think you've gotta run your script as ./foo.fs for argv to make sense
02:08:56 <JasonWoof> or put it in your path or whatnot
02:09:32 <ayrnieu> so ARG carefully returns 0 0 now, and gforth now alters... something, so that 1 arg will show the first argument to the script and not the script or any other argument processed by gfth.
02:10:10 <ayrnieu> both of these are generally good things.
02:10:57 <ayrnieu> maybe this is appropriately a fencepost error :-)  gforth should remove the argument after full processing, and not before.
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02:22:17 <JasonWoof> ARG works dfferently in 0.6.9?
02:22:36 <JasonWoof> maybe there's a good reason why he's reluctant to release it
02:29:21 <ayrnieu> does a very fast way exist, to create files of N ssize?  On BSD ffs?
02:34:44 <JasonWoof> dunno. ask in #freebsd
02:37:27 <ayrnieu> ah, ow, it is almost painfully obvious.
02:42:01 <ayrnieu> s" swap" w/o open-file throw constant sf  512 1024 * 1024 * s>d sf reposition-file throw  here 0 c, 1 sf write-file throw  sf close-file throw  bye
02:43:13 <ayrnieu> voila, 512 MB file.  FS-dependent, but even one with sparse files should adapt this to use by a VM.
02:43:25 <ayrnieu> by virtual memory as a swapfile, I mean.
02:45:25 <ayrnieu> I feel pretty stupid about all these years of using 'dd', now.  Unix is   hard.
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03:03:08 <JasonWoof> : kb 1024 * ;
03:03:18 <JasonWoof> : mb kb kb ;
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03:38:12 <LOOP-HOG> hi
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03:40:03 <LOOP-HOG> anybody up for a chat?
03:41:35 * Robert returns.
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04:52:38 <schemelab> Hi everybody
04:52:44 <Robert> Hi
04:52:49 <schemelab> Deformative: hi
04:52:51 <schemelab> hi Robert
04:53:33 <schemelab> I just realized how RPN maps naturally to English expressions of basic mathematics and wrote it up - http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.forth/browse_thread/thread/2d941286020e5012/63f12ebb317eaaa8#63f12ebb317eaaa8
04:55:40 <Robert> English is pretty flexible.
04:57:01 <schemelab> ambiguous too
04:57:25 <Robert> Too ambiguous.
06:00:59 <Deformative> o/
06:01:19 <schemelab> hi Deformative
06:01:25 <Deformative> Hi.
06:01:34 <schemelab> Forth has caught my interest recently too
06:01:56 <Deformative> :D
06:02:58 <Deformative> D is next. :P
06:03:05 <schemelab> It has decent performance in the shootout - http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=all
06:03:34 <Deformative> It does.
06:03:39 <Deformative> Not quite as high as D.
06:03:50 <Deformative> But it is also interpereted.
06:04:07 <Deformative> So that changes things a bit.
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09:29:31 <gavino1> morning all
09:29:49 <Deformative> o/
09:30:03 <gavino1>  what does that mean def?
09:30:16 <Deformative> It is waving.
09:30:18 <Deformative> o = head
09:30:22 <Deformative>  / = arm
09:30:26 <Deformative> o/ = waving
09:30:26 <gavino1> I have heard about D from my java guru buddy he says it has mnay interesting properties.
09:30:30 <gavino1> lol
09:30:33 <gavino1> funny
09:30:41 <gavino1> many-
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09:31:55 <Deformative> D is awesome. :)
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09:39:44 <linxu> where is slava
09:39:58 <linxu> he taking the day off?
09:44:59 <linxu> deformative what would you use D for?
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10:08:52 <Deformative> linxu: Well, everything that doesn't require a shell.
10:09:15 <Deformative> And even if I needed a shell, I would just use D to write a shell for like, forth or something.
10:13:06 <Bushmill1> istn't that a bit of a contradiction?
10:13:45 <Bushmill1> on the one hand, you'd use D for everything that doesn't require a shell, but on the other hand, you would just use D to write one?
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10:18:00 <Deformative> Bushmills: Indded.
10:18:02 <Deformative> Indeed*
10:18:03 <Deformative> :P
10:18:07 <Deformative> I use D for everything.
10:18:08 <Deformative> :D
10:19:28 <Quartus> do you actually write code, Deformative?  I got the impression you're just a dilettante, glancing briefly at the surface features of several languages
10:20:50 <Deformative> No, I program pretty exclusively in D, and I am making an interpreter, so I am just glancing at languages to try to decide on a structure for it.
10:21:08 <Quartus> you're writing a new language, using D to do it?
10:21:37 <Deformative> Well, I don't intend for it to be a language, but yes.
10:21:48 <Quartus> An interpreter interprets some language.
10:21:59 <Deformative> That's why.
10:22:13 <Bushmills> hmm.. in the wider sense of interpreter, an emulator is also one
10:22:15 <Quartus> Why not interpret D, if it's your language of choice?
10:22:48 <Deformative> I just wanted a way to use functions from my D code at runtime, and I figured the best way to do that is an interpreter, but D is not made to be interpreted, so I am making a language that is, that can use D.
10:22:51 <Deformative> Make sense?
10:23:05 <Quartus> Is it specifically designed not to be interpreted?
10:23:16 <Bushmills> Deformati so, you essentially need a sort of shel
10:23:18 <Bushmills> shell
10:23:23 <Bushmills> hehe
10:23:32 <Deformative> Bushmills: EXACTLY 
10:23:33 <Deformative> :)
10:23:42 <Bushmills> doesn't sound difficult
10:23:47 <Deformative> It isn't.
10:23:56 <Quartus> Surely there's some subset of D that would be workable in interpreted form
10:24:10 <Deformative> Sure, but that takes the fun out of it.
10:24:27 <Quartus> I fail to see why.
10:24:35 <Deformative> Well, dynamic typing for one.
10:24:44 <Deformative> D is static typed with the auto keyword.
10:25:11 <Bushmills> but then you can ignore typing completely to start with. 
10:25:11 <Deformative> Shells usually have dynamic typing.
10:26:47 <Bushmills> or do you think of type conversion, like casting?
10:26:48 <Quartus> Shells are just interfaces, usually text based.  If by 'shell' you mean the programming languages inside csh, or bash...?
10:27:43 <Bushmills> (i refer to "typing" as a compiler means to refuse to do what the programmer asks it to do)
10:28:38 <Deformative> Well, I just want my shell to be simpler than D itself,  and at the same time I want to learn something, I am learning about other styles than just D.
10:28:57 <Deformative> Bushmills: operators handle typing.
10:29:09 <Deformative> So casting is not needed.
10:29:38 <Bushmills> then leaving typing out kills two flies at once: first it won't take the fun out, and secondly it simplifies the code
10:29:39 <iano> D is basically an improved C++, with better syntax, semantics, and standard libraries
10:30:05 <Deformative> iano: Nested functions, delegates, garbage collection
10:30:28 <iano> D does quite well on benchmarks, too
10:30:33 <Quartus> Your use of 'shell' throws me off. Seems to me that what you're actually wanting to make is an intepreted language, with, I'm guessing, FFI to your compiled D functions.
10:30:45 <Bushmills> yes, sort of java, C++ and C merge, trying to retain those features which are deemed "best" 
10:31:25 <Deformative> Quartus,  Well, I see the usefulness of forth, scheme, other languages, but they do not interface well with D.
10:31:35 <Quartus> Why?
10:31:48 <Deformative> Quartus because they are made to interact with C?
10:31:52 <Quartus> Does D present special challenges in terms of FFI?
10:32:35 <Deformative> I don't know.
10:33:02 <Deformative> Dude, it is just something to do, I am not making a big deal about my interpreter, just having fun with it.
10:33:07 <Quartus> Forth, Scheme -- neither is made to interact with C.  A given implementation may provide FFI facilities; I would expect those to apply equally well to D functions, but I don't know either.  I thought you would.
10:33:44 <Deformative> Quartus  well, they use the C abi, right? Well D has objects, that already presents problems.
10:33:58 <Deformative> D has nested functions, pointers to methods and nested functions.
10:34:01 <Quartus> No, Forth as a language, Scheme as a language -- have no relevance to the C abi.
10:34:23 <Deformative> Alright, well, how would they interface with a C library?
10:34:37 <Bushmills> usually you'd write some interfacing code
10:34:39 <Quartus> A specific implementation of, say, Forth, may provide FFI facilities.
10:35:01 <Deformative> Would not work so well trying to use a D library.
10:35:11 <Quartus> But you haven't tried?
10:35:23 <Deformative> Nope. :D
10:35:26 <Quartus> Ok.
10:35:51 <Deformative> It doesn't make sense, I understand that, but i am just having fun with it.
10:35:57 <Bushmills> Deformative: why? if D can call its lib, surely another lang should allow to calls D libs, with functionally equivalent code
10:36:16 <Bushmills> in that respect, Forth supports C just as it supports D interfacing ...
10:36:20 <Deformative> Bushmills: Sure, but you would probably need to use C as a proxy.
10:36:22 <Deformative> And that is no fun.
10:36:27 <Quartus> Fun is fine; but if you're going to make declarations of what will, and what won't, work -- you should know.
10:36:46 <Bushmills> Deformative: no,. knowing the binary layout of the libraries is enough
10:37:07 <Deformative> Bushmills: Sure.
10:37:18 <Deformative> Less fun though.
10:37:31 <Bushmills> assuming the structure of D libs is known, the problem presents itself similarily
10:37:54 <Quartus> I would think building an interface to D libraries from an interpreter of your own design would involve exactly the same effort as building that interface from Forth.
10:38:14 <Deformative> Quartus, it would.
10:38:26 <Quartus> So an identical amount of 'fun'.
10:38:31 <Quartus> And something that might be of broader use.
10:38:48 <Deformative> Quartus, But with this, I can have D operators directly builtinto the language.
10:39:01 <Quartus> And you believe you could not do this from Forth?
10:39:27 <Bushmills> i don't think he said, or gave reason to believe that he does so
10:39:34 <Quartus> I'm asking.
10:40:01 <Deformative> I could do it in forth, but forth doesn't perfectly fit what i want.
10:40:04 * Deformative shrugs.
10:40:20 <Deformative> I am not doing this for a reason, just fun and to learn.
10:40:56 <Bushmills> Deformative: once busy interfacing libs, you might as well connect to C libs?
10:41:08 <Bushmills> gives your interpreter some additional bite
10:41:30 <Deformative> :D
10:42:23 <Deformative> Well, for now I just have all operators builtin,  but yeah.
10:42:56 <Bushmills> operators don't usually come from the lib, but library functions do.
10:43:05 <Bushmills> i suppose that's true for D too
10:43:31 <gavino1> zzz
10:43:41 * Deformative uses function and operator interchangeably 
10:44:04 <gavino1> dns nis and hsots file all buggered hre at work, ah fnu fun fun
10:46:22 <Deformative> So uh, I guess you got me, looks like I am making a language because I want to, not out of need, I could be using an existing interpreter if I really wanted to.
10:46:29 <Deformative> But I dunno, no interpreter quite fits.
10:47:30 <Quartus__> how does Forth not fit?
10:48:03 <Deformative> Well.
10:48:29 <Deformative> I am not making stack-oriented the default.
10:48:40 <Bushmills> probably depending on which kind of machines and environment one targets
10:48:48 <Deformative> But I am making it a module that can be loaded.
10:49:07 <Bushmills> Deformative: most languages, incl C and D are stack oriented
10:49:18 <Bushmills> Deformative: only, the compiler tends to hide that fact from you
10:49:24 <Deformative> Lisp.
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10:50:51 <Quartus__> forth isn't "stack oriented". It uses a two-stack setup for parameter passing and the storage of temporaries.
10:51:15 <Bushmills> you could call it "stack centric"?
10:51:36 <Quartus__> I wouldn't say that either.
10:51:42 <Deformative> Geeze, fun sucking.
10:51:55 <Deformative> I am just trying to have fun with a shell, and you are asking me why.
10:51:56 <Deformative> :D
10:52:06 <Bushmills> not me.
10:52:11 * Robert would say it's ec-centric. *giggles*
10:52:17 <Bushmills> i'm not challenging anybodies intentions
10:52:19 <Quartus__> no, I'm challenging your erroneous assertions.
10:52:43 <Bushmills> hi rob_ert
10:52:46 <Bushmills> :)
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10:52:52 <Robert> Hi, Bushmills.
10:53:10 <Robert> ex-Speuler?
10:53:14 <Bushmills> si
10:53:30 <Bushmills> the underscore gave me away
10:53:32 <Deformative> Quartus I apologize for making stupid statements then.
10:53:38 <Deformative> There is just nothing better to do.
10:53:44 <Robert> Bushmills: Actually it was your username.
10:53:51 <Bushmills> ah
10:53:55 <Deformative> And I am trying to deny that or something.
10:53:56 * Deformative shrugs.
10:53:58 <Quartus__> I'd rather you be on-track, than apologetic.
10:55:23 <Deformative> Well, I am making a language because i feel there is something I can learn from doing it, and I am looking at other languages for inspiration.
10:55:28 <Deformative> Is that more on-track?
10:56:00 <Bushmills> well, learning by doing is defiitely commendable
10:56:34 <Deformative> :)
10:56:47 <Quartus__> I mean, on-track with the assertions you're making.  Which can only help you reach your targets, as a bonus.
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10:59:31 <Bushmills> i suppose, quartus, the the misconceptions you mention are the ones like "forth made to interface with C" and such?
11:00:02 <Quartus__> and such. Forth is a terrific platform for language design and experimentation.
11:00:24 <Bushmills> and feature stealing :)
11:00:27 <Bushmills> hehe
11:00:46 <Quartus__> not sure what you mean.
11:01:24 <Bushmills> the possibility to intergrate interesting characteristics of other languages
11:01:29 <Bushmills> integrate
11:02:11 <Quartus__> sure. But I'm really referring to language design.  Syntax, too; parsers are easy.
11:02:27 <Bushmills> though i'm not thinking of syntax
11:02:55 <Quartus__> to dismiss Forth, for whatever reason, as 'stack-based' is to be entirely missing the picture.
11:03:46 <Bushmills> emulating syntax i'm not a fan of, as it takes away consistency
11:04:16 <Quartus__> if it's a new language, it can be entirely consistent within itself.
11:04:56 <Bushmills> true. but often you may simply want to add aspects of that language to your forth
11:05:15 <Quartus__> sure. Different thing.
11:06:40 <gavino1> squeak is interesting.....
11:06:56 <Bushmills> smalltalk?
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11:07:58 <gavino1> smalltalk 80 implementation
11:07:59 <Quartus__> I can't think of an easier or better tool than Forth for language design and experimentation.
11:08:06 <Bushmills> afaik, squeak is to smalltalk what scheme is to lisp
11:08:12 <gavino1> can message passing style find its way into forth?
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11:08:32 <gavino1> more liek what clisp is to lisp
11:08:43 <gavino1> an implementation
11:08:57 <Quartus__> gavino, do you know what 'message passing' is?
11:08:57 <Bushmills> ok. i thought it was a subset
11:10:03 <Bushmills> sort of smalltalk-light
11:12:55 <Quartus__> gavino?
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11:42:42 <linxu> sorry
11:42:47 <linxu> grabebd free pizza at work here
11:43:33 <linxu> well I cheated
11:43:42 <linxu> I just looked it up on wikipedia
11:43:55 <linxu> massage passing is passing messages!
11:45:34 <linxu> but to answer your question I only have a vague idea of what message passing is in reality or in implementation.
11:45:54 <linxu> I would be curious about forth usages of it though..
11:47:07 <Quartus__> ok, well, you did step 1; but you don't know enough about Forth for any answer to be meaningful to you.
11:48:42 <Quartus__> also, there are multiple meanings for 'message passing'. 
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11:51:02 <Quartus__> 3 5 +
11:51:35 <Quartus__> 3 and 5 are messages to +.  Or + is a message to the interpreter to sum the two top stack values.
11:52:31 <Quartus__> or:  3 5 +   is entirely a message.
11:54:30 <linxu> hm
11:58:06 <kc5tja> Or, + is a message to 5, telling it (5) to add 3 to itself.
11:58:11 <kc5tja> That's the Smalltalk interpretation
11:58:58 <kc5tja> As defined in Smalltalk, a message is a request to do something.  As it would be in SMTP, HTTP, etc.
11:59:08 <kc5tja> However, the mechanics are markedly different than, say, using sockets.
11:59:22 <timlarson> maybe we should send the + object a 5 and a 3 message and let it figure out what to do
11:59:28 <kc5tja> Message passing in Smalltalk is implemented (basically, to make a long story short) as an indirect subroutine call.
11:59:37 <linxu> !
11:59:41 <kc5tja> timlarson: Quartus__ already mentioned that scenario.
11:59:48 <linxu> so oo is simply subroutines on a finite data set?
11:59:53 <linxu> ???
11:59:56 <timlarson> yeah, I should read closer
12:00:12 <kc5tja> OO is an anthropomorphization of otherwise procedural code.
12:00:28 <linxu> hm what does anthro--- mean?
12:00:37 <kc5tja> If you've programmed with the POSIX file API (fopen, fclose, fread, fprintf, etc) you've done OO.
12:00:51 <kc5tja> You're basically "telling" a file handle to print some data, to read into a buffer, etc.
12:01:24 <linxu> hm
12:01:29 <linxu> I have used bash for that..
12:01:31 <linxu> :)
12:01:37 <linxu> (or have I?)
12:01:44 <kc5tja> http://www.reasoned.org/glossary.htm
12:01:52 <kc5tja> See entry for anthropomorphism.
12:02:33 <linxu> ah
12:03:24 <linxu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeAdryYZ7ak
12:03:39 <linxu> interesting, unhappily, no movies for forth..
12:03:56 <kc5tja> timlarson: What you and Quartus__ described in that particular scenario is dataflow programming, which is what spreadsheets implement.
12:04:40 <timlarson> true
12:04:43 <linxu> hmmm
12:04:44 <kc5tja> It turns out that Forth and other concatenative languages excel at dataflow.
12:05:09 <kc5tja> Which is perhaps why so many have observed Forth to be so close to functional programming when "done right."
12:05:17 <kc5tja> s/Forth/Forth programming/
12:05:28 <linxu> hm
12:06:50 <schemelab> is there a good package for processing arrays of arbitrary dimension in Forth?
12:07:47 <kc5tja> I don't know what this package provides, but have you researched the Forth Scientific Library?
12:08:11 <schemelab> have not heard of it... i iwill check on it now
12:08:24 <kc5tja> That would be the only thing I could think of off hand.
12:08:41 <kc5tja> Well, I must be going.  I have an article to write, and only one day before the submission deadline.  :D
12:08:48 <Robert> Good luck.
12:09:04 <kc5tja> Thanks.  :)
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12:12:18 <linxu> hm
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12:28:42 <iano> I found one YouTube movie about getting to an iMac Open Firmware prompt
12:29:55 <iano> Chuck Moore's presentations are much higher quality
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12:37:55 <linxu> any they  online anywhere?
12:37:59 <linxu> in vid form?
12:38:01 <linxu> .....
12:40:18 <linxu> so forth also is a programmible programming language, like lisp
12:40:26 <linxu> as q said
12:40:30 <linxu> I love it
12:41:43 <Quartus__> do something with it.
12:47:08 <iano> linxu: they were at ultratechnoloy, but Jeff Fox now sells them on DVD
12:47:25 <iano> http://www.ultratechnology.com/
12:47:55 <iano> oh, they are there.  Look under "Streaming Videos"
12:51:31 <linxu> sweet
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13:58:07 <linxu> wow so moore is building his own chip, with some forth in hardware?
13:58:30 <iano> yes
13:59:46 <Bushmills> since about 20 years
14:00:12 <iano> http://www.intellasys.net/index.php
14:08:13 <linxu> wow lawsuits
14:08:21 <linxu> in 2004 chat
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14:12:09 <Quartus> almost every company is involved in lawsuits at some point
14:13:13 <linxu> the legal system bugs me
14:14:04 <linxu> wow he got 64M flash drive to work by using 1 meg to emulate fat32
14:14:27 <Quartus> I got mine to work by putting it in the slot on the side of the machine.
14:15:25 <linxu> hes dealing with colorforth I think
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14:40:36 <Quartus> Hi tathi.
14:44:13 <linxu> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8424619312029020205
14:44:18 <linxu> this is awesome
14:44:29 <Quartus> What is it?
14:44:52 <linxu> talk by fox a forth linda guy 
14:45:07 <linxu> and talk about multi tasking is same as multi processing equivalence
14:45:16 <linxu> PVM
14:45:19 <linxu> wow
14:45:47 <Quartus> I often think 'wow' when hearing what Fox has to say, but I suspect it's for different reasons than yours
14:46:04 <linxu> heh
14:46:15 <linxu> ....what are your reasons
14:46:16 <linxu> ?
14:46:38 <Quartus> He usually seems paranoid, misinformed, and delusional to me.  
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14:47:34 <linxu> global variables vs local
14:47:40 <linxu> very interesting
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14:51:21 <linxu> he seems to have a few vids here on the ultratechnology site
14:52:19 <linxu> did he piss you off or something?
14:52:32 <Quartus> There are few people he hasn't.
14:52:55 * Robert carefully raises his hand.
14:53:39 <linxu> heh
14:53:43 <linxu> yikes
14:56:00 <tathi> hi Quartus 
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15:48:19 <Quartus> what's new with you, tathi?
16:03:52 <linxu> wow this video is hurting my brain
16:04:02 <linxu> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7419632277247226285
16:07:46 <linxu> chuck seems to disliek the ansi forth
16:07:53 <linxu> but that seems to be the one I am learning....
16:07:55 <linxu> ouch
16:09:41 <Quartus> perhaps you'd prefer his own; undocumented, unsupported, and specific to whatever he's working on now, without any consideration for general-purpose use.
16:14:21 <Quartus> Also note that the Intellisys demo, the one they themselves distributed, is written in ANSI Standard Forth, and runs under Gforth.
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16:17:12 <linxu> hm
16:17:28 <linxu> if something si good but no doc it can't be used by me
16:17:41 <linxu> kind of like a bomb with no instruction set
16:19:17 <Quartus> So far he's complaining that WORD and STATE and a couple of others are in CORE; he thinks they should be optional.  He thinks DOUBLE words should go, because the hardware he uses is at least 32-bit, so why bother.  
16:21:30 <linxu> are you a gforth dev quartus?
16:21:46 <Quartus> I don't have anything to do with the creation of Gforth.
16:21:57 <linxu> how about developemnt
16:21:59 <linxu> ment
16:22:06 <Quartus> I use it.
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16:31:03 <kc5tja> Double-precision words on a 32-bit architecture is kind of nonsensical.  But, that's not why they're in CORE.  I agree that they should be removed, *BUT*, there's too many programs out there that use the double-precision words as a means of manipulating two-celled data structures.
16:31:13 <kc5tja> When viewed in that particular light, then of course, they should remain.
16:31:22 <kc5tja> And that's precisely how ANSI folks see it too.
16:33:37 <iano> kc5tja: you said you were writing an article? about what?
16:34:47 <kc5tja> My OpenAX.25 project and its (lack of) progress.
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