00:00:00 --- log: started forth/07.11.05
00:02:45 --- quit: saon_top ("leaving")
00:12:20 --- join: H4n1 (n=Hans@p57A0F738.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth
00:30:41 --- quit: H4ns (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:14:38 --- quit: H4n1 (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:15:59 --- quit: Off_Namuh81 ("using sirc version 2.211")
01:20:05 --- join: saon (n=saon@207.138.42.211) joined #forth
01:20:21 --- join: H4ns (n=Hans@p57BBB831.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth
01:27:25 --- join: Off_Namuh (i=GPS@gateway/tor/x-72e98401fab7f767) joined #forth
02:39:53 --- join: ziggurat (n=ziggurat@pool-71-164-227-62.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth
02:43:06 --- quit: ziggurat (Client Quit)
02:43:18 --- join: savetheWorld (n=Lester@about/linux/staff/savetheWorld) joined #forth
02:43:31 --- part: savetheWorld left #forth
02:55:38 --- quit: rhythmicmayhem (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:05:25 <ayrnieu> http://paste.lisp.org/display/50306 <-- this works well enough for the selection of Chinese characters, but it left/right movement is slow.  A better version needs precalculation, maybe a pass that builds the output string as " \e[00mHZHZ \e[00mHZHZ" where it edits cyan<->null in-place, maybe only one print of the full list of characters, with only the highlighted character redisplayed.
03:05:25 <ayrnieu> Maybe I should abandon interactive linear selection entirely: print out a 2x2 table and then say,  oh, I want character B4.
03:13:21 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:13:27 --- join: arke_ (n=arke@p54A7DC2F.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth
03:13:39 --- nick: arke_ -> arke
03:13:59 --- quit: wossname (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:14:44 <ayrnieu> well, I think the interaction charming, so I'll just make it faster.
04:06:05 --- join: edrx (i=edrx@189.25.166.112) joined #forth
04:06:30 --- quit: doublec ()
04:31:10 --- quit: TreyB (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:35:07 --- join: TreyB (n=trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth
04:59:53 --- join: wossname (n=w@CPE00195b252b77-CM001a666a6e78.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth
05:07:11 --- quit: saon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:15:46 --- quit: ayrnieu (Connection timed out)
05:38:39 --- join: timlarson_ (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #forth
06:03:09 --- quit: edrx (Remote closed the connection)
06:32:24 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection)
07:08:39 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@c-75-70-5-69.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth
07:17:49 --- quit: wossname (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
07:38:49 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-022e95471aa961b0) joined #forth
07:58:31 --- quit: arke (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- *I* use it, so it must be good!")
08:08:20 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection)
08:11:01 --- join: timlarson__ (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #forth
08:16:06 --- quit: timlarson_ (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
08:16:13 --- join: timlarson_ (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #forth
08:30:31 --- quit: timlarson_ (Connection timed out)
08:32:00 --- join: madwork_ (n=foo@204.138.110.15) joined #forth
08:32:29 --- quit: madwork (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
08:49:39 --- nick: madwork_ -> ghost
08:49:47 --- nick: ghost -> madwork
08:51:18 --- quit: Al2O3 (Remote closed the connection)
08:51:48 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@c-75-70-5-69.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth
09:03:38 --- join: wossname (n=w@CPE00195b252b77-CM001a666a6e78.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth
09:42:10 --- join: edrx (i=edrx@189.25.131.174) joined #forth
09:56:43 --- join: arke (n=arke@p54A7DC2F.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth
09:56:43 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke
09:58:33 --- quit: arke (Client Quit)
09:58:43 --- join: arke (n=arke@p54A7DC2F.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth
09:58:43 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke
10:05:45 --- quit: H4ns (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:09:08 <happy_guy> gentlemen good morning
10:09:17 <happy_guy> <--celebrating patriots win still
10:18:05 --- quit: Al2O3 ("Eggplant & SenseTalk: Driving Success Through Automation")
10:31:07 --- join: gnomon (n=gnomon@CPE0050eb372bdb-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth
10:53:19 --- join: forther (n=forther@207.47.34.100.static.nextweb.net) joined #forth
11:21:56 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-1cce6e150a685895) joined #forth
11:41:06 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection)
11:58:56 --- quit: Off_Namuh (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
12:05:40 --- join: mark4 (n=mark4@ip70-162-227-19.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #forth
12:05:43 --- nick: mark4 -> I440r
12:14:22 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-6077730034029aff) joined #forth
12:32:10 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection)
12:32:50 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-03936b52c9a85d10) joined #forth
12:32:52 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection)
12:34:57 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-2d695a2b6a119681) joined #forth
12:43:38 --- join: benny91 (n=benny@p5486C572.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth
12:44:35 --- part: benny91 left #forth
12:54:22 --- join: H4ns (n=Hans@p57A0F738.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth
13:01:22 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth
13:01:23 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi
13:07:41 --- join: Off_Namuh (i=GPS@gateway/tor/x-c2bda41a60313d9d) joined #forth
13:12:03 --- join: iccy (n=iccy@kekeke.org) joined #forth
13:12:11 --- part: iccy left #forth
13:17:34 --- join: doublec (n=doublec@202.180.114.137) joined #forth
13:20:57 --- join: madwork_ (n=foo@204.138.110.15) joined #forth
13:21:09 --- quit: madwork (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:28:23 --- quit: timlarson__ ("Leaving")
13:39:47 --- quit: I440r ("Leaving")
14:01:09 <JasonWoof> duh... safari for XP?!
14:02:29 <JasonWoof> weird
14:02:40 <JasonWoof> cool though I guess
14:07:26 <arke> that's been out for a while
14:07:38 <arke> it can be a bit buggy tohugh
14:08:01 --- quit: Raystm2 (Connection timed out)
14:09:39 --- join: arcus (n=Miranda@130.195.209.73) joined #forth
14:12:03 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection)
14:14:31 --- quit: Off_Namuh (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:19:48 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-147-206.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth
14:20:19 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Nick collision from services.)
14:20:25 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42
14:25:50 --- join: Off_Namuh (i=GPS@gateway/tor/x-deef22c9c70196b7) joined #forth
14:26:28 <JasonWoof> WTF? INGDirect (where I have a bank account) is forcing me to register 5 "security questions" so it can be absolutely sure I'm me
14:26:41 <JasonWoof> they lit me pick from 8 different questions, and put some inswers in
14:26:52 <JasonWoof> trouble is, they want me to pick 5 of them
14:27:04 <JasonWoof> I don't know the bloody answers to 5 of them
14:27:14 <JasonWoof> some don't make sense
14:27:24 <JasonWoof> guess I could do the math and figure out what year my parents were born
14:27:46 <JasonWoof> one I don't know how to spell, and one or two are likely to change before I log in again
14:28:28 <JasonWoof> the funniest one is "what was your highschool mascot?"
14:28:49 <kc5tja> Yeah, I just answered "We didn't have a mascot, moron." for that one.
14:29:04 <kc5tja> Of course, if I'm ever asked that, I had better remember the "moron" bit, or else I'm screwed.  :)
14:29:07 <JasonWoof> I was homeschooled for high school
14:29:19 <JasonWoof> right
14:29:39 <JasonWoof> I have a hard time imagining anybody having a highschool mascot
14:29:53 <JasonWoof> and if they did have one, I don't think it's something they'd want to think about
14:30:11 <kc5tja> It must be a west-coast thing, because I can't think of a _single_ school on the east coast that had a mascot.
14:30:16 <kc5tja> (other than colleges of course)
14:32:23 <happy_guy> heh
14:33:01 <happy_guy> I had to do that when I sold stock and then bought too soon, so I was effectively on margin, because their site was not sophisto enough to stop me.
14:35:43 <arcus> mascots for schools? 
14:35:47 <arcus> weird. 
14:38:04 <happy_guy> I found out why 
14:38:20 <happy_guy> I am ahving so much trouble or at least one mroe soruce........this box uses zsh!!!
14:38:24 <happy_guy> lol
14:42:59 <happy_guy> well does forth have a mascot?
14:43:09 <Quartus> no.
14:43:46 <Quartus> Primarily because it's not a collegiate sports team.
14:44:11 <slava> there are other reasons too, of course.
14:44:19 <slava> but they're all minor points in comparison to this.
14:44:21 <Quartus> All corollaries of the first
14:46:43 <arcus> I didn't realise that Linux and FreeBSD were collegiate sports teams. 
14:47:32 <Quartus> Interestingly, both of those cutsie mascots are part of the reason for corporate reluctance to adopt.
14:48:37 <arcus> but cutsie mascots abound in the corporate world! 
14:48:44 <Quartus> Linux and FreeBSD (and a few others) began life very much as collegiate sports teams -- rival groups.
14:48:53 <Quartus> From colleges.
14:48:53 <arcus> there's that cockney lizard for one thing. 
14:49:04 <slava> Quartus: and with jocks and cheerleaders
14:49:11 <Quartus> yup
14:53:22 <tathi> I can think of three programming languages that sort-of have mascots
14:54:04 <tathi> Not that any of them are good examples :)
14:54:37 <Quartus> having an o'reilly cover doesn't count
14:55:05 <tathi> ok, no perl then
14:55:30 <tathi> And Python is named after an animal, and they didn't give it a name AFAIK
14:55:51 <crc> good evening
14:55:52 <tathi> and Java is backed by a corporate marketing division
14:58:21 <arcus> there you go.  Java has a cute little cup of coffee as its mascot, and it hasn't seemed to have put of corporate interest! 
14:58:58 <arcus> I suppose you could argue that it would have had even _more_ corporate mindshare if it had not been for that coffee...
15:00:01 <crc> actually "duke" (http://www.java.com/en/dukeszone/) is the java mascot
15:00:22 <Quartus> hey crc
15:01:06 <crc> hi Quartus 
15:01:08 <Quartus> a logo isn't a mascot, but i think you could indeed successfully argue that the logo was frivolous
15:03:01 <arcus> oh, yeah, I had forgotten about Duke
15:03:48 <arcus> I had _successfully_ forgotten about duke. 
15:03:52 <arcus> thanks crc :-[ 
15:04:00 <crc> np
15:04:32 * slava has nightmares of mid-90's java.sun.com homepage, slowing his computer down to a crawl, first displaying a gray box, and then much later, an animated applet of duke waving his hand
15:05:00 <Quartus> I guess Java eventually nuked'em
15:06:11 <Quartus> Oh, this just in: [18:05] <PoppaVic> fems absolutely never think the same as mels. Ever. Period.
15:06:19 * arcus groans
15:06:41 <JasonWoof> oh god
15:06:58 <JasonWoof> guess I'm not a mel then
15:07:05 <slava> Quartus: that's based on a sample size of 2, his mother whom he lives with, and her mom's friend
15:07:29 <JasonWoof> slava: you don't think PoppaVic considers himself a mel?
15:07:37 <Quartus> I also sense the involvement of wood-alcohol, and a thunderingly large dose of misogyny and arrested adolescence
15:18:55 <happy_guy> python is named after monty python
15:19:06 <happy_guy> they get mad when the snake is brought up
15:20:46 <slava> ( scratchpad ) 33 th nl
15:20:46 <slava> 33rd
15:20:47 <slava> ( scratchpad ) 113 th nl
15:20:47 <slava> 113th
15:20:47 <slava> ( scratchpad ) 123 th nl
15:20:47 <slava> 123rd
15:20:53 <slava> useful word :-)
15:21:12 <JasonWoof> wow
15:21:42 <JasonWoof> I've written something like th, but didn't think of 13th
15:21:46 <slava> haha
15:21:51 <slava> i think its the only exception?
15:22:08 <slava> : th ( n -- str )
15:22:09 <slava>     dup number>string write
15:22:09 <slava>     100 mod dup 20 > [ 10 mod ] when
15:22:09 <slava>     H{ { 1 "st" } { 2 "nd" } { 3 "rd" } } at "th" or write ;
15:22:13 <slava> err stack comment is wrong
15:22:37 <JasonWoof> 11th, 12th
15:22:53 <slava> works
15:22:54 <slava> ( scratchpad ) 11 th nl
15:22:54 <slava> 11th
15:23:00 <slava> look at the logic above
15:23:03 <slava> we take modulo 100
15:23:13 <slava> if its over 20, then the last digit is pronounced like a single digit
15:23:23 <slava> if its under 20, then anything over 10 is 'th'
15:24:51 <JasonWoof> taking me a while to grok your logic/syntax
15:25:03 <slava> H{ { 1 "st" } { 2 "nd" } { 3 "rd" } } at  is a hashtable lookup
15:25:07 <JasonWoof> I got it now
15:25:32 <slava> "th" or means, if the lookup yielded nothing then just use "th"
15:26:11 <JasonWoof> this yeilds "rd":  "rd" "th" or
15:26:20 <slava> yes
15:26:31 <slava> or yields the first non-false input of two
15:26:32 <JasonWoof> interresting
15:26:38 <slava> 1 f or => 1
15:26:42 <slava> f 2 or => 2
15:28:29 <JasonWoof> food time
15:28:31 <JasonWoof> bbl
15:29:09 <slava> if you use t and f its like normal logic
15:29:10 <slava> t f or => t
15:29:12 <slava> t t or => t
15:29:12 <slava> etc
16:30:17 --- quit: wossname (Connection timed out)
16:39:24 --- quit: edrx (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
16:40:44 --- join: edrx (i=edrx@189.25.131.174) joined #forth
16:48:06 --- join: ayrnieu (n=julian@005M17.oasis.mediatti.net) joined #forth
17:37:36 --- join: wossname (n=w@CPE00195b252b77-CM001a666a6e78.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth
17:40:14 --- quit: forther ("Leaving")
17:52:38 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@c-75-70-5-69.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth
17:58:41 --- quit: tathi ("leaving")
18:08:28 --- join: H4n1 (n=Hans@p57A0F738.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth
18:23:13 --- quit: H4ns (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:30:55 --- quit: maht_ ("Leaving")
18:32:13 --- part: edrx left #forth
18:40:45 <JasonWoof> man, I'm glad I didn't do web-design when html 3 was the thing
18:53:43 <kc5tja> HTML 2 ftw!!
19:01:01 <JasonWoof> I don't know what version of HTML I'm looking at, because (suprise suprise) it has no doctype
19:01:06 <JasonWoof> don't think it's any valid version
19:01:29 <JasonWoof> I tried several old versions in the W3C validator, only 12 errors with html 3.2
19:01:37 <JasonWoof> (as opposed to the usual 39)
19:01:58 <JasonWoof> but when you go that old, you're not allowed to use CSS
19:02:03 <JasonWoof> which it does
19:02:09 <JasonWoof> not much... but it does
19:02:31 <JasonWoof> the whole homepage layout is one gigantic table with 28 columns
19:02:38 <JasonWoof> lord knows how many rows
19:03:43 <JasonWoof> only 103 <td>s
19:05:25 <JasonWoof> weird, there's 28 rows
19:05:57 <JasonWoof> so if you ignore the top row that's the 28 spacer tds, that leaves you with a 27x28 grid
19:06:30 <JasonWoof> 27 28 * .     => 756
19:06:49 <JasonWoof> but there's only 75 TDs outside that top row
19:07:24 <JasonWoof> which means that the average TD spans over 10 cells on that 27x28 grid
19:10:51 <arcus> back in those days, webdesign was easy, because HTML couldn't actually do very much :] 
19:12:18 <JasonWoof> heh
19:12:46 <JasonWoof> but you needed to auto-generate your code, because there were no stylesheets
19:13:55 --- join: arke_ (n=arke@p54A7DE18.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth
19:17:04 <arcus> could just be badly written
19:17:26 <arcus> or it could have been written for HTML 3 then subsenquently modified with CSS. 
19:19:30 <JasonWoof> nah, I think they just ran it through htmltidy (because it says so at the top, despite the lack of doctype tag) and put a class ittribute on two tags
19:23:34 --- join: saon (n=saon@207.138.42.211) joined #forth
19:24:08 <arcus> well, it certainly sounds odd. 
19:24:57 <arcus> perhaps it was written for some odd environment where some people are still using Netscape 3 or something? 
19:25:08 <JasonWoof> quite possibly
19:25:18 <JasonWoof> there's a link to the site of the designer
19:25:30 <JasonWoof> and all the screenshots in the portfolio are of internet explorer for mac
19:25:49 <JasonWoof> they stopped making IEmac a looong time ago
19:26:04 <JasonWoof> it's at version 5.0 or 5.5 I forget
19:31:06 --- quit: arke (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:31:06 --- nick: arke_ -> arke
19:43:07 <JasonWoof> it seems that aol does not use passwords on ftp...
19:44:21 <JasonWoof> apparently you just log in annonymously
19:44:39 <JasonWoof> and if you're logged into aol at the same time, then you get write access
19:45:31 <JasonWoof> that strikes me as monumentally stupid
19:46:12 <JasonWoof> all you have to do is have the same IP and know the e-mail address of someone to break their website?
19:47:24 <JasonWoof> so basically if you see someone doing AIM in a cafe, and you know their screen name or aol email, you can change their website
19:48:37 <JasonWoof> or if they have an open wireless network (which I imagine is usually the case for AOLers) you can just sit on the sidewalk in front of their house and break their website
20:00:50 <JasonWoof> ok, new topic
20:01:15 <JasonWoof> is there a p2p network that you can "surf" (like freenode) but that doesn't have all that rediculous overhead to try to be annonymous?
20:06:18 <kc5tja> "Surf?"
20:07:32 <JasonWoof> view page, click link, repeat
20:10:23 <kc5tja> Tor
20:10:36 <kc5tja> It's not exactly P2P, but it is intended for just this purpose.
20:10:46 --- quit: Al2O3 (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
20:10:46 --- quit: timlarson (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
20:10:46 --- quit: Fractal (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
20:15:24 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@c-75-70-5-69.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth
20:15:24 --- join: timlarson (n=timlarso@user-12l37rb.cable.mindspring.com) joined #forth
20:15:24 --- join: Fractal (i=frax@i.got.the.skillz.to.pay.the.billz.org) joined #forth
20:15:54 <ayrnieu> JasonWoof - I believe that p2p webs are all anonymous, like Freenet.
20:16:54 <ayrnieu> the 'ridiculous overhead' is rather the *excuse* for all of this p2p overhead to having an alternative to the web, which already exists.
20:21:49 --- quit: timlarson (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
20:21:49 --- quit: Fractal (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
20:21:49 --- quit: Al2O3 (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
20:27:42 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@c-75-70-5-69.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth
20:27:42 --- join: timlarson (n=timlarso@user-12l37rb.cable.mindspring.com) joined #forth
20:27:42 --- join: Fractal (i=frax@i.got.the.skillz.to.pay.the.billz.org) joined #forth
20:36:10 --- part: doublec left #forth
20:37:39 --- quit: gnomon (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
20:37:39 --- quit: Baughn (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
20:37:39 --- quit: warp0x00 (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
20:37:53 --- join: warpzero (n=warpzero@208.74.136.138) joined #forth
20:38:37 --- join: Baughn (n=svein@084202038064.customer.alfanett.no) joined #forth
20:39:16 --- quit: Al2O3 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:39:17 --- join: Al2O3_ (n=Al2O3@c-75-70-5-69.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth
20:39:26 --- join: gnomon (n=gnomon@CPE0050eb372bdb-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth
20:40:19 --- join: warp0x00 (n=warpzero@208.74.136.138) joined #forth
20:40:45 --- quit: warp0x00 (Connection reset by peer)
20:51:39 --- quit: gnomon (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
20:51:39 --- quit: timlarson (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
20:51:39 --- quit: Fractal (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
20:55:34 --- join: gnomon (n=gnomon@CPE0050eb372bdb-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth
20:55:44 --- join: timlarson (n=timlarso@user-12l37rb.cable.mindspring.com) joined #forth
20:55:44 --- join: Fractal (i=frax@i.got.the.skillz.to.pay.the.billz.org) joined #forth
21:07:32 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #forth
21:10:51 --- nick: H4n1 -> H4ns
21:23:18 --- quit: arcus ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
21:36:51 --- join: forther (n=forther@c-67-180-150-67.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth
21:38:24 --- join: doublec (n=doublec@203-211-91-78.ue.woosh.co.nz) joined #forth
22:33:34 <JasonWoof> what? tor is for anonymity
22:33:54 --- quit: doublec ()
22:33:56 <JasonWoof> I'm curious about something that doesn't try to hide you
22:34:03 <JasonWoof> where there's no need to hide who's got what
22:39:30 --- quit: forther ("Leaving")
22:58:54 --- join: forther (n=forther@c-67-180-150-67.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth
23:17:04 --- quit: forther ("Leaving")
23:22:37 --- quit: Cark ()
23:47:16 --- quit: Off_Namuh (Remote closed the connection)
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/07.11.05