00:00:00 --- log: started forth/07.11.01
01:06:00 --- join: arcus (n=ajt@203.173.187.131) joined #forth
01:09:29 --- join: H4ns (n=Hans@p57A0E6F6.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth
01:18:10 --- quit: wossname (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:28:27 --- quit: H4n1 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:28:37 --- quit: arke (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:48:18 --- quit: TreyB (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:48:22 --- join: TreyB (n=trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth
01:57:20 --- part: KragenSitaker left #forth
01:57:24 --- join: arke (i=arke@x456.vpn.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de) joined #forth
01:57:24 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke
02:28:06 --- quit: Quartus__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:35:16 --- quit: H4ns (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
02:37:22 --- join: H4ns (n=Hans@p57BBB7FA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth
02:51:49 --- quit: TreyB (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:52:08 --- quit: H4ns ("Leaving.")
03:00:59 --- join: TreyB (n=trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth
03:01:41 --- join: wossname (n=w@CPE00195b252b77-CM001a666a6e78.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth
03:03:36 --- join: H4ns (n=Hans@p57BBB7FA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth
03:12:19 --- quit: C0ltZs1 (Remote closed the connection)
03:44:10 --- quit: Off_Namuh81 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:23:10 --- quit: arke (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Go on, try it!")
05:04:38 --- quit: arcus ("Ex-Chat")
05:17:24 --- quit: TreyB (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:18:06 --- join: TreyB (n=trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth
05:18:29 --- join: Crest (n=crest@p5489D5F2.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth
05:37:27 --- join: timlarson_ (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #forth
05:43:53 --- quit: nighty^ ("Disappears in a puff of smoke")
05:55:26 --- quit: gnomon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:58:39 --- quit: wossname (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:58:04 --- join: KipIngram (n=KipIngra@c-98-198-88-177.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) joined #forth
07:07:30 <KipIngram> Has anyone here used GForth on an RTAI-patched Linux system for real-time work?
07:09:59 <Quartus___> Nobody I've heard of.
07:11:23 --- join: Quartus__ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.2) joined #forth
07:13:33 --- quit: Quartus___ ()
07:13:45 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM001947482b20.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth
07:13:45 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus
07:21:18 --- join: Quartus___ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.2) joined #forth
07:38:09 --- quit: Quartus__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
07:41:59 --- join: wossname (n=w@CPE00195b252b77-CM001a666a6e78.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth
08:37:08 --- quit: ZabaQ (Connection timed out)
08:51:56 --- join: ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) joined #forth
09:14:34 --- join: gnomon (n=gnomon@CPE0050eb372bdb-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth
09:16:30 --- part: KipIngram left #forth
09:21:05 --- quit: H4ns (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09:52:47 <slava> i'd like to implement real time garbage collection in factor at some point.
10:03:58 --- quit: Al2O3 ()
10:06:05 --- join: edrx (i=edrx@189.25.160.54) joined #forth
10:15:24 --- join: H4ns (n=Hans@p57A0E6F6.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth
10:45:03 --- quit: timlarson_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
10:52:07 --- quit: gnomon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:58:02 <kc5tja> slava: I hear that Henry Baker is the guy to see for that.
11:04:14 <JasonWoof> slava: what's unreal about the current gc?
11:04:25 <slava> unbounded pause time
11:05:07 <JasonWoof> ouch
11:05:18 <slava> well, conventional malloc/free has the same problem
11:05:33 <slava> because your free lists might be arbitrarily long, taking time to search
11:06:00 <slava> reference counting also has unpredictable pauses because decrementing one ref count can cascade and cause a ton of objects to all drop their ref count to 0 and be deallocated
11:06:31 <slava> with gc you just have to break up the heap scanning into chunks, and try to do a bit of gc for every allocation
11:06:39 <slava> instead of waiting for the heap to fill up and scanning the whole thing
11:08:50 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@197.sub-70-219-11.myvzw.com) joined #forth
11:09:06 <JasonWoof> right
11:09:20 <kc5tja> Hooray for generations.  :)
11:09:25 --- join: forther (n=forther@207.47.34.100.static.nextweb.net) joined #forth
11:09:50 <slava> kc5tja: i already have generations but in the worst case you collect every generation
11:10:06 <slava> i think something like 1 in 50 gc's scans the whole heap
11:10:24 <slava> but if you're playing a 3d game for instance, a 100ms pause every few minutes is noticable and undesirable
11:11:55 <JasonWoof> a very good point
11:12:04 <JasonWoof> last time we discussed this I hadn't thought of that
11:12:14 <slava> also in some applications a 100ms pause is completely unacceptable, eg data collectioni
11:12:15 <JasonWoof> hadn't thought about GC much at all...
11:12:29 <slava> for truly real time stuff you don't want gc at all
11:12:47 <slava> but for soft real time applications like games, you can implement an incremental gc where in practice it never pauses for more than 1-2ms
11:12:55 <JasonWoof> in my mind I likened it to the DOS defrag chore vs linux which keeps the disks reasonably defragged all the time
11:13:14 <JasonWoof> it's not that linux dosen't do it, it's that (agaik) linux does it a little at a time here and there
11:13:24 <slava> linux just allocates blocks on disk more intelligently
11:13:47 <slava> think of it like DOS being a naive malloc() with a single free list, first fit algorithm, and Linux being a smarter malloc() which aims to reduce fragmentation
11:14:00 <slava> defrag is like a compacting GC :)
11:14:02 --- quit: wossname (Connection timed out)
11:14:09 <JasonWoof> yep
11:14:23 <slava> in fact compaction is one of the things that you can do wit hGC which is hard in an environment with explicit deallocation and pointer arithmetic
11:14:35 <slava> because a GC knows where all the pointers are, it can move objects around, assuming it updates pointers correctly
11:20:55 <happy_guy> http://www.ultratechnology.com/4thlinda.html
11:21:03 <happy_guy> is there a fre implmentation of this?
11:21:29 <slava> factor supports erlang-style distributed message passing
11:22:45 <happy_guy> oh wow are you the factor guy?
11:23:40 --- join: timlarson (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #forth
11:24:58 <happy_guy> hmmm
11:25:01 <happy_guy> interesting
11:25:14 <JasonWoof> he's the factor guy :)
11:27:03 --- quit: Al2O3 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:33:39 --- join: KipIngram (n=KipIngra@c-98-198-88-177.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) joined #forth
11:35:18 --- part: edrx left #forth
12:19:05 <happy_guy> so factor is kidna soemthing else again from forth....
12:19:10 <happy_guy> hm
12:22:07 <KipIngram> Yes, Factor goes well beyond  Forth (so much so that I wouldn't call it Forth anymore).
12:22:22 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-088-068-010-087.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth
12:30:28 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-7963af3fdcafa4e6) joined #forth
12:39:30 --- join: foucist (i=thin@bespin.org) joined #forth
12:39:31 --- mode: ChanServ set +o foucist
12:40:28 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:40:36 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42
12:40:51 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@12.sub-70-215-199.myvzw.com) joined #forth
12:42:12 --- join: Al2O3_ (n=Al2O3@103.sub-70-219-141.myvzw.com) joined #forth
12:50:28 --- join: saon (i=84aaa0df@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-95d4d717ae876065) joined #forth
12:58:36 --- quit: Al2O3 (Connection timed out)
13:00:13 --- join: wossname (n=w@CPE00195b252b77-CM001a666a6e78.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth
13:30:07 --- quit: timlarson ("Leaving")
13:42:39 --- part: KipIngram left #forth
13:47:04 --- part: foucist left #forth
13:59:29 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection)
13:59:50 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-c896059687f89fe6) joined #forth
14:10:40 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth
14:10:40 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi
14:11:16 --- join: doublec (n=doublec@202.180.114.137) joined #forth
14:24:47 --- quit: happy_guy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:24:58 --- quit: saon ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
14:27:21 --- join: The_Wuhb (n=mickey@147.21.16.3) joined #forth
14:54:00 --- quit: forther ("Leaving")
14:55:19 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection)
15:17:57 --- quit: Snoopy42 ()
15:18:22 --- join: Snoopy42 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-148-072.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth
15:32:04 --- quit: Al2O3_ ("Eggplant & SenseTalk: Driving Success Through Automation")
15:35:02 --- quit: Crest (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
15:35:16 --- quit: ecraven ("bbl")
15:39:52 --- join: Crest (n=crest@p5489D5F2.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth
15:53:29 --- join: snowrichard (n=Richard@65.127.79.7) joined #forth
15:53:35 <snowrichard> hi
15:57:15 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving")
16:01:11 --- join: crest_ (n=crest@p5489DF62.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth
16:03:04 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@221.sub-70-215-112.myvzw.com) joined #forth
16:16:37 <KNY> how can I test if an element on the stack is a valid memory location?
16:18:04 <tathi> can't really
16:18:59 <tathi> well, not portably.  Possibly in some code specific to whatever Forth you're using...
16:19:10 --- quit: Crest (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:20:07 <slava> KNY: sounds like you want a language with types
16:20:41 <KNY> slava, unfortunately, my assignment has Forth as a requirement :)
16:21:15 <KNY> I guess I'll just stick with testing if it's negative (the only other data that's supposed to be on the stack is a length)
16:21:22 <slava> addresses are unsigned
16:21:23 <tathi> if you're not using dynamic memory management, you could maybe save HERE at the beginning of your program, and check that the address is between that value and the current HERE...
16:21:31 <slava> so a valid address might be negative when viewed as a signe dinteger
16:21:48 <KNY> slava, ah
16:22:29 <KNY> my specific implementation is gforth if it matters
16:23:14 <tathi> here constant start   : valid? ( addr -- flag ) start here within ;
16:23:37 --- join: forther (n=forther@207.47.34.100.static.nextweb.net) joined #forth
16:23:46 <tathi> that would still let you overwrite code accidentally on gforth though, since it uses a combined code/data space
16:25:25 <tathi> anything to give you more safety than that probably would need a language with types...
16:28:42 <KNY> tathi, thanks, it's a huge help
16:30:04 <KNY> what does @ do? I thought it de-referenced memory pointers, but I'm either mistaken or making a mistake in my code :)
16:30:17 <slava> that's what it does
16:30:19 <slava> @ ( addr -- cell )
16:30:26 <KNY> back to the code, then :)
16:42:34 --- quit: Al2O3 (Connection timed out)
16:45:10 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@109.sub-70-209-207.myvzw.com) joined #forth
16:45:48 <The_Wuhb> slava does your factor have a webserver? how is it?
16:48:31 <tathi> yes
16:51:43 --- join: snowrichard (n=Richard@65.127.79.7) joined #forth
16:51:49 <snowrichard> hi
17:10:24 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving")
17:12:07 --- quit: forther ("Leaving")
17:27:03 <KNY> can I have two structs that have a common property? I want both my-struct-1 and my-struct-2 to have a field "size" so I can get the size of it, regardless of which is on the stack
17:27:15 <KNY> but if i have them the same name, I get "redefined" warnings
17:28:04 <TreyB> Subclass or derive one from another or from a common base.
17:28:38 <KNY> TreyB, I'll look it up, thanks
17:36:36 --- join: saon (n=saon@207.138.42.211) joined #forth
17:38:02 <KNY> TreyB, I'm stumped; how do you do that with structs?
17:38:55 <kc5tja> struct Sub {
17:38:59 <kc5tja>   struct Base b;
17:39:03 <kc5tja>   ...specialized fields here...
17:39:03 <kc5tja> }
17:39:17 <kc5tja> A pointer to a Sub is also a pointer to a Base.
17:39:27 <kc5tja> It's how single-inheritance works in OO languages.
17:39:46 <kc5tja> (I gave my example using C structures, but the concepts are the same.)
17:40:05 <KNY> yeah, I get OO inheritance
17:40:28 <KNY> but when I have a type in the super-struct, don't I have to put a specific type?
17:40:52 <kc5tja> Forth has no types.
17:41:06 <KNY> like struct-a% field some-value
17:41:25 <kc5tja> Oh, yeah, you have to embed the structure, in order to reserve space for its state.
17:42:07 <KNY> how do I embed two structures? (so it would have the same effect as struct-a-or-b% field some-value)
17:42:40 <kc5tja> I really don't understand your example.
17:42:48 <kc5tja> What do you mean by embed *two* structures?
17:43:08 <KNY> give me a second and I'll pseudocode it
17:43:14 <kc5tja> Thanks.
17:48:17 --- quit: The_Wuhb ()
17:48:24 <KNY> kc5tja, alright, this is the best I can describe it: http://samp.rh.rit.edu:81/~evan/forth.txt
17:49:28 --- nick: timlarson__ -> timlarson
17:49:33 <KNY> it's a stupid example since branches contain other branches in real life, but whatever
17:49:48 <KNY> not trees contain trees and end when it gets to a branch :)
17:51:27 <JasonWoof> gforth has built-in stuct code?
17:52:12 <KNY> JasonWoof, there's a compat/struct.fs that gets loaded, I think
17:56:06 <JasonWoof> ok, I see gforth/struct.fs and gforth/compat/struct.fs
17:56:15 <JasonWoof> seems they're mostly the same, except the former has nice comments
17:57:33 <JasonWoof> ok, seems to me you could do something like:   struct leafy-thing% field whocareswhatthisiscalled cell% field num-branches
18:00:31 <JasonWoof> as long as you embed the super-class (leafy-thing) first, you can use the accessors from that class on this new class
18:05:35 <kc5tja> JasonWoof: Had it from day one.
18:05:55 <kc5tja> KNY: Like I said, you have to embed the leafy-thing *inside* (as the VERY FIRST element) Tree and Node.
18:06:22 <kc5tja> The reason you want it as the very first element in the structure is because the address to the structure and the address to the leafy-thing are the same.
18:06:34 <JasonWoof> I think you can embed it by putting this at the begining of your struct:  leafy-thing% field whatever
18:06:37 <kc5tja> Hence, no need to do weird pointer arithmetic.
18:06:45 <kc5tja> Exactly.
18:06:48 <JasonWoof> exactumundo
18:07:57 <kc5tja> exactalamente.  :)
18:08:07 <KNY> gotcha, I'll play around with it then
18:08:08 <KNY> thanks a lot!
18:08:19 <kc5tja> No problem.  :)
18:08:40 <tathi> looks like you can use 'field,' instead of 'field' if you don't want a name.
18:13:55 <JasonWoof> nice
18:19:41 <JasonWoof> struct.fs looks cool
18:20:02 <JasonWoof> is I read through most of it, and I think I can see how to use it... but is it actually documented some place?
18:20:26 <kc5tja> JasonWoof: In grand GForth tradition, not that I'm aware of.
18:20:39 <JasonWoof> figures
18:21:10 <JasonWoof> I might actually like gforth if it had at least decent documentation
18:24:33 <kc5tja> GForth is OK.
18:24:42 <kc5tja> Not a speed demon, but it seems capable enough for most things I throw at it.
18:26:53 --- quit: saon (Remote closed the connection)
18:27:58 --- quit: Quartus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:28:08 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM001947482b20.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth
18:28:08 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus
18:34:09 <tathi> The structures code is perfectly well documented in the gforth manual
18:35:07 <tathi> Aha.  Actually they talk about extending an existing structure.
18:35:40 <JasonWoof> oh, wait, you can probably just start your structure with "leafy-thing%" instead of "struct"
18:35:44 <tathi> yup
18:37:04 --- join: snowrichard (n=Richard@65.127.79.7) joined #forth
18:37:05 <snowrichard> hi
18:37:15 <TreyB> Howdy.
18:37:41 <snowrichard> installling new gentoo, waiting on several emerges.  How's it going?
18:39:06 <TreyB> Not bad.  I like gentoo, except for the build times.  Will you do a binary emerge?
18:39:35 <TreyB> I handle some of the build-times issue with a distcc farm, but it still takes a while.
18:39:55 <snowrichard> I used the minimal iso, source installs
18:40:30 --- join: gnomon (n=gnomon@99.232.48.217) joined #forth
18:40:31 <JasonWoof> heh
18:40:40 <JasonWoof> I used gentoo for a while
18:40:49 <snowrichard> I have Centos 5 as well
18:41:01 <JasonWoof> sounds cheap
18:41:15 <JasonWoof> hur hur
18:41:20 <snowrichard> like a nickel?
18:41:24 <JasonWoof> gentoo was a lot of work
18:41:28 <JasonWoof> and waiting of course
18:41:45 <TreyB> Yeah, I wouldn't recommend it for everyone.
18:41:57 <TreyB> For mass-market purposes, Ubuntu does a fine job.
18:42:01 <JasonWoof> when I have a spare few days (yeah, right) I'm going to wipe gentoo from my laptop and install ubuntu
18:42:20 <snowrichard> I actually have XP home on my laptop
18:42:26 <JasonWoof> some of the ubuntu defaults are terrible
18:42:31 <snowrichard> just bought about a week ago
18:42:58 <snowrichard> its used
18:43:02 <JasonWoof> but it's generally handy. it somehow managed to get ALSA working, and I can now record on my mic and use my speakers at the same time!
18:43:10 <JasonWoof> yesterday I got VoIP working
18:43:12 <JasonWoof> good times
18:43:50 <snowrichard> I went through hell getting Vonage to work.  My ISP fixed it by giving me a static IP
18:44:21 <snowrichard> before that it was a 10.x.x.x. private IP
18:44:22 <TreyB> I use a WinXP laptop for work, but I prefer MacOS for my personal desktop.  I use Linux for MythTV and other service-oriented things.
18:45:21 <JasonWoof> woh, cool fade... 
18:45:42 <JasonWoof> speaking of which, that's another thing that now mysteriously works... with ubuntu I can shut off the backlight on my flat pannel
18:46:48 <snowrichard> the internal battery on the used laptop doesn't seem to work properly.  But I have a car battery and an inverter, which powers it ok.  I've ordered a solar panel battery charger....
18:47:03 <JasonWoof> hehe :) cool
18:47:14 <snowrichard> and it can use the Cellphone GPRS to get on line
18:47:22 <JasonWoof> my laptop battery recently decided to only last about 5 minutes
18:48:04 <JasonWoof> snowrichard: how much does it cost to go online over GPRS?
18:48:07 <snowrichard> Motorola Phone tools has the GPRS connection
18:48:24 <snowrichard> I have 20 a month unlimited data plan with 200 text messages 
18:48:54 <JasonWoof> $20 extra per month to get unlimited data and 200 text messages?
18:49:07 <JasonWoof> or do you have only data and no voice?
18:49:15 <snowrichard> extra
18:49:27 <snowrichard> I have a lot of voice minutes too
18:49:29 <JasonWoof> what's the download/upload speed(s)?
18:49:45 <TreyB> Way better than zero without it :-)
18:49:46 <snowrichard> its not bad.  Voip apps like Paltalk work ok
18:50:43 <snowrichard> it  was $.01 per K on the pay per use
18:51:12 <JasonWoof> out
18:51:18 <JasonWoof> $10/Meg
18:51:25 <JasonWoof> s/out/ouch/
18:51:38 <snowrichard> yeah so the $20 was a better choice
18:51:42 <JasonWoof> :)
18:52:09 <JasonWoof> well, if you can do voip, then it can't be too slow, and must have good latency
18:52:40 <JasonWoof> how is it hooked to your computer?
18:52:50 <snowrichard> the phone has a usb port
18:52:54 <JasonWoof> sweet
18:53:22 <snowrichard> I have the motorola java SDK too
18:53:34 <JasonWoof> does your phone still ring if the computer's using it for internet?
18:53:39 <snowrichard> yep
18:54:19 <snowrichard> its the razr v3
18:54:31 <snowrichard> black
18:55:18 <JasonWoof> sounds pretty rad
18:55:41 <snowrichard> in two years I can upgrade without a penalty I may go to a linux phone then
18:56:09 <JasonWoof> I was just reading that there were starting to be a bunch of linux phones
18:56:21 <JasonWoof> also pretty rad
18:56:44 <TreyB> Perhaps you'll have a choice of hardware running Google's Linux-based phone stack.
18:56:49 <JasonWoof> presumably then it'd be possible to disable the *&^@#*#@ noises
18:57:16 <TreyB> Noises?
18:57:18 <snowrichard> well I can send them to the bluetooth earpiece and not put it on
18:57:20 <JasonWoof> my phone makes noise when you hit volume-down. That's gotta be the dumbest thing in the universe
18:57:30 <TreyB> heh
18:57:41 <JasonWoof> even though I have "key beep" off
18:58:00 <TreyB> Some UI wonk made them do it.
18:58:11 <JasonWoof> yep. he should be shot
18:58:47 <snowrichard> well we are still compiling qt and wxGTK
18:59:10 <snowrichard> might as well go to sleep and let them finish lol
18:59:17 <JasonWoof> I wonder how often I'll yank the battery so I can kill the ringer without making intrusive electronic noises
19:00:06 <JasonWoof> trouble is, I know I won't be able to get the thing back on again without emitting a horrifying digital tinker-bell kakophony
19:00:35 <snowrichard> my teacher once said my writing was cacagraphy I had to look it up
19:00:46 <snowrichard> means "chicken-scratching"
19:01:18 <JasonWoof> makes sense
19:01:42 <snowrichard> needless to say I use the computer for anything I want someone else to read now
19:01:48 <JasonWoof> the sound is to cacophony as chicken-scratch is to cacography
19:02:09 <JasonWoof> yeah, hand-writing is not the most useful skill
19:02:35 <JasonWoof> nice hand-writing I mean
19:02:46 <JasonWoof> I rarely write more than a few words for someone else to read
19:03:15 <snowrichard> my banking site is down again
19:03:22 <snowrichard> must be on IIS
19:05:14 <snowrichard> get a real useful message to call customer service or try later, but they are closed
19:07:03 <JasonWoof> heh
19:07:06 <JasonWoof> banks are never open
19:07:15 <JasonWoof> I have two banks
19:07:20 <JasonWoof> they use the same online banking service
19:07:43 <JasonWoof> it must use the same cookie name or something, because I can't log into both accounts at once
19:08:00 <JasonWoof> I have to fully log out of one before I can log into my other bank
19:08:13 <JasonWoof> these are completely seperate banks that have no affiliation
19:08:16 <snowrichard> I had to move my personal account to another back because when my mom took over my VA payments as fiduciary, they couldn't figure out a way for me not to be able to access that account.
19:08:30 <snowrichard> another bank that is
19:09:23 <JasonWoof> ahh
19:09:46 <JasonWoof> I had to open another bank account because my bank wouldn't cash checks under my (DBA) business name
19:10:00 <JasonWoof> well, they would, but not with my free checking account
19:10:11 <JasonWoof> had to have a minimum balance, or fees, or something
19:10:28 <snowrichard> so you got another account free checking somewhere else?
19:11:44 <JasonWoof> yep
19:11:48 <JasonWoof> came in handly later
19:11:55 <JasonWoof> because paypal is annoying
19:12:12 <JasonWoof> you can "upgrade" your account so you can recieve payments from credit cards
19:12:32 <JasonWoof> but if you do that, it charges you the transaction fees on _all_ payments (including the ones that used to be free)
19:12:38 <snowrichard> I think I already have the business paypal account
19:12:50 <snowrichard> but not really got any business going yet
19:13:06 <JasonWoof> so to have free transactions, and cc transactions, you need two paypal accounts
19:13:18 <JasonWoof> and paypal won't let you hook two paypal accounts to the same bank account
19:18:41 <JasonWoof> I have a payment form on my site that asks you how much you're paying, says you can avoid the processing fee with a paypal payment, or pay a bit more with your credit card
19:19:02 <JasonWoof> it does the math and sends them to the appropriate paypal payment account
19:19:30 <snowrichard> oh ok
19:19:55 <snowrichard> I've just been eating the fees but I priced them into the products price
19:20:22 <snowrichard> not a lot of sales so doesn't matter much anyway
19:20:56 <Quartus> Hi.
19:21:07 <snowrichard> hello Quartus
19:21:35 <JasonWoof> I'm usually billing for $100-$300
19:22:25 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving")
19:22:30 <JasonWoof> so it's $3-$9
19:23:40 <JasonWoof> seemed stupid that I get shafted for $9 so they can get $4 in air miles or some crap
19:23:52 <JasonWoof> or $2 cash back
19:25:15 <JasonWoof> and the bit that's relivant to this channel... I wrote the payment forms in gforth :)
19:30:29 --- quit: timlarson ("Leaving")
19:30:57 --- quit: tathi ("leaving")
19:35:07 --- join: timlarson (n=timlarso@user-12l37rb.cable.mindspring.com) joined #forth
19:39:34 --- quit: Quartus___ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:47:58 <JasonWoof> I coded my structures by hand though =)
19:48:17 --- quit: gnomon (Remote closed the connection)
19:51:56 --- quit: Al2O3 ("Eggplant & SenseTalk: Driving Success Through Automation")
19:52:26 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@109.sub-70-209-207.myvzw.com) joined #forth
19:56:03 <KNY> : my-word ( adr -- n ) recursive \ skipping the rest of the word
19:56:12 <KNY> why does it say that my word is unstructured?
19:56:24 <Quartus> ... what is this \ skipping the rest of the word  stuff?
19:56:43 <KNY> I didn't want to type it all out
19:57:01 <KNY> though I probably should so that you can see it
19:57:03 <Quartus> The problem isn't in the bit you've typed.
19:57:49 <JasonWoof> KNY: copy and paste are your friends :)
19:57:58 <Quartus> so is the pastebin in the topic
19:58:03 <KNY> JasonWoof, :)
19:58:53 <KNY> what would cause an unstructured word? it's just an if/else/then
19:59:02 <Quartus> without seeing it, it's hard to say
20:00:31 <JasonWoof> KNY: anything like "if" or "do" that expects to be ended before the end of the definition
20:01:00 <KNY> I have a recursive call in the "then" of the if
20:01:03 <KNY> two, actually
20:01:14 <Quartus> that won't matter
20:01:16 <JasonWoof> just paste it...
20:01:28 <JasonWoof> if it's more that a few lines use a paste page
20:01:39 <KNY> http://forth.pastebin.ca/758330
20:03:30 <Quartus> That code doesn't fail to compile, once I provide dependency stubs.  The problem is probably in the word above it.
20:03:40 <Quartus> Your best bet is to test as you code.
20:03:49 <Quartus> Ideally, you leave the tests in.
20:03:50 <KNY> I'll look through it
20:03:51 <KNY> thanks
20:04:18 <Quartus> What I did to figure that out is copy your code into its own file, and then provide a couple of null definitions for ball-weight, etc.  
20:04:27 <Quartus> Then I fed it to gforth, and it compiled fine.
20:04:44 <KNY> I'm so stupid, ahah
20:04:52 <Quartus> At a random guess, I'd say you forgot the ; on the line above
20:04:54 <KNY> I didn't even look at the line number; I just assumed it was the method I was chaning
20:04:58 <KNY> changing*
20:05:01 <Quartus> method?
20:05:04 <KNY> erm, sorry
20:05:09 <KNY> jumping from Java to Forth :)
20:05:09 <JasonWoof> hehe
20:05:13 <JasonWoof> gotta get the lingo right
20:05:14 <JasonWoof> "word"
20:05:21 <Quartus> definition works as well
20:05:22 <kc5tja> word up, yo...
20:05:35 <JasonWoof> "definition" is nice and general
20:05:40 <kc5tja> The froth is in the HIZZOUSE!
20:05:47 <kc5tja> OK, I'm going home.
20:05:49 <JasonWoof> hiawatha!
20:05:59 <kc5tja> Zero productvity today, but fsck /dev/it.
20:06:03 <JasonWoof> have a nice trip
20:06:20 <kc5tja> I intend to -- I'm riding my bike again, after a month of figuring out what was wrong with it.
20:06:26 <kc5tja> Feels good to be on the road again.
20:06:29 <JasonWoof> good stuff
20:06:33 <JasonWoof> cold here
20:06:45 <JasonWoof> 43F   Feels like: 39F
20:07:04 <KNY> 37F   Feels like: 31F
20:07:06 <KNY> Woohoo!
20:07:15 <JasonWoof> yoinks
20:07:17 <KNY> (I love winter/cold)
20:07:51 <JasonWoof> I'd like it more if this house didn't leak so much
20:08:02 <Quartus> stop filling it with water, then
20:08:40 <KNY> I have a friend from the south and he laughed at a commercial that came on that said to reduce energy costs by replacing windows
20:08:42 <KNY> he didn't get it
20:09:26 <KNY> (the south = southern US)
20:17:17 --- part: KNY left #forth
20:22:28 <JasonWoof> heh, when you put your hand near the sill and you can feel -10F air coming in, you can see the value in new windows
20:22:50 <JasonWoof> or perhaps when you get your $500 heating bill
20:29:48 <JasonWoof> I prefer to have my house full of warm air. It keeps leaking out though
20:36:46 <Quartus> hedonist!
20:53:34 --- join: Quartus__ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.2) joined #forth
21:08:24 --- join: Quartus___ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.2) joined #forth
21:20:17 --- quit: timlarson (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:20:43 --- join: timlarson (n=timlarso@user-12l37rb.cable.mindspring.com) joined #forth
21:21:07 --- quit: timlarson (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:21:46 --- join: timlarson (n=timlarso@user-12l37rb.cable.mindspring.com) joined #forth
23:39:20 --- log: started forth/07.11.01
23:39:20 --- join: clog (i=nef@bespin.org) joined #forth
23:39:20 --- topic: 'Welcome to #forth. We discuss the Forth programming language and a variety of technical subjects. Introduction and  Helpful Reading: http://forthfreak.net/index.cgi?FnFC | ANS/ISO Forth Standard doc: http://tinyurl.com/nx7dx | Gforth compiler:  http://tinyurl.com/s8uho | http://quartus.net/search | Paste: http://forth.pastebin.ca'
23:39:20 --- topic: set by tathi on [Fri Aug 24 08:25:49 2007]
23:39:20 --- names: list (clog forther edrx timlarson Al2O3 @Quartus crest_ Snoopy42 wossname H4ns TreyB madgarden @slava nighty- mem4tim maht_ @JasonWoof XeF4 @crc uiuiuiu segher rbarraud uiuiu cmeme madwork jdrake_ ccfg warp0x00 Baughn @kc5tja Fractal mrsbrisby)
23:48:32 --- join: Off_Namuh81 (i=GPS@gateway/tor/x-933ba47832c34c63) joined #forth
23:55:30 --- quit: Al2O3 ("Eggplant & SenseTalk: Driving Success Through Automation")
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/07.11.01