00:00:00 --- log: started forth/07.10.21 00:29:21 --- join: H4ns (n=Hans@p57A0E06C.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 01:08:09 --- quit: forther ("Leaving") 01:18:43 --- join: jns (n=jens@e179240020.adsl.alicedsl.de) joined #forth 01:43:25 --- join: wossname (n=w@CPE00195b252b77-CM001a666a6e78.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 02:44:51 --- join: doublec (n=doublec@203-97-173-6.cable.telstraclear.net) joined #forth 03:17:35 --- quit: Off_Namuh72 (Remote closed the connection) 03:29:37 --- join: Off_Namuh72 (i=GPS@gateway/tor/x-b738949a09e1e4b8) joined #forth 03:40:41 --- quit: doublec () 04:01:20 --- quit: wossname (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:21:26 --- nick: ark1 -> arke 04:29:37 --- join: arke__ (n=arke@p54A7DB19.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 04:31:44 --- quit: arke__ (Client Quit) 04:31:55 --- join: arke_ (n=arke@p54A7DB19.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 04:32:01 --- quit: saon ("leaving") 04:35:24 --- quit: arke ("A tit is a bird.") 04:42:45 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 05:19:17 --- quit: jns ("Ex-Chat") 05:29:46 --- join: ayrnieu (n=julian@184M26.oasis.mediatti.net) joined #forth 05:47:18 --- join: wossname (n=w@CPE00195b252b77-CM001a666a6e78.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 06:02:12 --- join: ygrek_ (i=user@gateway/tor/x-1367e9681b82774e) joined #forth 06:17:56 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 06:18:25 gforth-0.6.9-20070604 works on OpenBSD/arm 07:13:23 --- quit: C0ltZs1 (Remote closed the connection) 07:54:11 --- quit: nighty^ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 08:25:35 --- quit: ygrek_ (Remote closed the connection) 08:26:21 --- join: ygrek_ (i=user@gateway/tor/x-48a49a27fe9165d0) joined #forth 08:28:23 --- quit: H4ns (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:34:47 --- join: crest_ (n=crest@p5489F611.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 08:43:34 --- join: H4ns (n=Hans@p57A0E06C.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 08:49:53 --- join: saon (n=saon@207.138.42.211) joined #forth 08:56:20 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 09:11:03 --- quit: madgarden (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:17:13 --- join: malyn (i=malyn@gateway/tor/x-d43342530a76f0c4) joined #forth 09:24:08 --- quit: malyn (Remote closed the connection) 09:24:15 --- join: forther (n=forther@c-67-180-150-67.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:25:43 --- join: malyn (i=malyn@gateway/tor/x-26e6df99516a047e) joined #forth 09:34:25 --- quit: wossname (Connection timed out) 10:00:21 --- quit: nighty^ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:25:53 --- join: Raystm2 (i=Ray@unaffiliated/raystm2) joined #forth 10:44:58 --- join: jns (n=jens@e179249248.adsl.alicedsl.de) joined #forth 10:50:13 --- quit: ygrek_ (Remote closed the connection) 11:17:30 hi. 11:18:37 --- join: wossname (n=w@CPE00195b252b77-CM001a666a6e78.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 11:32:56 --- quit: forther (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:38:34 --- join: forther (n=forther@c-67-180-150-67.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 11:42:53 Greetings. 11:42:56 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 12:16:27 --- quit: forther (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:19:34 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-155-149.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 12:21:11 --- join: madgarden (n=madgarde@bas2-kitchener06-1096651024.dsl.bell.ca) joined #forth 12:25:22 --- quit: nighty^ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 12:27:40 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 12:27:50 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 12:27:53 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 12:42:16 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-e3fbf8b878182295) joined #forth 12:52:31 --- nick: arke_ -> arke 12:52:38 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 13:11:41 --- quit: malyn (Remote closed the connection) 13:22:36 --- part: saon left #forth 13:23:55 --- join: forther (n=forther@c-67-180-150-67.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 13:30:27 any excitement today? 13:31:36 not really 13:36:40 --- quit: wossname (Connection timed out) 13:37:31 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 13:43:19 --- quit: XeF4 (Remote closed the connection) 13:43:26 --- join: XeF4 (i=xef4@epilogue.org) joined #forth 13:51:15 * kc5tja is hacking on OpenAX.25. 13:51:29 * kc5tja is actually composing various modules together now. 13:51:34 I thought I'd never see this day. 13:52:02 2,500 lines of C source code dedicated to interfacing 418 lines of actual business logic to the #$&(*$&%ing Unix/sockets API. 13:52:51 AND, as if that weren't enough, I completely ignore signals. Managing signals would add still more code. 13:52:55 --- quit: XeF4 (Remote closed the connection) 13:53:04 why use C? 13:53:08 Fortunately for me, I'm going to continue to ignore signals until they become a real problem. If they even do. 13:53:20 Maximum portability to other OSes and environments. 14:17:15 --- join: malyn (i=malyn@gateway/tor/x-852b5b0bb184aa37) joined #forth 14:19:20 --- join: I440r (n=mark4_@c-68-54-222-37.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 14:20:04 --- join: XeF4 (n=xef4@epilogue.org) joined #forth 14:20:15 --- join: nighty__ (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 14:22:15 --- quit: nighty^ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 14:25:09 --- quit: XeF4 (Remote closed the connection) 14:28:13 --- quit: I440r ("Leaving") 14:29:02 --- join: I440r (n=mark4_@c-68-54-222-37.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 14:35:37 --- join: XeF4 (n=xef4@epilogue.org) joined #forth 14:40:41 --- quit: XeF4 (Remote closed the connection) 14:48:00 --- join: XeF4 (n=xef4@epilogue.org) joined #forth 14:52:13 --- part: malyn left #forth 14:53:05 --- quit: XeF4 (Remote closed the connection) 14:59:41 --- join: XeF4 (i=xef4@epilogue.org) joined #forth 14:59:56 --- join: malyn (i=malyn@gateway/tor/x-fcd1a6c92e6b288b) joined #forth 15:01:02 --- join: crest__ (n=crest@p5489D967.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 15:01:03 --- quit: nighty__ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 15:02:54 --- quit: jns (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:03:54 --- join: nighty__ (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 15:16:29 --- quit: crest_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:22:31 --- join: wossname (n=w@CPE00195b252b77-CM001a666a6e78.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 15:27:12 --- quit: nighty__ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 15:40:52 --- quit: forther ("Leaving") 15:57:49 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 15:57:49 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 15:59:04 --- join: ruediger (n=the-rued@chello062178150152.7.14.univie.teleweb.at) joined #forth 15:59:20 hi 15:59:36 hi 16:00:17 hi tathi 16:02:15 How goes it? 16:02:30 not bad -- you? 16:03:02 reasonably well. Though for the last hour or so I've been thinking it was Monday night. 16:03:12 Always annoying when I get mixed up as to which day it is... :) 16:03:24 heh 16:04:00 Almost left for Monday night choir practice before I realized. 16:04:31 * slava is working on porting factor to win ce 16:04:42 ugh 16:04:44 how's that going? 16:04:50 slowly 16:05:05 i have some crashes that show up on the device but not the emulator 16:05:06 * tathi hasn't heard good things about win ce 16:05:10 and there's no debugger on the device 16:05:14 well, its pretty decent 16:05:22 (not that I actually know anything about it...) 16:05:56 erg donated you a phone or something? 16:06:16 yeah 16:06:24 cool 16:06:28 we had a port going for an earlier release 16:06:38 but it needed major updates 16:07:17 what's a good example of a program written in forth? 16:09:31 there aren't that many :) 16:09:36 what kind of program are you looking for? 16:10:02 ruediger: That is a pretty open-ended question. :) 16:10:12 you can find plenty of open source apps though 16:10:13 games, etc 16:10:31 ." Hello, world!" cr bye 16:10:32 :) 16:11:06 * kc5tja has written VIBE, which everyone who tries it seems to like more or less. I've even had total newbies to Forth tell me it was a very readable program. 16:11:42 http://forthfreak.de/index.cgi?VIBE 16:13:20 I mean a program which is used in "real life". I already took a look at OpenBIOS 16:13:42 a lot of programs used in real life are closed source 16:15:20 I heard forth is often used for BIOS and Firmware stuff. 16:15:46 embedded stuff, yeah...which is hardly ever open source AFAICT 16:16:35 yeah :( 16:16:38 --- join: skas (n=skas@203-217-61-74.perm.iinet.net.au) joined #forth 16:16:52 (except for OpenBIOS. :)) 16:17:17 sure 16:18:40 kc5tja: this is really very readable. Thanks 16:19:32 What's funny is I've refined my coding style in Forth to be even easier to read. 16:19:36 :) 16:19:52 --- quit: skas (Client Quit) 16:22:19 Forth Code is often really easy to read. Except for most default Words. 16:22:43 default Words? 16:23:21 Perhaps referring to words like UM*/MOD or some such? :) 16:23:28 yes 16:23:28 It's all about coding conventions. 16:23:43 i mean builtin is not the right word referring to forth 16:23:48 However, traditional Forth programming has favored symbolism instead of long, descriptive names. 16:24:12 or e.g. >R R> R@ 16:25:24 Yeah. Not much you can say about R@, but >R R> have the names of PUSH POP in CM's more recent Forths. 16:25:45 you could call R@ PEEK :) 16:26:08 slava: do you? :) 16:26:32 factor doesn't have r@ 16:26:39 although its easy to implement, : r@ r> dup >r ; 16:26:47 No, I won't call R@ PEEK. 16:28:15 because PEEK goes with POKE? 16:29:00 If I were to just give it a name, I'd call it "I", like classic Forth does. 16:29:07 The 2nd top of return stack being "J". 16:33:01 Huh. I thought most Forths used two items on the return stack for DO..LOOP. 16:33:24 In fact, I sort of thought you had to. 16:33:34 OK, maybe J is the 3rd item then. 16:36:13 PEEK also goes with it's mirror KEEP. for flow. 16:37:17 ya, j would have to be third as it's buried under i and the return address above that. no? 16:37:35 no return address 16:38:02 oh in a loop j would have to be in the other loop it's fourth. 16:38:04 as soon as a domain expires, anyone can buy ti right? 16:38:05 that's below all the loop variables 16:38:16 slava true = on 16:38:35 can the original owners sue you to get it back? 16:39:14 I believe they can (in the US) if they have a registered trademark or something on the name. 16:39:17 Any body can sue you for anything. But that doesn't mean you don't own the name because you legally do according to the rules. 16:39:22 not sure about otherwise or internationally... 16:39:25 slava: i'm not sure. There are even some "companies" out there buying expired domain names 16:39:54 Mine was taken in my own error. :( 16:39:59 By a robot. 16:40:20 what if you offer to sell it back for a hefty price? 16:40:22 Nothing I could do about it but watch the release date arrive and then compete to get it back, but lost. 16:40:34 Hope they buy. 16:40:52 cool. i'm going to extort a guy who ripped me off 16:41:10 Now _that's_ sports folks! 16:41:13 hehe 16:41:29 Get 'em slava! Get 'em! 16:43:05 Sis boom ba! 17:44:07 --- quit: I440r ("Leaving") 18:09:01 --- quit: ruediger ("This computer has gone to sleep") 18:14:46 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 19:02:33 kc5tja: will you accept my linkedin invitation? :) 19:14:44 --- quit: gnomon (Remote closed the connection) 19:15:13 --- quit: gnomon_ (Remote closed the connection) 19:18:31 --- quit: wossname (Connection timed out) 19:28:06 --- join: arke_ (n=arke@p54A7DCBA.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 19:46:03 --- quit: arke (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:46:03 --- nick: arke_ -> arke 19:49:59 Yeah. 19:50:03 I was grabbing some food. 19:50:19 * kc5tja has to be picky; it seems he always gets a crazy upset stomach this time of night. :( 19:50:24 heh 19:54:02 hmmm... what do do, what to do 19:54:16 I think I need a high-priority list of hobby projects 19:54:49 well, one or two clear winners is what I want I guess 19:54:49 Well, what with my job coming to a close in January, you'd think I'd get off my butt and hack on Kestrel a bit. 19:55:01 After all, there are SOME folks interested in buying hardware. 19:55:18 (which amazes me, but I digress. If it helps with eating expenses, I'm down with it) 19:58:33 kc5tja: you spend a lot on eating? 19:58:48 At least twice to thrice a day! 19:58:54 oy 19:58:56 oh noes!!1!1! 19:59:08 You know -- silly that -- the need to eat. 19:59:15 more like twice or thrice a week for me 19:59:26 I can't do that. 19:59:32 Much as I'd love to... 19:59:32 kc5tja: no fridge? 19:59:40 I have to stock it with something, yes? 19:59:48 And I have to pay for said something, yes? ;D 19:59:54 preferably food 20:00:39 hmmm... ruby or PHP? 20:00:54 For what project? 20:00:57 lets see... yep, I care about syntax 20:01:11 websites 20:01:29 JasonWoof: time to learn the factor web framework... 20:01:30 I want to spend a couple hours now on research/coding to make my website scripting better 20:01:45 slava: Haha -- I was about to recommend Factor instead. :) 20:02:44 I wanna use roby 20:02:46 ruby 20:02:58 but I have such a nice body of code to work with in PHP 20:03:33 and ruby's startup time is crap 20:04:01 guess that's what I should do... figure out how to get ruby to reload my source file when I change it without reloading all the libs 20:04:41 in factor, i press f8 to reload any changed source files 20:05:11 I've mapped all my F-keys 20:05:16 cool feature though 20:05:36 it just executes 'refresh-all' :) 20:06:29 slava: Does Factor use a hyper-static global environment? 20:07:03 (meaning, if I redefine a word, I effectively smother the previous definition behind another, but existing code uses the old definition) 20:07:38 no it doesn't 20:09:08 OK, so it's more like Scheme then. 20:19:49 --- join: forther (n=forther@c-67-180-150-67.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 20:28:37 --- quit: ayrnieu (Connection timed out) 20:47:37 --- join: arke_ (n=arke@p54A7BF5B.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 20:48:00 --- join: saon (n=saon@207.138.42.211) joined #forth 21:04:52 --- join: wossname (n=w@CPE00195b252b77-CM001a666a6e78.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 21:05:44 --- quit: arke (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:05:44 --- nick: arke_ -> arke 21:07:14 --- quit: Off_Namuh72 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:15:25 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 21:16:11 --- quit: malyn () 22:07:42 --- join: Off_Namuh72 (i=GPS@gateway/tor/x-54eb24bb28d9d09b) joined #forth 22:16:00 --- mode: ChanServ set +o slava 23:06:56 --- join: H4n1 (n=Hans@p57A0CDED.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 23:08:49 --- join: jns (n=jens@e179249248.adsl.alicedsl.de) joined #forth 23:23:34 --- quit: H4ns (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:29:51 --- join: ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) joined #forth 23:29:58 --- quit: nighty^ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:33:18 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 23:34:54 --- quit: wossname (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:36:19 --- quit: jns (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/07.10.21