00:00:00 --- log: started forth/07.10.16 01:39:40 --- log: started forth/07.10.16 01:39:40 --- join: clog (i=nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 01:39:40 --- topic: 'Welcome to #forth. We discuss the Forth programming language and a variety of technical subjects. Introduction and Helpful Reading: http://forthfreak.net/index.cgi?FnFC | ANS/ISO Forth Standard doc: http://tinyurl.com/nx7dx | Gforth compiler: http://tinyurl.com/s8uho | http://quartus.net/search | Paste: http://forth.pastebin.ca' 01:39:40 --- topic: set by tathi on [Fri Aug 24 08:25:49 2007] 01:39:40 --- names: list (clog ecraven ygrek cmeme Snoopy42 Stepan madwork @slava crc TreyB maht Fractal ccfg uiuiuiu mem4tim segher rbarraud rbastos nighty- XeF4 oxygene @JasonWoof mrsbrisby madgarden @kc5tja Baughn) 02:04:05 --- join: wossname (n=w@CPE00195b252b77-CM001a666a6e78.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 02:26:59 --- join: warpzero (n=warpzero@208.74.136.138) joined #forth 02:33:34 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 03:04:08 --- join: arke (n=arke@x232.vpn.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de) joined #forth 03:04:08 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 03:12:28 --- join: arcus (n=ajt@203.173.147.161) joined #forth 04:21:53 --- quit: wossname (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:34:21 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(n=crest@p5489D0F0.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 15:04:39 --- quit: Crest (Connection timed out) 15:15:07 --- join: uiuiu (n=ian@HSI-KBW-085-216-030-033.hsi.kabelbw.de) joined #forth 15:34:45 --- join: arcus (n=Miranda@130.195.209.73) joined #forth 15:51:46 good evening 15:51:56 --- nick: crc__ -> crc 15:52:07 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 15:53:44 --- quit: jns (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:11:05 --- join: edrx (i=edrx@189.25.162.198) joined #forth 16:18:02 --- join: optikalmouse (n=user@bas1-toronto10-1279556029.dsl.bell.ca) joined #forth 16:18:30 quick question: is it possible to replace C program with Forth programs? 16:19:00 C programs* 16:19:30 I mean, I'd like to learn Forth but currently I have a class in C so I'm thinking that I'll convert some of the example programs in the course 16:20:04 but, I'd like to know how easy such a transition would be? 16:30:49 That depends. 16:31:04 Most of what people think of as "C" is actually stdc -- the standard C library. 16:31:15 Forth, OTOH, doesn't really have anything equivalent to a standard library. 16:31:37 So, unless you're willing to rewrite a lot of the standard string functions, for example, you're not going to find much in common. 16:31:43 k, does it have something like pointers? we're currently messing around with structs and unions :S 16:32:17 Pointers is all it has. 16:32:20 For example: 16:32:23 VARIABLE Foo 16:32:40 To access the variable Foo, you just use its name, but doing so results in an address. 16:32:45 Foo @ 4 + Foo ! 16:32:48 --- join: maht_ (n=maht@85-189-31-174.proweb.managedbroadband.co.uk) joined #forth 16:32:53 In C this is Foo = Foo + 4; 16:33:04 But in Forth, we use @ and ! to fetch-from and store-to (respectively). 16:33:41 ah ok 16:33:44 Forth has no built-in language support for structures or unions, but you can implement it in about 5 lines of Forth code or so. 16:33:51 : structure 0 ; 16:34:15 : field ...something I forget at the moment... ; 16:34:19 : end-structure constant ; 16:34:31 Then you'd define stuff like: 16:34:34 structure 16:34:40 1 cells field n_next 16:34:44 1 cells field n_previous 16:34:49 end-structure /Node 16:35:07 (by convention, words that start with / are read as "size-of" -- so /Node is "size-of Node") 16:35:17 That way, you can embed structures too: 16:35:19 structure 16:35:25 /Node field e_node 16:35:33 2 cells field e_name 16:35:41 2 cells field e_address 16:35:43 ...etc... 16:35:46 end-structure /employee 16:36:01 that's pretty neat 16:36:22 : field create over , + does> @ + ; 16:36:26 That's what it is. :) 16:36:31 I knew I'd remember it sooner or later. 16:37:31 One of my friends and I were thinking of starting a CPAN-like website for Forth packages and modules. 16:38:00 That way, we can propel the language into the 20th century, kicking and screaming. :D 16:38:49 hehe 16:39:08 have you taken a look at...I think it's called Factor? 16:39:45 I have, but I've not yet used it. 16:40:13 hmm, I'll try Forth out in the next week 16:40:38 any recommendations for compilers? 16:40:46 For just starting out, GForth, definitely. 16:40:55 It's 100% ANSI compliant, and it's relatively newbie friendly. 16:41:11 (this is despite a lack of documentation for the more interesting things it can do) 16:41:30 ah 16:41:34 Although you can still crash it by writing to a memory location you shouldn't, it's much harder to do than with other Forths. 16:41:44 does it toss out nice-ish error messages? 16:41:56 Yes, that's another thing I like about it. 16:42:15 It USUALLY (but not always, if the stacks get corrupted) prints out where to find the error too. 16:42:54 sweet heh 16:44:44 --- quit: maht (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:52:06 --- join: warpzero (n=warpzero@208.74.136.138) joined #forth 17:01:42 --- quit: crc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:01:51 --- quit: arcus (SendQ exceeded) 17:02:16 --- join: maht__ (n=maht@85-189-31-174.proweb.managedbroadband.co.uk) joined #forth 17:02:20 --- join: crc (n=crc@70.110.169.71) joined #forth 17:05:43 --- join: arcus (n=Miranda@130.195.209.73) joined #forth 17:06:27 --- quit: arcus (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:08:00 --- join: arcus (n=Miranda@130.195.209.73) joined #forth 17:11:32 --- quit: maht_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:13:26 --- join: timlarson (n=timlarso@fl-67-76-214-130.sta.embarqhsd.net) joined #forth 17:33:45 kc5tja: thanks for the answers, I'm off to study some C 17:34:15 --- part: optikalmouse left #forth 17:42:05 --- quit: forther ("Leaving") 17:59:19 Man 17:59:26 I'm so pissed off with sourceforge. 17:59:33 Their download paths are all broken. 17:59:33 why's that? 17:59:39 ech =/ 17:59:45 wrong channel. 17:59:47 Sorry. :) 17:59:51 heheh 18:00:02 GoboLinux has a package system which grabs sources directly from the likes of FTP.gnu.org and sf.net 18:00:08 But nothing, NOTHING, I put in for sf.net works. 18:00:27 I fucking hate sf.net 18:05:23 I hate how they have pages that end in .tar.bz2 and the like but are html pages listing mirrors 18:06:47 Yeah 18:06:57 They need an abject lesson in how to run a f***ing website. 18:17:00 hi kc5tja 18:17:09 i think swearing is ok in here. 18:17:12 repeat after me: 18:17:14 FUCKING website 18:17:15 :-P 18:21:46 heh 18:25:01 hosting files on sourceforge is a real pain for sure 18:25:29 heh 18:25:40 good thing i don't host downloads there anymore eh doublec ? 18:25:47 definitely 18:27:00 I stopped using SourceForge after the second time they wiped the content of my CUT website. 18:27:19 And even after admitting fault (a "runaway" script), they refused to offer restoration from backups. 18:27:30 I was like, "That is totally fucked up." 18:27:30 a few years back they'd have regular cvs server outages lasting weeks 18:27:52 and it would be based on letters in the alphabet 18:27:53 or you'd do 'cvs up' and it would take 10 minutes 18:27:59 doublec: haha yes 18:28:08 if you project begins with C through to K then your project is gone 18:28:10 "cvs server for projects h-m is down" 18:28:19 and i'm like, "damn". should've called jedit yedit or something 18:28:25 hehe 18:28:31 and anonymous cvs would lag for days 18:28:35 yes! 18:28:43 when they fixed that it was the greatest thing ever 18:28:46 i remember you telling contributers to update from CVS in X days 18:29:17 if anybody comes across the factor sourceforge project page they'll think its dead 18:29:26 the cvs hasn't been touched for 2 years and the downloads are out of date too 18:31:50 That's pathetic. 18:32:17 i can't believe 90% of all open source developers decided to host their stuff at SF 18:32:19 i was fooled too 18:32:26 it was good in the early days 18:32:33 and pretty much the only option 18:32:36 jedit was project 588 18:32:51 CUT was way later than that. 18:32:57 I got on well after the golden days, apparently. 18:33:08 now they have 160,000 projects 18:33:26 its just too much centralization 18:33:34 one day something will happen to VA 18:34:23 --- join: arcus_ (n=Miranda@130.195.209.73) joined #forth 18:34:47 doublec: do you run any forths on your phone? 18:34:51 --- quit: arcus (Nick collision from services.) 18:34:56 --- nick: arcus_ -> arcus 18:38:05 --- part: edrx left #forth 18:43:58 --- quit: crc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:44:09 --- join: crc (n=crc@pool-70-110-169-71.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 18:46:34 slava, not on the 8525 18:46:40 I did run ficl on my Nokia 9210 18:47:05 i couldn't find anything decent for ce 18:47:26 no CL implementations either 18:47:32 there's talk of porting sbcl to arm though 18:47:38 p4 should compile 18:47:43 using cegcc 18:47:59 but the jit wouldn't work since it's x86 only 19:07:52 --- quit: Al2O3 () 19:12:20 --- quit: Off_Namuh72 (Excess Flood) 19:14:20 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@pool-71-170-130-84.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 19:23:48 --- join: ark1 (n=arke@p54A7CFE8.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 19:31:55 --- quit: Raystm2 ("Should have paid the bill.") 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(n=FMota@dhcp-36-203-57-69.cf-res.cfu.net) joined #forth 20:44:43 --- quit: FMota (Client Quit) 20:44:54 --- join: FMota (n=FMota@dhcp-36-203-57-69.cf-res.cfu.net) joined #forth 21:13:28 @&^*#$ who designed sf.net? 21:13:40 on the third attempt, I was actually able to get my cursor into the search box 21:13:53 stupid popup menus kept covering it over 21:15:03 --- quit: doublec () 21:15:48 good, looks like they did eventually remove my decrepet old project 21:17:27 iirc I put it on sf to see if others would be interested in working on it with me 21:17:48 nope 21:17:56 I lost interest in the project shortly after that 21:20:32 I wanted a jabber client that didn't suck 21:20:55 eventually I discovered bittlbee 21:21:08 bitlebee that is 21:21:25 so I can chat with google-talk folks with irssi 21:29:32 * kc5tja nods 21:29:48 sf.net is like the brothel of software hosting. 21:30:04 That doesn't maintain proper cleanliness at that. 21:31:05 sf.net is free, and people know about it 21:31:07 that's about all it takes 21:44:41 --- join: Off_Namuh72 (i=GPS@gateway/tor/x-8f09f4c7e6776dc9) joined #forth 22:56:00 --- join: jns (n=jens@e179249163.adsl.alicedsl.de) joined #forth 23:24:29 --- quit: ark1 (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 23:33:14 --- quit: jns (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:39:46 --- quit: nighty ("Disappears in a puff of smoke") 23:40:18 --- join: arke (n=arke@x151.vpn.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de) joined #forth 23:40:18 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 23:44:31 --- join: ark1 (n=arke@x248.vpn.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de) joined #forth 23:45:53 --- join: ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/07.10.16