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04:14:45 <imaginator> hi
04:18:22 <imaginator> I created something somewhat interesting after my failed Forth attempts before.  It was inspired by some of the comments about my bad Forth code :)  I sought to make it easier, and I took Elizabeth Rather's comments very seriously.
04:19:27 <imaginator> I made a stack-based visual language http://georgeps.dsl.xmission.com:8887/mengine-40.png
04:20:04 <imaginator> The editor in that screenshot generates a list of lists, and then a tool I wrote converts the lists to assembly code.  It's pretty cool I think, and it works.  :)
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05:35:29 <Quartus> so rather than improve your Forth, you went and did something else entirely?
05:36:04 <imaginator> yes
05:36:19 <imaginator> not entirely different.  it's still stack-based
05:37:06 <imaginator> I also wanted easier C compatibility than Ficl offered.
05:37:43 <imaginator> With the c-call word that is written in assembly language I can call nearly any function, except those that return a union or struct.
05:39:03 <imaginator> I find this easier to visualize too than a text editor and Ficl.  I can see also why Chuck Moore likes his ColorForth, but it's just not pragmatic enough for me.
05:44:37 <imaginator> I call the rectangular areas with the X buttons cadgets.  I can drag them up or down.  The pink indicates the active cadget frame.
05:47:02 <imaginator> I've done some controversial things in this as well. For instance you can get the address of a cell, so there are no assumptions/restrictions about the TOS being cached in a register
05:47:11 <imaginator> variables are also the same
05:47:33 <Quartus> how is that controversial?
05:48:00 <imaginator> just doesn't seem like the Forth way I guess
05:48:12 <Quartus> You are indeed guessing.
05:48:16 <imaginator> I use it for passing the address of cells to some C syscalls
05:49:00 <imaginator> The Forth standard doesn't allow some things because the authors assumed certain data might be cached in registers.
05:49:07 <Quartus> Such as?
05:49:29 <imaginator> I recall something about locals and that.
05:49:56 <imaginator> I think I also read it on comp.lang.forth
05:50:06 <imaginator> I'll go get my book and look there too
05:51:47 <imaginator> Quartus: does this ring a bell?
05:51:54 <imaginator> or are you just trying to make me look foolish?
05:52:17 <Quartus> I assure you you're doing a sufficient job of that yourself :)
05:53:25 <imaginator> how predictable
05:53:42 <imaginator> Quartus: what did I do to get on your bad side?
05:54:08 <Quartus> It amuses me that you think this is my bad side.
05:54:28 <imaginator> hmm
05:56:44 <imaginator> I apologize then.  I misinterpret people.
05:56:58 <Quartus> I wasn't offended.
05:57:36 <Quartus> But seriously -- you came on here months back, got some valid criticism of your Forth.  You subsequently posted a petulant note about it to comp.lang.forth, and got virtually identical responses there.
05:57:54 <Quartus> So instead of embracing that and improving your Forth, you've gone off to make some other little implementation of something or other.
05:58:14 <imaginator> re: locals and registers. now I remember.   someone on comp.lang.forth was asking how to get the address of a local, and I believe someone said (paraphrase) "you can't, in ANS Forth"
05:58:20 <Quartus> And now you're proclaiming various things about the Standard as fact, while being completely unable to support your claims.
05:59:18 <Quartus> Whether or not a Standard implementation provides the ability to determine the address of a local has nothing to do with whether or not the TOS is cached in a register.
05:59:50 <imaginator> ok
06:00:24 <Quartus> so when I say you're doing an adequate job of making yourself look foolish, it's to the above points that I refer.
06:00:32 <imaginator> ok, thank you
06:00:51 <Quartus> I still strongly recommend you improve your Forth skills.
06:01:03 <imaginator> What does a fool need with Forth?
06:01:36 <Quartus> More petulance.  Ok.  Good luck with the 'cadgets'.
06:02:19 <imaginator> Quartus: how are you any different when you call me a fool?
06:04:00 <imaginator> I was sharing stuff with the Forth community, trying to be a part of it.  And I get called a fool, for trying my best.
06:04:14 <imaginator> That was months ago.  Then I come here again and get the same thing.
06:06:29 <imaginator> I notice that no one else talks.  Do others here also view me as a fool?
06:06:37 <imaginator> If I am a fool then please tell me
06:06:54 <H4ns> i am too new to be able to judge whether you are a fool, but you are a whiner.
06:07:24 <imaginator> anyone else?
06:07:39 <Quartus> How many does it take?
06:07:57 <imaginator> Quartus: are you a religious man?
06:08:15 <Quartus> That's none of your business.
06:08:25 <H4ns> (...)
06:08:50 <imaginator> Quartus: well you don't believe in Jesus clearly.  I'm just curious what sort of ethics or guidelines guide you
06:08:56 <Quartus> That's none of your business.
06:10:00 <imaginator> I failed, because I got affected by you
06:10:09 <imaginator> I shouldn't have even said anything to your comments
06:10:30 <imaginator> Come on, someone call me a fool.  Someone tell me to kill myself
06:10:41 <H4ns> imaginator: can you now please stop with the whining?  this is supposed to be a technical channel, talk tach or get lost.
06:10:44 <imaginator> Come on and call me a whiner.  I really don't care
06:11:14 <Quartus> Look, kid, get outside, get some sun, take some exercise.   If you can't bear to hear criticism, don't solicit it.
06:11:28 <imaginator> criticism isn't calling someone a fool
06:11:49 <imaginator> repeatedly without knowing them more than 5 minutes or their thoughts
06:12:19 <Quartus> wow. Do you really want to continue this?  Because I'll continue to tell you the truth, and so far it upsets you.
06:12:30 <imaginator> yes, I do
06:12:33 <imaginator> I want to resolve it in fact
06:12:47 <imaginator> I never wanted to be hostile to you, or anyone.  I don't understand why I was attacked here
06:12:51 <Quartus> You weren't.
06:12:59 <imaginator> how do you feel if I call you a fool?
06:13:21 <imaginator> or if someone you respect calls you a fool.  I know that others here respect you, so I was hurt even more by that.
06:13:37 <H4ns> *sob*
06:13:38 <Quartus> You asked me if I was trying to make you look foolish.  As you were making yourself look foolish, I said that you were doing a fine job of it yourself.  There's a distinction, here; I didn't call you a fool, just said you were making yourself look foolish.
06:14:02 <imaginator> duplicity
06:14:02 <Quartus> But that was nothing compared to the ridiculous behaviour your're exhibiting now!
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06:14:15 <H4ns> \o/
06:14:40 <Quartus> jebus
06:15:35 <Quartus> also I'm not aware that anyone else here respects me :)
06:15:43 <Quartus> hee hee
06:16:03 <H4ns> i just can't stand the whining
06:16:09 <Quartus> yeah.
09:58:17 <gnomon> +1 respect from this quarter.
09:58:19 <gnomon> Just for the record.
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10:18:48 <Quartus__> thanks :)
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13:10:47 --- log: started forth/07.08.06
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13:10:47 --- topic: 'Welcome to #forth. We discuss the Forth programming language and a variety of technical subjects. Introduction and Helpful Reading: http://forthfreak.net/index.cgi?FnFC | ANS/ISO Forth Standard doc: http://tinyurl.com/nx7dx | Gforth compiler: http://tinyurl.com/s8uho | http://quartus.net/search | Paste: http://forth.pastebin.ca | http://angg.twu.net/miniforth-article.html <- due soon. Suggestions? 8-|'
13:10:47 --- topic: set by edrx on [Thu Jul 12 17:04:11 2007]
13:10:47 --- names: list (clog @tathi H4n1 arvenEx H4ns @JasonWoof crest__ @crc TreyB madgarden tlockney Quartus__ mem4tim timlarson Baughn madwork cmeme kc5tja gnomon uiuiu slava32 segher mrsbrisby ccfg @I440r warpzero maht)
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13:19:52 <Quartus__> hey slava
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13:20:00 <slava> hi
13:20:33 <Quartus> how goes it?
13:21:22 <slava> good
13:21:40 <Quartus> :)
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16:35:26 <slava> Quartus__: !!!!
16:36:08 <slava> some pretty bizarre wertys lately.
16:36:23 <rehges> ooh, wertys
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17:21:05 <tnovelli> Hey folks... long time no see :-)
17:24:10 <I440r> tcn!
17:24:20 <I440r> lol 
17:24:28 <I440r> how goes? u get married yet?
17:24:57 <tnovelli> yep
17:25:08 <I440r> lucky bastid :)
17:25:17 <I440r> finish that harpsichord? heh
17:25:22 <tnovelli> heh.. not yet
17:25:26 <I440r> that looks cool from the fotos btw!
17:25:32 <tnovelli> thanks
17:26:26 <tnovelli> one of these days :-)  it's still in one piece, so I guess it's worth finishing
17:26:52 <tnovelli> been on the computer too much though
17:26:59 <I440r> i think its for the wife if i remember rightly... so finishing it will make her happy :)
17:27:07 <I440r> wow your back coding?
17:27:11 <I440r> probably not forth :P
17:27:37 <I440r> still... ur welcome in here :)
17:27:42 <I440r> always
17:27:49 <tnovelli> nope.  Came close to applying for a Forth job though.
17:27:55 <I440r> cool
17:28:39 <tnovelli> the only one i've ever seen ;-)
17:29:35 <I440r> ive seen some :)
17:30:14 <I440r> i started working in arizona, full time job coding stuff for image processing blah blah... cameras and the like
17:30:23 <I440r> quite interesting actually
17:31:21 <I440r> so did u totally lose interest in developing forth stuff?
17:31:32 <I440r> ive not worked much on isforth in ages :/
17:31:34 <tnovelli> oh yeah.. you know it'd be great if there was some orthocorrection software so you could photograph a big sheet of paper and correct every part of it for scale..
17:31:43 <I440r> tho i did write a debugger and some other things
17:32:19 <slava> hi I440r 
17:32:27 <I440r> theres ALOT to know about image processing and ive hardly even scratched the surface
17:32:49 <I440r> white balance, gama correction, color correction, edge detection. etc etc etc
17:32:58 <tnovelli> i haven't done much forth for a few years.  nice to see retro, isforth, etc. still going though.
17:33:01 <I440r> hi slava
17:33:12 <I440r> retro is moving more than isforth heh
17:33:34 <tnovelli> and retro has some offspring? heh
17:34:02 <I440r> did you ? :)
17:34:10 <tnovelli> nope!
17:34:22 <I440r> heh
17:34:51 <tnovelli> and I'm not really ready for that!
17:34:54 <I440r> i saw that x86 assembler you did - i could port it to isforth and use it but the license is pure GPL so i wont touch it
17:35:23 <tnovelli> for forth?
17:35:28 <I440r> thats still the biggest thing missing in isforth and i got a major mental block with it. slava keeps slaping me up side the head about that heh
17:35:29 <I440r> yea
17:35:36 <tnovelli> you sure it's gpl?
17:35:51 <I440r> yes... its based off a GPL assembler and is therefore GPL
17:36:07 <I440r> or is it BSD ?
17:36:10 <I440r> hrm 
17:36:19 <tnovelli> I don't even remember doing it
17:36:59 <I440r> lol
17:37:21 <I440r> u still playing violin?
17:37:21 <tnovelli> I did a forth asm based on Pygmy Forth's assembler, which was Public Domain AFAIK
17:37:24 <tnovelli> yep
17:37:33 <I440r> no its not public domain
17:37:33 <tnovelli> still making guns?
17:37:52 <I440r> still shooting them. only making the grips :)
17:38:12 <I440r> my dad was sporterizing mausers tho
17:38:18 <I440r> i mite do that some time too
17:38:45 <Raystm2> tnovelli hi, You and I have never talked, but I've been aware of you for quite some time. 
17:38:45 <Raystm2> lol I use you're Music page as a link into my new interest for ABC lol
17:39:10 <Raystm2> hi I440r how ya been?
17:39:15 <tnovelli> Heh.. cool.. nice to meet you
17:39:28 <I440r> tired lol long hours and then staying up till 1 am playing WoW haah
17:39:48 <Raystm2> quit it! Nothing good can come of Wow. LOL
17:40:06 <I440r> world of warcrack
17:40:09 <tnovelli> heheh
17:40:12 * Raystm2 has had a sudden reversal of fortune.
17:40:20 <Raystm2> No kidding.
17:40:23 <I440r> the graphics engine blows me away!
17:40:32 <I440r> a good one or a bad one?
17:40:33 <tnovelli> I can't even find the time to do stuff *without* playing video games
17:40:44 <Raystm2> is is available for hacking on, that engine?
17:40:46 <slava> same here
17:40:52 <Raystm2> it*
17:40:56 <tnovelli> could be that I'm married
17:41:02 <I440r> WoW isnt open source :)
17:41:13 <Raystm2> tnovelli, I know you are correct.
17:41:19 <tnovelli> raystm2: what are you doing with ABC?
17:41:21 <Raystm2> okay thanks Mark.
17:42:27 <Raystm2> tnovelli: nothing yet. just reading the BNF for it as I have a project to create a BNF-Toka(ForthLikeLang by crc) and thought it would do nicely.
17:42:53 <I440r> i was working on an arm forth for the nintendo ds but the gizmo i bought to do it with is missing
17:43:02 <I440r> im getting a new gizmo - cheaper one.
17:43:22 <Raystm2> I440r do you ever talk to rabbitwhite about the GameCube forth he did?
17:43:30 <I440r> nope
17:43:30 <tnovelli> I was just skimming through the Toka site
17:43:48 <I440r> at least i dont remember if i did lol
17:43:50 <Raystm2> tnovelli: I like toka. I think crc really has something here.
17:43:54 <I440r> is the cube arm based?
17:44:13 <I440r> wtf is toka lol
17:44:37 <Raystm2> I440r I wouldn't know. But his blog is fairly descriptive about the project.
17:44:40 <tnovelli> crc's new forthlike thing
17:44:50 <Raystm2> toka is a Forth written in C. 
17:45:02 <Raystm2> it has a few differances..
17:45:27 <I440r> aha... ill keep my mouth shut about it then :)
17:45:34 <Raystm2> everything is executed and always leaves an address on the stack when done.
17:45:57 <I440r> i never liked c based forths :/
17:46:27 <Raystm2> a qoute starts an anonimous definition that can be asigned a name thusly...
17:46:59 <tnovelli> does it have continuations? :)
17:47:21 <Raystm2> [ dup swap drop ] is stupid
17:47:35 <Raystm2> tnovelli I believe so.
17:47:54 <Raystm2> or even
17:48:00 <I440r> its a refresh :)
17:48:06 <Raystm2> [ dup swap drop ] is-macro dumb
17:48:09 <I440r> it refreshes the top item of the stack :)
17:48:38 <I440r> i can optimize it!!!!    dup nip
17:48:39 <I440r> :)
17:48:40 <Raystm2> the macro can be used in the 'is' qoute later and is executed on entry.
17:48:44 <Raystm2> lol
17:49:39 <Raystm2> This makes the entire forth language sort of Reverse Polish.
17:50:01 <I440r> ok, im going home :)
17:50:02 <tnovelli> haha
17:50:31 <Raystm2> [ 10 [ this ] iterate ] is execute-this-10
17:51:36 <tnovelli> OK, now I get you Ray... I didn't realize "is stupid" was part of the code
17:52:25 <tnovelli> d'oh :-)
17:52:29 <Raystm2> :)
17:53:06 <tnovelli> Sounds pretty neat
17:53:21 <Raystm2> Tom, about ABC. Have you got to where you can site read and play from it?
17:53:36 <tnovelli> hell no
17:53:40 <Raystm2> :)
17:53:49 <Raystm2> I understand it's doable
17:54:09 <tnovelli> if you don't care about rhythm
17:54:12 <Raystm2> Not that it matters much. run a translator is easier...
17:54:57 <tnovelli> I have managed to do stuff in bass & viola clef.. that was tricky :-)
17:56:10 <tnovelli> When you forget you're in viola clef, everything's off by a 2nd and the result sounds like... Schoenberg
17:56:26 <Raystm2> I have the oppertunity to move to the Denver/Golden Co. area end of the month. They have a very health art world there, with money that flows. I'd like to put together a performance piece that includes music and maybe some computing to accompany.
17:56:39 <Raystm2> rofl.
17:58:26 <Raystm2> I've never gone off of the G. Besides, I normally just so a "Nashvile Numbers" of the tune, which is more descriptive then accurate.
17:58:55 <tnovelli> that ain't so bad
17:59:32 <Raystm2> Viola looks like a C clef but where is it centered?
17:59:42 <tnovelli> Middle C
17:59:51 <Raystm2> oh so it IS the c clef.
18:00:15 <tnovelli> yeah :-)
18:01:14 <Raystm2> ANd that's moveable per instrument, always marking C but putting it at a different line or space for differing instrument ranges?
18:03:07 <tnovelli> I suppose... not sure how ABC handles that issue... I know they moved clefs all over the place back 300 years ago..
18:03:24 <Raystm2> Got cha.
18:04:18 <Raystm2> So, what brings you around #forth today? any new forth work? or arn't you doing Python work now?
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18:05:05 <tnovelli> Just wondered what was happening in IRC, that's all.
18:05:24 <tetonca> ;)
18:05:33 <Raystm2> tnovelli it's been quite for months.
18:05:50 <Raystm2> all the forth channels on FreeNode anyway.
18:05:51 <tetonca> That seems right.
18:06:05 <Raystm2> hi tetonca.
18:06:11 <tnovelli> #tunes is pretty much dead
18:06:13 <tetonca> Hullo.
18:06:16 <tnovelli> hi
18:06:22 <Raystm2> lol i didn't even know about it.
18:06:42 <tnovelli> I've been working on the website for that one
18:06:54 <tetonca> Everyone but Australia in the english-speaking world is basically on summer holiday.
18:07:39 <slava> #concatenative is not dead :)
18:08:03 <Raystm2> d'oh! #concatenative is definately not dead, indeed!.
18:08:16 <Raystm2> most traffic of all the forths, all the time.
18:08:17 <tetonca> What is it?
18:09:04 <slava> its about joy-derived languages, but in practice that means mostly factor, and a bit of enchilada and cat
18:09:06 <Raystm2> It's really should be #factor, but #concatenative is a chat for the language grouping that forth and factor belong.
18:09:19 <slava> the developers of cat and enchilada go there too
18:09:23 <Raystm2> ya.
18:09:34 <tetonca> Thanks.
18:09:41 <tnovelli> have you guys tried factor?
18:09:58 <Raystm2> slava wrote it. He's modest. lol :)
18:10:07 <tetonca> I don't know what it is (besides what to do with forth defintions).
18:10:09 <tnovelli> heh
18:10:12 <Raystm2> It's phenominal. I've not used it.
18:10:20 <slava> tnovelli: http://factorcode.org/
18:10:22 <tetonca> Platform?
18:10:43 <Raystm2> It's a great read tho.
18:11:01 <tnovelli> It's been mentioned on the Tunes mailing list a few times
18:11:40 <tetonca> Thanks for the url slava.
18:12:02 <slava> tnovelli: have you heard about joy?
18:12:30 <tnovelli> slava: yes, but I haven't tried it
18:12:56 * tetonca afk/cooking
18:13:03 * Raystm2 should do the same
18:13:10 * Raystm2 does
18:13:23 <slava> tnovelli: factor is similar to joy but with a bigger library, there's stuff for xml, http, unicode, opengl, etc
18:13:33 <tnovelli> it looks impressive
18:14:03 <slava> there's a simple module system where source files correspond 1-1 with module names, and modules are loaded on demand. in practice this scales well
18:14:26 <tnovelli> like Python :-)
18:14:42 <slava> the data structures are somewhat similar to python. you have arrays, hashtables, queues, etc.
18:15:08 <slava> unlike joy where its mostly just linked lists :)
18:15:53 <tnovelli> static or dynamic?
18:16:09 <slava> dynamic typing with static stack height checking
18:17:56 <slava> most important difference between factor and python: factor's garbage collector is a lot more efficient, and it compiles to native code
18:18:15 <tnovelli> what type of GC?
18:19:01 <tnovelli> I could just read your site :-)
18:19:23 <slava> yes, you could
18:22:18 <tnovelli> I've been studying up on continuation-passing style lately... I imagine you've played with that in factor?
18:29:44 <slava> factor supports continuations: http://factorcode.org/responder/help/show-help?topic=continuations
18:33:55 <tnovelli> Another thing I'm into are parsers... is it easy to add an expression parser, so I could type something like [2+3*x/y^2] in the middle of some FActor code?
18:34:36 <slava> sure, just like you can in forth with immediate words
18:35:24 <tnovelli> i'll have to try it sometime.  Anyone already done it?
18:36:36 <slava> yes, we used to have an infix math library but nobody used it in practice
18:36:40 <slava> as often happens with infix math libraies
18:36:59 <slava> it bitrotted and nobody updated it, so it went away. its still in the vcs, though.
18:37:57 <tnovelli> right.. everyone who wanted it ended up using Python or something ;-)
18:38:37 <slava> the guy who wrote it went on to write libraries which were a lot more useful :)
18:43:30 <Quartus__> hi ray
18:46:45 <Quartus__> et al
18:48:05 <tnovelli> Well, nice talking to you Slava... see you around..
18:54:42 <I440r> nite tcn
18:54:45 <I440r> :)
18:54:52 <tetonca> Hey Mark.
18:55:16 <I440r> lol how come everyone knows my name? lol
18:55:38 <tetonca> It's memorable and you pimp isforth enough that we'd look it up.
18:55:43 <tetonca> It's a good forth.
18:56:26 <tetonca> One of my key pieces of evidence that we are AI sims living in a Matrix is my pediatrician: her name was Doctor Manwell.
18:57:41 <tetonca> I have a small problem with isforth.  I have to type 'hello' twice (or do something else) to (my guess) flush some i/o buffer or it hangs (refuses input).  But not on the original ./isforth, only an fsave'd system.
18:58:09 <tetonca> (Linux x86 version).
19:01:12 <tnovelli> goodnight all..
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19:03:53 <Raystm2> Quartus! hey.
19:04:17 <Raystm2> We're moving! everything must go. Fire sale all this month.
19:04:41 <Raystm2> Nan's company is moving us to Golden/Denver area. 
19:05:07 <Raystm2> She's starting a new market for her company that will include 100+ stores.
19:05:47 <I440r> lol
19:05:59 <I440r> i do not pimp isforth!!! GET ISFORTH!!!! :)
19:06:09 <tetonca> ;
19:06:16 <I440r> oooh 
19:06:16 <tetonca> pizzahands
19:06:26 <I440r> you might have to explain that bug to me in detail
19:06:33 <tetonca> ok
19:07:26 <tetonca> There were no anomalies noted in constructing and executing ./isforth.  None.
19:07:37 <tetonca> So I'd add a new word.
19:07:46 <I440r> ok
19:07:49 <tetonca> Everythings good.  I'd fsave the result to a new forth.
19:07:56 <tetonca> No problem.  Invoke it.  No problem.
19:07:58 <tetonca> Now:
19:08:12 <tetonca> I'd type a couple numbers to enter them on the stack, one per line.
19:08:20 <tetonca> With a kepress of ENTER like you'd do.
19:08:31 <tetonca> The second number would freeze keyboard input.
19:08:44 <tetonca> This is on the invoked new forth, not ./isforth.
19:08:50 <tetonca> Now I experimented.
19:09:00 <tetonca> Found typing 'hello <CR>' twice
19:09:06 <tetonca> usually prevented the bug from manifesting.
19:09:30 <tetonca> It didnt' seem like insurance (I tried scripting the hello's).
19:09:35 <I440r> ok show me the definition of the word that "broke" it
19:09:46 <tetonca> Any definition at all.
19:09:54 <tetonca> : mynamecwh 1 drop ;
19:09:56 <I440r> and does this version of isforth have the command line history
19:10:02 <tetonca> Yes it does.
19:10:08 <I440r> do this
19:10:10 <I440r> ./isforth
19:10:12 <I440r> fsave blah
19:10:20 <I440r> then run ./blah and tell me if thats broken too
19:10:23 <tetonca> ok. hold.
19:10:26 <tetonca> will do.
19:11:52 <tetonca> yep.
19:11:54 <tetonca> same error.
19:12:05 <tetonca> first line of input is accepted. every time. 2nd isn't.
19:12:15 <tetonca> (accepted and presumably acted upon).
19:13:40 <tetonca> I ssh into the DamnSmallLinux machine to access isforth, in a Linux 2.4.26 environment, from Mac OS X 10.3 Terminal.app told to behave as rxvt.
19:14:01 <Quartus__> sounds exciting, ray!
19:14:30 <tetonca> SCREEN is the immediate environment, and runs other tty-based apps in a well-behaved way.
19:14:33 <I440r> ok... do a build of isforth WITHOUT the command line history stuff... if you can figure out how
19:14:46 <I440r> edit src/isforth.f and comment out eh command line history and reextend
19:14:54 <tetonca> I can do that no problem.
19:14:57 <I440r> if that fails comment out the file that depends on history
19:15:08 <I440r> then run the above experiment again :)
19:15:11 <tetonca> You did a good job on making the source readable to humans studying it.
19:15:22 <I440r> that was a prime directive
19:15:31 <tetonca> Alright I'll play with that and get back to you next time we speak.
19:16:18 <I440r> ok
19:16:30 <tetonca> One comment: my ciforth source had to go all lower-case to run on isforth, but otherwise ran unmodified (except obvious things like do/loop adaptation).
19:16:35 <I440r> im thinking its in the command line history because thats the newest thing added to the terminal input routines
19:16:48 <I440r> ]
19:16:58 <tetonca> That makes sense to me.  It feels like it's on that level.
19:17:02 <I440r> oh thers a variable that you can set to make isforth NON case sensatve
19:17:04 <tetonca> Don't ask me how I sense that.
19:17:36 <tetonca> Cool -- wasn't too annoying as I dislike ALL CAPS definitions anyway.
19:17:52 <I440r> as soon as you described the problem i suspected the history code - maybe it glitches after a turnkey.... im not sure how but if it proves to be the problem ill be able to fix it :)
19:18:21 <I440r> or you can maybe even fix it and ill credit you with finding and fixing it :)
19:18:26 <I440r> your name in lights!
19:18:36 <tetonca> Sure!  It's a wanted feature.  Was going to code it if it wasn't there (target platform is Firmware Linux which is uClib-based and no libreadline available).
19:19:20 <I440r> :)
19:19:38 <I440r> doing line editing was next on my todo list because i want a block file editor to write all the HELP stuff in
19:19:54 <I440r> help blah-word would display the block of text associated with that word
19:20:08 <I440r> im also thinking of adding view fields to the headers
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19:20:20 <Raystm2> Thanks Quartus. Not sure what _I_ will do for a living yet, but I'm excited to live in one of the healthies, most technolically savy populations in the US.
19:20:40 <I440r> ray wheres that?
19:20:43 <Quartus__> sure, it's a good city
19:22:55 <tetonca> I lived in Denver .. twice.
19:23:04 <tetonca> Be sure to visit Boulder early on.
19:23:16 <tetonca> A city bus goes there -- don't have to drive.
19:23:28 <tetonca> It was a bit like Cambridge MA there when I was there.
19:27:15 <Raystm2> lol i'm from Ma. Will do go see Boulder. Fortunately I have family, a brother and his , and  a sister and hers, that both live in CoSprings.
19:28:51 <Raystm2> My children are mostly grown and one of the three is not going with us. the other two will be in nest jumping age over the next 5 years... Nan and I are going to be under 50 and foot loose and fancy free lol
19:30:50 <tetonca> Heheh.  I was a toddler just outside the campus of Smith College in Northampton.  My grandmother taught gradeschool there for I dunno 40-50 yrs maybe.
19:36:27 <Raystm2> cool, I'm from Webster, just north of the Conn/RI tri-state boarder. Currently residing in Fort Worth Texas low these last 20 years.
19:37:19 <tetonca> I440r: that fixes it -- commenting out the src/ext/history.f masks the bug (omits the buggy code).
19:37:33 <Raystm2> The move timing couldn't be better. I lost my ability to keep a resonable job, so our house is going into foreclosure on Tuesday. 
19:37:48 <tetonca> I'm in Torrington CT.
19:37:54 <Raystm2> We will squat here till the end of the month, selling everything we can, then make the move.
19:38:09 <tetonca> Wow.
19:38:38 <Raystm2> The company will give Nan like 5grand to make the move... so far I see it costing us under a grand to get there, freight and all.
19:38:50 <tetonca> You had an ability to keep a reasonable job?  _wow_.  I've never had that. (serious)
19:38:56 <Raystm2> lol
19:41:33 <tetonca> I440r: this is good since ciforth has on occasion crashed linux.  isforth has yet to bestow that honour on itself here.
19:41:52 <tetonca> He might just have a new customer.
19:42:32 <tetonca> Acid test will be if it runs on Firmware Linux (from Rob Landley: landley.net).
19:43:45 <tetonca> Should.  Since isforth 'is not a dynamic executable' according to 'ldd ./isforth'.
19:45:06 <tetonca> Then I can port AMRForth v7 to it and have a completely quiet development environment (on the Mini ITX) running on a ramdisk in a chroot jail. ;)
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